[__ Science __ ] The computer programmer speaks under oath

[PeterJens]

RACINE COUNTY – The Racine County Sheriff’s Office referred election fraud charges Wednesday to the Racine County District Attorney’s Office against five members of theWisconsin Elections Commission.

Commissioners Margaret Bostelmann, Julie Glancey, Ann Jacobs, Dean Knudson, and Mark Thomsen were all named, but they have not formally been charged. Referrals for charging have been submitted to the Racine County District Attorney’s Office for:

• Misconduct in Public Office (Felony)
• Election Fraud – Election Official Assisting with Violation (Felony)
• Party to the Crime of Election Fraud – Receive Ballot Non-Election Official (Misdemeanor)
• Party to the Crime of Election Fraud – Illegal Ballot Receipt (Misdemeanor)
• Party to the Crime of Election Fraud – Solicit Assistance (Misdemeanor)

Election fraud charges sought against 5 Wisconsin Election Commission members | Racine County Eye

The Racine County Sheriff’s Office referred criminal charges against five commissioners with the Wisconsin Elections Commission for election fraud.

racinecountyeye.com

JLB

The problem I have with the whole argument is at two levels. In every election there are individual cases of fraud, people voting who should not have voted etc.

The second level is for one group to swing an election it needs a concerted effort with a team of people acting without detection at a scale that matters. This kind of attempt like stuffing ballots when not monitored etc. is already countered by current procedures. To swing an election over many states requires an even bigger effort and conspiracy. Nothing has been discovered that shows this level of conspiracy and effort.

The argument that foreigners and dead people voted who should not, can be put because the voting records are not necessarily up to date or fully correct, but that does not mean this is anything than an administration failure.

Russia, China etc. want to undermine democracy, destroy the trust of the people, make themselves look justified and the democratic rule corrupt. Ironically a democratic system has checks and balances, their system has prison and the secret police and torture. Because the press in censored, they claim they are clean, while running a monster of a system. For all its failures, the freedom to shout and point out failures is the most valuable thing we have, and the strength of our system, as long as the point being made will be resolved and put to bed when evidence is shown or not as the case maybe.

The problem in the current case, is the evidence is being held on to without proof or bringing it within the court system. It is no surprise that without economic stability and reasonable communication, a country can fall into dictatorship one way or another.

God bless you

 

[JLB]

In every election there are individual cases of fraud, people voting who should not have voted etc.

I know in this election it was caught and it was enough to overturn the legitimate winner, so that the other person won.




JLB

 

[PeterJens]

I know in this election it was caught and it was enough to overturn the legitimate winner, so that the other person won.




JLB

I deal with financial product projections. I know the complexity of adding up the numbers, of checking that everything makes sense with rows and rows of data. The numbers are so vast you have to build two systems to cross check each other and create benchmarks which demonstrate whether things are behaving correctly. Only when everything passes do you know you have got the right answer.

Sadly I know many times I have been certain I got it right, only to discover I got it wrong.

Elections are a similar operation with millions of people involved, thousands counting, checks happening at many levels. In the end one has to rely on the professionals and their systems to confirm the result was as expected.

It is easy on the outside to say fraud, and it is very expensive to check and confirm whether this is a valid call or not. So I have a problem. After 100's of years of holding elections, of putting in checks and balances, of peoples jobs and professionalism being on the line, now in 2020, a fraud has occurred that is unique and different. And it is so different when recounts have been done, even by people who believed there was a fraud, it was not found.

Factual emotional conviction that a fraud took place does not make it so. We rely on our convictions to tell us outcomes and reality. But unfortunately if we trip over into a conviction because we want it to be true, because the opposite is too difficult for us to face, it does not make it true. Now I do not know what took place other than what the officials have declared and the courts have confirmed as a result of investigations. To date the answer is a fair election and no fraud.

One main issue that has split the USA is the losing matters so much, no matter if it may be true, some want to make it a victory. This is where civil wars come from, because the argument is not who won and lost, but who one wants in power and who is totally unacceptable to the point of using force of arms. I personally believe the outcomes show the choices the people will make in the future.

God bless you

 

[JLB]

I deal with financial product projections. I know the complexity of adding up the numbers, of checking that everything makes sense with rows and rows of data. The numbers are so vast you have to build two systems to cross check each other and create benchmarks which demonstrate whether things are behaving correctly. Only when everything passes do you know you have got the right answer.

Sadly I know many times I have been certain I got it right, only to discover I got it wrong.

Elections are a similar operation with millions of people involved, thousands counting, checks happening at many levels. In the end one has to rely on the professionals and their systems to confirm the result was as expected.

It is easy on the outside to say fraud, and it is very expensive to check and confirm whether this is a valid call or not. So I have a problem. After 100's of years of holding elections, of putting in checks and balances, of peoples jobs and professionalism being on the line, now in 2020, a fraud has occurred that is unique and different. And it is so different when recounts have been done, even by people who believed there was a fraud, it was not found.

Factual emotional conviction that a fraud took place does not make it so. We rely on our convictions to tell us outcomes and reality. But unfortunately if we trip over into a conviction because we want it to be true, because the opposite is too difficult for us to face, it does not make it true. Now I do not know what took place other than what the officials have declared and the courts have confirmed as a result of investigations. To date the answer is a fair election and no fraud.

One main issue that has split the USA is the losing matters so much, no matter if it may be true, some want to make it a victory. This is where civil wars come from, because the argument is not who won and lost, but who one wants in power and who is totally unacceptable to the point of using force of arms. I personally believe the outcomes show the choices the people will make in the future.

God bless you

When there are hundreds of thousands of votes that are found to be illegitimate in multiple states, where the margin of victory was 10,000 then there is serious cause for concern.



JLB

 

[JLB]

 

[jaybo]

I agree. There were ballots that were turned in by non residents, dead people, ghost ballots, people who voted more than once, illegal aliens voting as well as counterfeit ballots.

All in all, there was over a 100,000 ballots that were counted for Biden that were not eligible

The margin of victory being less than 20,000.




The States that have experienced these things need to decertify their election.




JLB

Even if there is evidence about the (supposedly) counterfeit ballots, the election happened more than a year ago and Joe Biden is President. As we well remember about January 6, the voters elect representatives who cast the actual votes to elect the President (even if they're attacked by a vicious mob).

1) The election is long over.
2) Some Republicans fail to realize that if the (supposedly) fraudulent ballots are rejected, their names on on them also. If they invalidate those votes, then they can no longer hold office.

 

[jaybo]

I know in this election it was caught and it was enough to overturn the legitimate winner, so that the other person won.




JLB

To what are you actually referring?

 

[JLB]

Even if there is evidence about the (supposedly) counterfeit ballots, the election happened more than a year ago and Joe Biden is President. As we well remember about January 6, the voters elect representatives who cast the actual votes to elect the President (even if they're attacked by a vicious mob).

1) The election is long over.
2) Some Republicans fail to realize that if the (supposedly) fraudulent ballots are rejected, their names on on them also. If they invalidate those votes, then they can no longer hold office.

Yes the election is over. We agree.

 

[JLB]

To what are you actually referring?

The 2020 election.

 

[jasonc]

Even if there is evidence about the (supposedly) counterfeit ballots, the election happened more than a year ago and Joe Biden is President. As we well remember about January 6, the voters elect representatives who cast the actual votes to elect the President (even if they're attacked by a vicious mob).

1) The election is long over.
2) Some Republicans fail to realize that if the (supposedly) fraudulent ballots are rejected, their names on on them also. If they invalidate those votes, then they can no longer hold office.

Yup and will never actually do that as it would hurt their party .gotta love this game

We only care if it means we hold office in the end

 

[PeterJens]

Even if there is evidence about the (supposedly) counterfeit ballots, the election happened more than a year ago and Joe Biden is President. As we well remember about January 6, the voters elect representatives who cast the actual votes to elect the President (even if they're attacked by a vicious mob).

1) The election is long over.
2) Some Republicans fail to realize that if the (supposedly) fraudulent ballots are rejected, their names on on them also. If they invalidate those votes, then they can no longer hold office.

This is a curious reality. If the vote for Biden was fake, and the vote for republican congress representatives is true, how can you distinguish between the two. It is literally absurd because it is all false or all true.

The mathematics of how this works out has not really been gone through or properly shown how absurd the outcome would become. I refrain from saying people find it hard to grasp these facts and how these issues are all interwoven, but it emphasises you got to trust the professionals.

I am sympathetic that science and experts have become the automatic sources of truth, without admitting the limitations of points of view and judgements. Simply removing industries and peoples purpose in work, and then blandly stating that is business and technology does not address the problems or needs involved. The experts said the war on terror would work, the war in Afghanistan was worthwhile, Iraq would lead to the liberation of its people. The experts said drugs would be contained yet big pharma helped addiction to opiates take off, and who is pushing vaccines? I see why people now want to challenge it all, drain the swamp etc.

Problem is this is a systemic social and political problem, with focused effort and pressure needed to adjust, not just Trump claiming fraud. Until proper answers come, a large part of the electorate are starting to shout foul. And history shows us unless truth and addressing the issues, the lies grow and get more aggressive.

 

[Barbarian]

RACINE COUNTY – The Racine County Sheriff’s Office referred election fraud charges Wednesday to the Racine County District Attorney’s Office against five members of theWisconsin Elections Commission.

The sheriff was infuriated that a number of legally-qualified voters in a nursing home were allowed to vote in spite of COVID-19 restrictions. The Racine County DA has declined to take action against commissioners who helped the legally-qualified voters vote.

Schmaling last week called on Dem AG Josh Kaul to open an investigation into what he details in the department’s investigation. Schmaling said in yesterday’s release he forwarded the charging recommendation because Kaul failed to heed his call.

Kaul called the Racine County sheriff’s charging recommendations a “disgraceful publicity stunt” that shows an “appalling lack of judgment.”

“This is a transparently political effort and an abuse of authority,” he added.

The department is recommending Dem members Ann Jacobs, Mark Thomsen and Julie Glancey and GOP members Marge Bostelmann and Dean Knudson face felony charges of misconduct in office and election fraud. The department is also recommending three misdemeanors for being party to the crime of election fraud.

Yesterday’s statement didn’t include any details specific to each charge. Instead, it referred to last week’s presentation, saying the reasons were clearly explained then.
https://www.wispolitics.com/2021/ra...against-five-members-of-elections-commission/

Only a full-blown Trump fanatic would be angered by allowing legally-qualified voters to vote. And that's what this wretch did.

 

[Barbarian]

This is a curious reality. If the vote for Biden was fake, and the vote for republican congress representatives is true, how can you distinguish between the two. It is literally absurd because it is all false or all true.

You're confusing them with logic.

 

[PeterJens]

Only a full-blown Trump fanatic would be angered by allowing legally-qualified voters to vote. And that's what this wretch did.

My jaw hit the floor. Helping someone who is allowed to vote vote is wrong.
And the accuser of bad behaviour is a sheriff there to uphold the law.

Now my mother who lives in a care home is allowed to vote, and come rain or shine she would vote for one party alone. She does not know their current positions or understand the arguments, but legally she is allowed to vote.

I actually think this is absurd, as I have legal power over her because she cannot make decisions for herself, which should actually mean she is not able to vote, so I can see how people could feel this is unfair. In a democracy though you use the legislators to change the law to represent something sensible. And being honest, if my mother was able to know the argument, she would still vote the same.

Ironically the older folk tend to become more conservative in old age, so thinking getting people in care homes to vote will favour democrates is a little absurd. Or maybe it is known the republicans tend not to live as long, lol (joke) I have no clue but imagine if this was true.

 

[Barbarian]

My jaw hit the floor. Helping someone who is allowed to vote vote is wrong.
And the accuser of bad behaviour is a sheriff there to uphold the law.

Yeah, he overplayed his hand. You see, republicans are well aware that a large turnout of voters tends to be really bad for them.

Some republicans, rather irrationally, then figure the key to winning is to keep as many people from voting as possible.

 

[JLB]

Yeah, he overplayed his hand. You see, republicans are well aware that a large turnout of voters tends to be really bad for them.

Some republicans, rather irrationally, then figure the key to winning is to keep as many people from voting as possible.

Actually Republicans desire to see large voter turnout.

What we don't want is voters who are illegal aliens, as well as illegitimate voters who are residents of other states to vote. This and many things have been discovered in the ongoing audits of several states.


New York City becomes the largest municipality in the U.S. to allow noncitizens to vote in local elections -
The Washington Post

https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/new-york-noncitizen-voting/2021/12/09/b9ef5748-5848-11ec-a808-3197a22b19fa_story.h

JLB

 

[Barbarian]

Actually Republicans desire to see large voter turnout.

Not according to Trump. He says that if we get large turnouts no republican will ever be elected again.

Republicans, for their part, have also spent the last 20 years believing that high turnout and immigration rates hurt the GOP. Last year, then-President Donald Trump warned that high voter turnout would doom Republicans.

Democrats and Republicans agree that high turnout hurts the GOP. But what if they're wrong?

Not according to republican conservatives:

‘I Don’t Want Everybody to Vote’ – The Roots of GOP Voter Suppression ​

'I Don't Want Everybody to Vote' – The Roots of GOP Voter Suppression | Right Wing Watch

The lower the turnout tomorrow, the better Mitt Romney will do. It’s always been this way for Republicans. Anyone who doubts that needs to watch the video

www.rightwingwatch.org

What we don't want is voters who are illegal aliens, as well as illegitimate voters who are residents of other states to vote. This and many things have been discovered in the ongoing audits of several states.

Show us the findings and the numbers, and show that they would have changed the election. Checkable sources. What do you have?

New York City becomes the largest municipality in the U.S. to allow noncitizens to vote in local elections -

Yes, that's legal under the law. Used to be that way in a lot of states that allowed residents to vote, even if they weren't citizens. America used to be more civilized and less tribal.

If the people of New York City vote for it, then it's their call.

 

[JLB]

Not according to Trump. He says that if we get large turnouts no republican will ever be elected again.

Republicans, for their part, have also spent the last 20 years believing that high turnout and immigration rates hurt the GOP. Last year, then-President Donald Trump warned that high voter turnout would doom Republicans.

Democrats and Republicans agree that high turnout hurts the GOP. But what if they're wrong?

Not according to republican conservatives:

‘I Don’t Want Everybody to Vote’ – The Roots of GOP Voter Suppression ​

'I Don't Want Everybody to Vote' – The Roots of GOP Voter Suppression | Right Wing Watch

The lower the turnout tomorrow, the better Mitt Romney will do. It’s always been this way for Republicans. Anyone who doubts that needs to watch the video

www.rightwingwatch.org

Show us the findings and the numbers, and show that they would have changed the election. Checkable sources. What do you have?


Yes, that's legal under the law. Used to be that way in a lot of states that allowed residents to vote, even if they weren't citizens. America used to be more civilized and less tribal.

If the people of New York City vote for it, then it's their call.

New York City becomes the largest municipality in the U.S. to allow noncitizens to vote in local elections -
The Washington Post

https://www.washingtonpost.com/immi.../b9ef5748-5848-11ec-a808-3197a22b19fa_story.h



Do you want to see laws passed like they did in New York, where illegal aliens who are in this country illegally are eligible to vote?


Do you believe is right for America?





JLB

 

[JLB]

Yes, that's legal under the law. Used to be that way in a lot of states that allowed residents to vote, even if they weren't citizens. America used to be more civilized and less tribal.

I would like to see the proof of that... Where states used to allow illegal aliens to vote. If that is true then why do we have voter registration and ID’s?


You statement makes no sense.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Not according to republican conservatives:

‘I Don’t Want Everybody to Vote’ – The Roots of GOP Voter Suppression ​

'I Don't Want Everybody to Vote' – The Roots of GOP Voter Suppression | Right Wing Watch

The lower the turnout tomorrow, the better Mitt Romney will do. It’s always been this way for Republicans. Anyone who doubts that needs to watch the video

www.rightwingwatch.org

This is an article written in 2012 by a columnist that hates Republicans.

This doesn’t reflect what all Conservatives believe.




You will have to do better than that.




JLB