The Cross Is From Paganism

[CherubRam]

The Mark Of Forgiveness.

The mark of forgiveness was a single charcoal line placed upon the forehead; it was given by the priest to let the people know that the person had been forgiven.
The pole Moses made to hang the serpent was not a cross either, it was a single pole. The charcoal mark is symbolic of that pole Moses made. Christ was hung on a single pole, not a cross.

Ezekiel 9:4
and said to him, “Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it.”

Ezekiel 9:6
Slaughter the old men, the young men and women, the mothers and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary.” So they began with the old men who were in front of the temple.

In order to fulfill prophecy the Messiah had to die on a (stake or pole.)


Pope Gregory and Paganism.

The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: “You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.”

Pope Gregory 540 – 12 March 604.

Not only were the Congregations divided by Gnosticism, but enticed by philosophy and paganism also, and there were geographic divisions as well.

What were the Pagan beliefs harmonized with Christianity? The answer can be found by comparing Orthodox Judaism to Paganism.

 

[Free]

Numbers 21:8 is a scripture you posted ,and you don't know any thing about it ? you don't know what happen to it?

I might have quoted it, but I certainly didn't post it otherwise.

 

[CherubRam]

Numbers 21:8​

8. The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.”



Deuteronomy 21:23
you must not leave the body hanging on the pole overnight. Be sure to bury it that same day, because anyone who is hung on a pole is under God’s curse. You must not desecrate the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance.

Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”

 

[D-D-W]

This is the most ancient sign of the early christian community:

 

[CherubRam]

This is the most ancient sign of the early christian community:

View attachment 17369

The first Messianic seals were five point stars, and at a later date they became six point stars, meaning that Gnostic's had a hand in it. An upright five point star is symbolic of an upright man. (Christ) The six point star is Pagan.

The seven lamp candelabra is parabolic of the seven congregations in the last days, where as one lamp stick is removed. And it will be said that the seventh lamp congregation is in heaven.

Revelation 1:19-20.
“Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. The mystery of the Seven Stars that you saw in my right hand and of the Seven Golden Lampsticks is this: The Seven Stars are the messengers of the Seven Congregations, and the Seven Lampsticks are the Seven Congregations.

 

[Barbarian]

Pope's title

VICARIUS FILII DEI​

Pope's actual title:
Summus Pontifex Ecclesiae Universalis

Your title came from an infamous forgery....
Vicarius Filii Dei is a Latin phrase that translates to "Vicar of the Son of God". It was first used in a forged document, the Donation of Constantine, to refer to Saint Peter, the first Pope in the Catholic Church.

VICARIUS FILII DEI - Google Search

 

[Barbarian]

BTW, a very early Christian symbol, used among the first Christians who met in homes, was a deer.

Psalm 42:1 As the deer pants for streams of water, so my soul pants for you, O God. My soul thirsts for God, for the living God. When can I go and meet with God?

From the Narthex of St. Mary's Church, Altus Arkansas:

In the 1800s, they brought the materials to build the church up the mountain by mule train. Many of the descendants of the builders still worship there.

Example from 4th century Christian Basilica:

Archaeology, bird, doves sitting on branch, deer, fish, shepherd, Christian symbols, mosaic, early Christian floor mosaic, Basilica of Santa Maria Stock Photo - Alamy

Download this stock image: Archaeology, bird, doves sitting on branch, deer, fish, shepherd, Christian symbols, mosaic, early Christian floor mosaic, Basilica of Santa Maria - 2HJ30DR from Alamy's library of millions of high resolution stock photos, illustrations and vectors.

www.alamy.com

 

[Barbarian]

The fish symbolizes Jesus because the Greek ιχθύς (icthys, fish) is an acronym for "Iesous Christos Theou Yios Soter" (Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior).

 

[CherubRam]

Since my answers are being deleted there is no point in talking.

 

[Free]

Since my answers are being deleted there is no point in talking.

The topic is: The Cross Is From Paganism, not Catholicism.

 

[CherubRam]

The topic is: The Cross Is From Paganism, not Catholicism.

The "cross" was introduced by the Pagan Catholics. In fulfillment of Moses prophecy Christ was hung on a (stake / poll.)
Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”

Pope Gregory and Paganism.
The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: “You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.”
Pope Gregory 540 – 12 March 604.

Not only were the Congregations divided by Gnosticism, but enticed by philosophy and paganism also, and there were geographic divisions as well.

What were the Pagan beliefs harmonized with Christianity? The answer can be found by comparing Orthodox Judaism to Paganism.


Mysticism, Paganism, and Gnosticism are all human traditions.

The Pagan Christians killed off the real Christians, and then they proclaimed to be the true Christians.

Enoch 89:5. I also cried out, and groaned in my sleep against the shepherd which overlooked the flock. 6. And I looked, while the sheep were eaten up by the dogs, by the eagles, and by the kites. They neither left them their body, nor their skin, nor their muscles, until their bones alone remained; and until their bones fell
upon the ground. And the sheep became very few.


Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.


Colossians 2:20
Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules:

 

[Free]

The "cross" was introduced by the Pagan Catholics. In fulfillment of Moses prophecy Christ was hung on a (stake / poll.)
Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”

Pope Gregory and Paganism.
The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: “You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.”
Pope Gregory 540 – 12 March 604.

Not only were the Congregations divided by Gnosticism, but enticed by philosophy and paganism also, and there were geographic divisions as well.

What were the Pagan beliefs harmonized with Christianity? The answer can be found by comparing Orthodox Judaism to Paganism.


Mysticism, Paganism, and Gnosticism are all human traditions.

The Pagan Christians killed off the real Christians, and then they proclaimed to be the true Christians.

Enoch 89:5. I also cried out, and groaned in my sleep against the shepherd which overlooked the flock. 6. And I looked, while the sheep were eaten up by the dogs, by the eagles, and by the kites. They neither left them their body, nor their skin, nor their muscles, until their bones alone remained; and until their bones fell
upon the ground. And the sheep became very few.


Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.


Colossians 2:20
Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules:

Here is what it all comes down to:

1. You have no evidence for 'The "cross" was introduced by the Pagan Catholics,' or that 'In fulfillment of Moses prophecy Christ was hung on a (stake / poll.),' or that 'The cross is the mark of the (Beast / Nation.)'
2. While the NT isn't clear on whether it was a pole or a cross, the evidence, as I have given in this thread, suggests a cross.
3. You claim the cross is pagan, because, well, no one knows. You keep calling it pagan without explaining how it is pagan.
4. Ultimately, as I stated previously: The use of "pole" is not relevant. It isn't even relevant whether it's "pole" or "cross." Your argument misses the importance of the penal substitutionary atonement of Christ for our sins. The point is, he died on a tree (wood) for our sins and was raised again.

 

[CherubRam]

Here is what it all comes down to:

1. You have no evidence for 'The "cross" was introduced by the Pagan Catholics,' or that 'In fulfillment of Moses prophecy Christ was hung on a (stake / poll.),' or that 'The cross is the mark of the (Beast / Nation.)'
2. While the NT isn't clear on whether it was a pole or a cross, the evidence, as I have given in this thread, suggests a cross.
3. You claim the cross is pagan, because, well, no one knows. You keep calling it pagan without explaining how it is pagan.
4. Ultimately, as I stated previously: The use of "pole" is not relevant. It isn't even relevant whether it's "pole" or "cross." Your argument misses the importance of the penal substitutionary atonement of Christ for our sins. The point is, he died on a tree (wood) for our sins and was raised again.

The Mark Of Forgiveness.


The mark of forgiveness was a single charcoal line placed upon the forehead; it was given by the priest to let the people know that the person had been forgiven.

The pole Moses made to hang the serpent was not a cross either, it was a single pole. The charcoal mark is symbolic of that pole Moses made. Christ was hung on a single pole, not a cross.


Ezekiel 9:4
and said to him, “Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it.”


Ezekiel 9:6
Slaughter the old men, the young men and women, the mothers and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary.” So they began with the old men who were in front of the temple.


The word for mark is Tau, the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet.


This is the Hebrew word for cross: לַחֲצוֹת



Deuteronomy 21:23
you must not leave the body hanging on the pole overnight. Be sure to bury it that same day, because anyone who is hung on a pole is under God’s curse. You must not desecrate the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance.


1 Corinthians 1:23. NIV
23 but we preach Christ [crucified / staked out] a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,


Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”


Acts 5:30
The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.


Acts 10:39
And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:


Origin of the word crux. Latin for: stake, scaffold, or cross, used in executions or torment.

The English term "cross" is derived from the Latin word crux. From about 1635 to 1645 AD.


Labarum
An upright pole with cross section to display a standard such as a flag, banner, or emblem.


Word Origin
From Late Latin, and of obscure origin

This standard was known by the name "labarum"—a word the etymology of which is very uncertain. The etymology of the word is unclear. Some derive it from Latin /labāre/ "to totter, or to waver." The labarum was also used to hold the ancient Babylonian sky-god emblem.


Patibulum
It is a establish fact that the two-beamed cross was in existence in the time of Yahshua, and that the word crux was used to refer to it. The crux was composed of two main pieces: The stipes, which is the upright pole, and the patibulum attached to it. The patibulum is the cross beam.


Stipe
Stipe is an upright support.
From Latin stipes "log, post, tree trunk"


Stauros
Stauros (σταυρός) is the Greek word for stake or post.





Dr. Bullinger, The Companion Bible, appx. 162 states, "crosses were used as symbols of the Babylonian Sun-god...It should be stated that Constantine was a Sun-god worshipper...The evidence is thus complete, that the Lord was put to death upon and upright stake, and not on two pieces of timber placed at any angle."

Rev. Alexander Hislop, The Two Babylons, pp. 197-205, frankly calls the cross "this Pagan symbol...the Tau, the sign of the cross, the indisputable sign of Tammuz, the false Messiah...the mystic Tau of the Chaldeans (Babylonians) and Egyptians--the true original form of the letter T--the initial of the name of Tammus...the Babylonian cross was the recognized emblem of Tammuz."

In the Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th edition, vol. 14, p. 273, we read, "In the Egyptian churches the cross was a pagan symbol of life borrowed by the Christians and interpreted in the pagan manner." Jacob Grimm, in his Deutsche Mythologie, says that the Teutonic (Germanic) tribes had their idol Thor, symbolised by a hammer, while the Roman Christians had their crux (cross). It was thus somewhat easier for the Teutons to accept the Roman cross.

Greek dictionaries, lexicons and other study books also declare the primary meaning of stauros to be an upright pale, pole or stake. The secondary meaning of "cross" is admitted by them to be a "later" rendering. At least two of them do not even mention "cross," and only render the meaning as "pole or stake." In spite of this strong evidence and proof that the word stauos should have been translated "stake," and the verb stauroo to have been translated "impale," almost all the common versions of the Scriptures persist with the Latin Vulgate's crux (cross), a "later" rendering of the Greek stauros.


In the book of Johannes Geffcken, The Last Days of Greco-Roman Paganism. p. 319, "that even after 314 A.D. the coins of Constantine show an even-armed cross as a symbol for the Sun-god."


The New Strong's Concise Concordance & Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible states that the meaning of "stauros (4716) denotes, primarily , "an upright pale or stake." On such malefactors were nailed for execution. Both the noun and the verb stauroo, "to fasten to a stake or pale," are originally to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed "cross." The shape of the latter had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the initial of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt. By the middle of the 3rd cent. A.D. the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the cross-piece lowered, was adopted to stand for the "cross" of Christ."(Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible, pg 75, 1999 edition)


"Cross" and "Crucify" are nowhere to be found in the Greek of the New Testament. The word "Cross and Crucify" were adopted at a later date. "Cross" and "Crucify" are nowhere to be found in the Greek New Testament.


Stauroo
stauroó: to stake out.

Original Word: σταυρόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: stauroó
Phonetic Spelling: (stow-ro'-o)
Definition: To fix to a stake; fig: To destroy, or mortify.


Stauros
stauros: an upright stake.

Original Word: σταυρός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: stauros
Phonetic Spelling: (stow-ros')
Definition: a stake.

The words Cross and Crucify were added to the bible and dictionaries to satisfy the Catholics.

Homeric and classical Greek
In Homeric and classical Greek, stauros meant an upright stake, pole, or piece of paling, upon which anything might be hung.

In the literature of that time, it never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle, but always one piece alone.

Koine Greek
In Koine Greek, the form of Greek used between about 300 BC and AD 300, the word σταυρός (Stauros) was used to denote a structure on which the Romans executed criminals. In the writings of the Diodorus Siculus (1st century BC), Plutarch and Lucian – non-Christian writers, of whom only Lucian makes clear the shape of the device – the word stauros is generally translated as "stake."

In regards to the word “cross.”Scholars do not always tell the truth, wither on purposes or accidental. It is wise to get all sides of a story, always.

 

[Barbarian]

The word for mark is Tau, the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet.

It's the 19th letter of the Greek alphabet.

 

[CherubRam]

A mark
Genesis 4:15
But the Lord said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him.

The mark of forgiveness on Cain’s head by Yahwah is prophetic of Moses pole, Ezekiel’s prophecy, and Yahshua being hung on a stake.

Pole
Numbers 21:8
The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.”

Numbers 21:9
So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.

The snake on the pole is parabolic for Christ being a sin offering hung on a pole.


Constantine's cross
According to Constantine's biographer Eusebius, Constantine saw a cross of light in the sky, along with the words “In this sign conquer.” The emperor marked the symbol of the cross on his soldiers' shields.

The Council of Nicea
The Council of Nicea in 325 AD is generally considered to be when the 40-day period of Lent was formalized. The fifth canon of the council referred to the period of preparation for Easter as tessarakonta, which is Greek for "forty".

Pope Gregory I
In 601 AD, Pope Gregory I set the start of Lent as 46 days before Easter and established Ash Wednesday. He also introduced the tradition of marking foreheads with ashes in the shape of a cross.

An ash cross on the forehead, or an "ash cross on the right hand" refers to the practice of marking a cross shape on the back of one's right hand with ashes, typically done on Ash Wednesday in Catholic traditions.

Revelation 13:16
It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,...

 

[Barbarian]

Pope Gregory and Paganism.

The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: “You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.”
Pope Gregory 540 – 12 March 604.

Luke 10:36 ;“Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?” 37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.” Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, who have not the law, do by nature those things that are of the law; these having not the law are a law to themselves:

and...

...Men expect from the various religions answers to the unsolved riddles of the human condition, which today, even as in former times, deeply stir the hearts of men: What is man? What is the meaning, the aim of our life? What is moral good, what is sin? Whence suffering and what purpose does it serve? Which is the road to true happiness? What are death, judgment and retribution after death? What, finally, is that ultimate inexpressible mystery which encompasses our existence: whence do we come, and where are we going?

2. From ancient times down to the present, there is found among various peoples a certain perception of that hidden power which hovers over the course of things and over the events of human history; at times some indeed have come to the recognition of a Supreme Being, or even of a Father. This perception and recognition penetrates their lives with a profound religious sense.

Religions, however, that are bound up with an advanced culture have struggled to answer the same questions by means of more refined concepts and a more developed language. Thus in Hinduism, men contemplate the divine mystery and express it through an inexhaustible abundance of myths and through searching philosophical inquiry. They seek freedom from the anguish of our human condition either through ascetical practices or profound meditation or a flight to God with love and trust. Again, Buddhism, in its various forms, realizes the radical insufficiency of this changeable world; it teaches a way by which men, in a devout and confident spirit, may be able either to acquire the state of perfect liberation, or attain, by their own efforts or through higher help, supreme illumination. Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing "ways," comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ "the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.(4)...

From:
DECLARATION ON
THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS
NOSTRA AETATE
PROCLAIMED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON OCTOBER 28, 1965

 

[locust]

Revelation 18:4
Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “‘Come out of her, my people,’ so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;

 

[CherubRam]

Luke 10:36 ;“Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?” 37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.” Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, who have not the law, do by nature those things that are of the law; these having not the law are a law to themselves:

and...

...Men expect from the various religions answers to the unsolved riddles of the human condition, which today, even as in former times, deeply stir the hearts of men: What is man? What is the meaning, the aim of our life? What is moral good, what is sin? Whence suffering and what purpose does it serve? Which is the road to true happiness? What are death, judgment and retribution after death? What, finally, is that ultimate inexpressible mystery which encompasses our existence: whence do we come, and where are we going?

2. From ancient times down to the present, there is found among various peoples a certain perception of that hidden power which hovers over the course of things and over the events of human history; at times some indeed have come to the recognition of a Supreme Being, or even of a Father. This perception and recognition penetrates their lives with a profound religious sense.

Religions, however, that are bound up with an advanced culture have struggled to answer the same questions by means of more refined concepts and a more developed language. Thus in Hinduism, men contemplate the divine mystery and express it through an inexhaustible abundance of myths and through searching philosophical inquiry. They seek freedom from the anguish of our human condition either through ascetical practices or profound meditation or a flight to God with love and trust. Again, Buddhism, in its various forms, realizes the radical insufficiency of this changeable world; it teaches a way by which men, in a devout and confident spirit, may be able either to acquire the state of perfect liberation, or attain, by their own efforts or through higher help, supreme illumination. Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing "ways," comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ "the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.(4)...

From:
DECLARATION ON
THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS
NOSTRA AETATE
PROCLAIMED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON OCTOBER 28, 1965

Truth is narrowly defined and is not broad and all encompassing.

 

[CherubRam]

Revelation 18:4
Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “‘Come out of her, my people,’ so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;

That verse is speaking to the Catholics.

 

[locust]

That verse is speaking to the Catholics.

I suggest it's talking to all people of all religions who are not rightly in lined .