The CURSE OF THE LAW - Part 2

[Mitspa]

The CURSE OF THE LAW

Gal 3:10-13
For as many as are under the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT CONTINUE IN ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO DO THEM"

This is the main subject of the book of Galatians. That those who had been freely justified by the grace of God, and given the free gift of righteousness. Had now turned back into the written code, and to attempts to justify themselves by parts of the law.
Pauls point was that if you try to keep any part of the written code, you are subject to keep it all. And in this effort to earn, what God only gives by faith, a man has turned from the blessing of Abraham unto the curse of the law.
Take notice that it is ALL THAT IS WRITTEN- EVERY JOT AND TITTLE!
So this is Pauls point from the begining of this epistle. If any man preach another gospel other than His Gospel, they are ANATHEMA
Those who teach the law and legalism are in fact "anathema" They are the "cursed" children of 2 Pet 2:14

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]51007[/split] by Mitspa Titled The CURSE OF THE LAW

 

[christian_disable]

Re: The CURSE OF THE LAW

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]51007[/split]

 

[JLB]

Re: The CURSE OF THE LAW

What law is he speaking of? That the flesh cannot keep?

I don't see phrase - that the flesh can not keep - in the verses you quoted.

Could you rephrase your question?


JLB

 

[George Muller]

Re: The CURSE OF THE LAW

What law is he speaking of? That the flesh cannot keep?

I don't see phrase - that the flesh can not keep - in the verses you quoted.

Could you rephrase your question?


JLB

I just about forgot the conversation?
so I will start again and put in context the clear reading of the scriptures;

Ro 7:7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me

Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

do you see it now?

 

[JLB]

Re: The CURSE OF THE LAW

do you see it now?

No. I don't see the phrase, the flesh can not keep the law.

The Law of Moses was designed for fleshly, carnal, stiff necked, stubborn, lawless people to remain in the Abrahamic Covenant by obeying external ritualistic laws, thereby allowing God to Bless them as He did Abraham, so that He could use them to take the promised land and fulfill His promise to Abraham.

8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 1 Timothy 1:8-10


JLB

 

[George Muller]

Re: The CURSE OF THE LAW

do you see it now?

No. I don't see the phrase, the flesh can not keep the law.

The Law of Moses was designed for fleshly, carnal, stiff necked, stubborn, lawless people to remain in the Abrahamic Covenant by obeying external ritualistic laws, thereby allowing God to Bless them as He did Abraham, so that He could use them to take the promised land and fulfill His promise to Abraham.

8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 1 Timothy 1:8-10


JLB

My friend, I dont play word games. If you cannot read these scriptures and see that Paul is speaking in direct terms about the TEN COMMANDMENTS and the effect it has upon the flesh, I doubt you will proceed into the truth and being conformed unto the Image of Christ. The clear intention of these scriptures is to bring a believer from the allusion that flesh can produce righteousness and bring them unto the Spirit by which we are brought unto the Image of Christ.

2Co 3:6 ¶ Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

The thought that some have, that they can serve God by the Ten Commandments is so contrary to the gospel, that it proves how full of pride the flesh of man is.

 

[JLB]

Re: The CURSE OF THE LAW

The thought that some have, that they can serve God by the Ten Commandments is so contrary to the gospel, that it proves how full of pride the flesh of man is.

I agree.

My friend, I dont play word games.

I use scripture. I don't play word games.

A good example of a word game is stating that the phrase the flesh can not keep the law, and point to some scriptures that don't have this phrase in them.

George, I want to encourage you to stick to the exact language of the scripture when dealing with a controversial subject, so that those who oppose sound doctrine will have no wiggle room.

Use the exact phrase the scripture uses.

The clear intention of these scriptures is to bring a believer from the allusion that flesh can produce righteousness and bring them unto the Spirit by which we are brought unto the Image of Christ.

Yes, I agree mostly with that, however there is the balance of a believer obeying the Law of God.


JLB

 

[George Muller]

Re: The CURSE OF THE LAW

The thought that some have, that they can serve God by the Ten Commandments is so contrary to the gospel, that it proves how full of pride the flesh of man is.

I agree.

My friend, I dont play word games.

I use scripture. I don't play word games.

A good example of a word game is stating that the phrase the flesh can not keep the law, and point to some scriptures that don't have this phrase in them.

George, I want to encourage you to stick to the exact language of the scripture when dealing with a controversial subject, so that those who oppose sound doctrine will have no wiggle room.

Use the exact phrase the scripture uses.

The clear intention of these scriptures is to bring a believer from the allusion that flesh can produce righteousness and bring them unto the Spirit by which we are brought unto the Image of Christ.

Yes, I agree mostly with that, however there is the balance of a believer obeying the Law of God.


JLB

Well my friend, it is very much clear from these scriptures that the term I used is a true statement and a summary of the point being made in these scriptures. Another product of the flesh is to be a legalist in the use of words, as to deny the truth of what is being said. The scribes and lawers of the law, were very much in this habit of twisting words to the point of causing them to have little or no meaning beyond what they themselves would accept.

Now I post again the truth, whether you like it or accept it, is between you and the Lord.

Ro 7:7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me

Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[smaller]

Re: The CURSE OF THE LAW

Now I post again the truth, whether you like it or accept it, is between you and the Lord.

You post the truth?

Please.

Let's just take an honest look at Paul and then look at any given believers most often entirely phony depictions of themselves.

Paul had sin indwelling his flesh that was not him, stated twice in (Romans 7:17-20)
Paul had evil present with him (Romans 7:21)
Paul did evil (Romans 7:19)
Paul had a messenger of Satan, yes A DEVIL in his flesh (2 Cor. 12:7)
Paul presented himself as the chief of sinners after salvation (1 Tim. 1:15)
Paul has temptation in his flesh (Gal. 4:14)

These very APOSTOLIC TRUTHS have fallen so far away from the churches of today they are virtually non-existent.

You could search this entire planet and not find a single man or woman in the pulpits today speaking as Paul did.

And if there was none would listen or heed them anyway.

No, not ONE.

Can you spell c-o-l-l-a-p-s-e?

s

 

[JLB]

Re: The CURSE OF THE LAW

I agree.




I use scripture. I don't play word games.

A good example of a word game is stating that the phrase the flesh can not keep the law, and point to some scriptures that don't have this phrase in them.

George, I want to encourage you to stick to the exact language of the scripture when dealing with a controversial subject, so that those who oppose sound doctrine will have no wiggle room.

Use the exact phrase the scripture uses.

The clear intention of these scriptures is to bring a believer from the allusion that flesh can produce righteousness and bring them unto the Spirit by which we are brought unto the Image of Christ.

Yes, I agree mostly with that, however there is the balance of a believer obeying the Law of God.


JLB

Well my friend, it is very much clear from these scriptures that the term I used is a true statement and a summary of the point being made in these scriptures. Another product of the flesh is to be a legalist in the use of words, as to deny the truth of what is being said. The scribes and lawers of the law, were very much in this habit of twisting words to the point of causing them to have little or no meaning beyond what they themselves would accept.

Now I post again the truth, whether you like it or accept it, is between you and the Lord.

Ro 7:7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me

Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

What you posted here can not be refuted, for you only posted the scriptures with no man made commentary nor any man made phrases.

If you were to summarize what these scriptures are saying what would the main point be?

What is the righteousness of the law?

JLB

 

[George Muller]

Re: The CURSE OF THE LAW

I agree.




I use scripture. I don't play word games.

A good example of a word game is stating that the phrase the flesh can not keep the law, and point to some scriptures that don't have this phrase in them.

George, I want to encourage you to stick to the exact language of the scripture when dealing with a controversial subject, so that those who oppose sound doctrine will have no wiggle room.

Use the exact phrase the scripture uses.

The clear intention of these scriptures is to bring a believer from the allusion that flesh can produce righteousness and bring them unto the Spirit by which we are brought unto the Image of Christ.

Yes, I agree mostly with that, however there is the balance of a believer obeying the Law of God.


JLB

Well my friend, it is very much clear from these scriptures that the term I used is a true statement and a summary of the point being made in these scriptures. Another product of the flesh is to be a legalist in the use of words, as to deny the truth of what is being said. The scribes and lawers of the law, were very much in this habit of twisting words to the point of causing them to have little or no meaning beyond what they themselves would accept.

Now I post again the truth, whether you like it or accept it, is between you and the Lord.

Ro 7:7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me

Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

What you posted here can not be refuted, for you only posted the scriptures with no man made commentary nor any man made phrases.

If you were to summarize what these scriptures are saying what would the main point be?

What is the righteousness of the law?

JLB

I would ask you? Do you not have Gods Spirit working righteousness in and through you? And in simple terms this righteousness of the law, is expressed in the Love of God working through a believer.

 

[George Muller]

Re: The CURSE OF THE LAW

You post the truth?

What part of Gods word do you reject?

Ro 7:7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me

Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[smaller]

Re: The CURSE OF THE LAW

You post the truth?

What part of Gods word do you reject?

Your 'spin' and Gods Words are NOT identical, contrary to what you pose.

s

 

[George Muller]

Re: The CURSE OF THE LAW

Your 'spin' and Gods Words are NOT identical, contrary to what you pose.

spin what? I just posted the scriptures

Ro 7:7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me

Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[smaller]

And again, for the factual record, I for one am thankful that indwelling sin and evil present which exists and is within ALL is condemned and under the Curse of The Law.

IF God is against such things, we should be as well, as believers. Starting with ourselves.

s

 

[smaller]

Re: The CURSE OF THE LAW

spin what? I just posted the scriptures:

That A. You are sinless and B. Therefore not under the law.

I merely point out that the Law is rightfully and factually against all sin and evil, that the curse is due to those workings and workers, and that 'all' have same regardless of the avalanche of phony claims to the contrary being promoted 'in the churches.'

s

 

[JLB]

Re: The CURSE OF THE LAW

Well my friend, it is very much clear from these scriptures that the term I used is a true statement and a summary of the point being made in these scriptures. Another product of the flesh is to be a legalist in the use of words, as to deny the truth of what is being said. The scribes and lawers of the law, were very much in this habit of twisting words to the point of causing them to have little or no meaning beyond what they themselves would accept.

Now I post again the truth, whether you like it or accept it, is between you and the Lord.

Ro 7:7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me

Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

What you posted here can not be refuted, for you only posted the scriptures with no man made commentary nor any man made phrases.

If you were to summarize what these scriptures are saying what would the main point be?

What is the righteousness of the law?

JLB

I would ask you? Do you not have Gods Spirit working righteousness in and through you? And in simple terms this righteousness of the law, is expressed in the Love of God working through a believer.

George do you have a scripture that says Gods Spirit works righteousness in and through you.

The scripture you quoted says that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit.

Not the Spirit working righteousness in you, but you walking after the Spirit.

However, you may have a scripture that says The Spirit works righteousness in you.

JLB

 

[George Muller]

Re: The CURSE OF THE LAW

Well my friend, it is very much clear from these scriptures that the term I used is a true statement and a summary of the point being made in these scriptures. Another product of the flesh is to be a legalist in the use of words, as to deny the truth of what is being said. The scribes and lawers of the law, were very much in this habit of twisting words to the point of causing them to have little or no meaning beyond what they themselves would accept.

Now I post again the truth, whether you like it or accept it, is between you and the Lord.

Ro 7:7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me

Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

What you posted here can not be refuted, for you only posted the scriptures with no man made commentary nor any man made phrases.

If you were to summarize what these scriptures are saying what would the main point be?

What is the righteousness of the law?

JLB

I would ask you? Do you not have Gods Spirit working righteousness in and through you? And in simple terms this righteousness of the law, is expressed in the Love of God working through a believer.

George do you have a scripture that says Gods Spirit works righteousness in and through you.

The scripture you quoted says that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit.

Not the Spirit working righteousness in you, but you walking after the Spirit.

However, you may have a scripture that says The Spirit works righteousness in you.

JLB

Again you seem to want to play word games? If we fulfill the righteousness of the law by walking in the Spirit, can the Spirit not be the source of that righteousness? and again you ignore my questions because they would show that either you do not have the Sprit, or that you have no understanding of how the Spirit of God works through a believer?

I would ask you? Do you not have Gods Spirit working righteousness in and through you? And in simple terms this righteousness of the law, is expressed in the Love of God working through a believer.

 

[George Muller]

Re: The CURSE OF THE LAW

spin what? I just posted the scriptures:

That A. You are sinless and B. Therefore not under the law.

I merely point out that the Law is rightfully and factually against all sin and evil, that the curse is due to those workings and workers, and that 'all' have same regardless of the avalanche of phony claims to the contrary being promoted 'in the churches.'

s

Im sorry these things are hard to understand, but they are true nevertheless

1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[smaller]

Re: The CURSE OF THE LAW

Im sorry these things are hard to understand, but they are true nevertheless

There are scriptures and there are phony conclusions.

The isolation of phony conclusions are largely what we engage in in theological discussions.

If for example you think Paul didn't uphold the Law, take your pick Law, or Grace, to be against all sin and evil OR that Paul himself didn't have same, those would be examples of a phony conclusions.

Paul was super clear on these matters from whatever direction they are sliced:

Galatians 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

s