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The Death Penalty

Gary said:
So is he just as guilty as if he had done it himself?
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Let me put it this way. If you drive a friend to do a robbery and you know that he was going to do the robbery. And your friend has to kill who he is robbing to get the money. You are just as guilty has your friend. And that is the way the law sees it. Even though you were waiting outside in the car.
 
Lewis W said:
Let me put it this way. If you drive a friend to do a robbery and you know that he was going to do the robbery. And your friend has to kill who he is robbing to get the money. You are just as guilty has your friend. And that is the way the law sees it. Even though you were waiting outside in the car.
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you mean an accomplice to the crime..
 
in god's book called matthew. the lord said if one murders one in one's heart he is in danger of the council.
 
Lewis W said:
Let me put it this way. If you drive a friend to do a robbery and you know that he was going to do the robbery. And your friend has to kill who he is robbing to get the money. You are just as guilty has your friend. And that is the way the law sees it. Even though you were waiting outside in the car.
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But by your standards, is Paul just as guilty as if he had committed the murder himself?
 
Gary said:
So is he just as guilty as if he had done it himself?
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Gday Gaz,

Maybe. David used the Ammonites to murder Uriah and this was considered akin to carrying out the act himself.

2Sa 12:9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.

The consequence for David's actions should have been death.


2Sa 12:13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.


 
TOG said:
Justice isn't based on how a person feels. If it's based on how you feel, it's called vengeance.

The TOG​
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It should be based on the severity of the crime. Like a man committing rape is bad, but a man raping a little girl is worse and the punishment should be more severe. Likewise, the way that it affects people will be worse, and this is understandable I think. A man who raped your wife is bad, and you will be angry, and righteously so, but if he were to rape your 6 year old daughter...that is even more heinous and anger you more. Right? Wrong? I dunno. Understandable? Yes.
 
so if I commit a crime. the government shouldn't punish me? so if I steal, the cops should just well say gee he is a Christian, he can walk? I have stolen, I have broken laws. I should have did the time. I wasn't arrested but I did repay those that I injured.
 
Edward said:
It should be based on the severity of the crime. Like a man committing rape is bad, but a man raping a little girl is worse and the punishment should be more severe. Likewise, the way that it affects people will be worse, and this is understandable I think. A man who raped your wife is bad, and you will be angry, and righteously so, but if he were to rape your 6 year old daughter...that is even more heinous and anger you more. Right? Wrong?
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Absolutely right. Of course I would be much angrier (not really a strong enough word) if my daughter were raped than if my wife were raped. But that brings us straight back to the topic of emotions. But since people (not just you) want to appeal to emotions, I'd like to point out that it works both ways. Take the following example:

Suppose a single man rapes and kills a young girl and covers it up so well that he doesn't get caught until the police find some new evidence 10 years after he committed the crime. By that time, the man is married and has two children, who are 2 and 5 years old. The man has turned his life completely around and no longer uses drugs or alcohol and is good father and husband and a responsible, productive member of society. Should that man be executed, making his wife a widow and his children orphans?

You see, both sides can appeal to emotions. But that's not what we should base our views on, either for or against.

The TOG​
 
jasoncran said:
so if I commit a crime. the government shouldn't punish me? so if I steal, the cops should just well say gee he is a Christian, he can walk? I have stolen, I have broken laws. I should have did the time. I wasn't arrested but I did repay those that I injured.
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How does being against the death penalty equate to being against any form of punishment? Has anyone here advocated not punishing criminals in any way?

The TOG​
 
TOG wrote
Suppose a single man rapes and kills a young girl and covers it up so well that he doesn't get caught until the police find some new evidence 10 years after he committed the crime. By that time, the man is married and has two children, who are 2 and 5 years old. The man has turned his life completely around and no longer uses drugs or alcohol and is good father and husband and a responsible, productive member of society. Should that man be executed, making his wife a widow and his children orphans?
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That exact scenario TOG' has occurred countless times.
 
Lewis W said:
That exact scenario TOG' has occurred countless times.
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You missed my point. It's not about whether it has happened or not, but about why we are even mentioning it, or the similar argument made in favor of capital punishment earlier. Both are an appeal to emotion, which is considered a logical fallacy. It doesn't actually provide any real support for the point being supported (either for or against), but tries to get people to feel bad about disagreeing with you. That's not the right way to support a position or win an argument.

The TOG​
 
TOG said:
You missed my point. It's not about whether it has happened or not, but about why we are even mentioning it, or the similar argument made in favor of capital punishment earlier. Both are an appeal to emotion, which is considered a logical fallacy. It doesn't actually provide any real support for the point being supported (either for or against), but tries to get people to feel bad about disagreeing with you. That's not the right way to support a position or win an argument.

The TOG​
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:thumbsup
.
 
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abide said:
Interestingly I have never seen anywhere in the new testament where a murderer came to Christ for forgiveness
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Agreed. However, I can't find anywhere in the NT where Anyone came to the Lord and asked Him to forgive them for any particular sin. Not for murder, not for lying, or anything else.
Maybe I'm just not getting it.....where do you see it?
 
Kathi said:
I believe it would be a conflict of interest.
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I think,
If I were to see it as a conflict of interest then judges, prosecutors, police officers, etc. would have to be disqualified from those positions if they were a Christian.
Does that make sense? Maybe I misunderstood something?
 
TOG said:
Absolutely right. Of course I would be much angrier (not really a strong enough word) if my daughter were raped than if my wife were raped. But that brings us straight back to the topic of emotions. But since people (not just you) want to appeal to emotions, I'd like to point out that it works both ways. Take the following example:

Suppose a single man rapes and kills a young girl and covers it up so well that he doesn't get caught until the police find some new evidence 10 years after he committed the crime. By that time, the man is married and has two children, who are 2 and 5 years old. The man has turned his life completely around and no longer uses drugs or alcohol and is good father and husband and a responsible, productive member of society. Should that man be executed, making his wife a widow and his children orphans?

You see, both sides can appeal to emotions. But that's not what we should base our views on, either for or against.

The TOG​
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That is a good question. I am not qualified to answer it. i am not a judge. That would be a good one for a judge to decide.
 
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