The Death Penalty

[Deborah13]

Unless you are willing to allow the childmolester/killer into your home unsupervised have you forgiven?

So often the story of the woman caught in adultery is brought up in a discussion of the death penalty.... It is brought up as a reason to not use the penalty.. Jesus used the fullness of the law....

Deu 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.


Joh 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more

Agreed. Not only that they only brought the woman. The law says both will be stoned, the man as well. They said she was caught in the act....they were breaking the law.

 

[Gary]

we judge in that scenario. summery execution part of the state's right to execute. that is why i always mention it.

Where is it stated in the bible that must take part in the affairs of the state?

 

[jasoncran]

Where is it stated in the bible that must take part in the affairs of the state?

romans 13
the sword of the roman nation was to do what? stop evil. that is logically concluded to be that if i want to save you and the guy has knife aimed at you. do i just stand there and let him kill you? that is what is called summary execution. the law of defending the life of the cop and any other threatened with deadly force.

 

[Gary]

romans 13
the sword of the roman nation was to do what? stop evil. that is logically concluded to be that if i want to save you and the guy has knife aimed at you. do i just stand there and let him kill you? that is what is called summary execution. the law of defending the life of the cop and any other threatened with deadly force.

The roman nation is what the bible refers to as "the world". Where in the bible is it stated that we are to take part in affairs of the world?

Chapter and verse please.

 

[jasoncran]

The roman nation is what the bible refers to as "the world". Where in the bible is it stated that we are to take part in affairs of the world?

Chapter and verse please.

where does it say stand by and let your wife die from the murderer and rapist? your kids robbed, and rapped and sold as slaves?if you want to go there and i knew you would. then why does it say to pay tribute to them so they can do that? what the state does or doesn't do with or without our consent isn't a good thing. so if your taxes pay for wanton murder in the name of greed? don't say anything? if mlk thought as you do, blacks would still be second class citizens if freed at all .

 

[Gary]

where does it say stand by and let your wife die from the murderer and rapist? your kids robbed, and rapped and sold as slaves?if you want to go there and i knew you would.

So supporting the death penalty is going to prevent all those things from happening? Really? That's truly amazing. Murder, rape, robbery, slavery and who knows what else, can all be eradicated if we would just support the death penalty. I didn't know that.

then why does it say to pay tribute to them so they can do that?

Matthew 22
15 Then the Pharisees went and plotted how they might entangle Him in His talk.
16 And they sent to Him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, “Teacher, we know that You are true, and teach the way of God in truth; nor do You care about anyone, for You do not regard the person of men.
17 Tell us, therefore, what do You think? Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?”
18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, “Why do you test Me, you hypocrites?
19 Show Me the tax money.” So they brought Him a denarius.
20 And He said to them, “Whose image and inscription is this?”
21 They said to Him, “Caesar’s.” And He said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”


Do you understand what Jesus is saying there?

what the state does or doesn't do with or without our consent isn't a good thing. so if your taxes pay for wanton murder in the name of greed? don't say anything? if mlk thought as you do, blacks would still be second class citizens if freed at all .

Again, chapter and verse. Where is it stated that we must meddle in the affairs of the state/world?

All I'm interested in is what the bible states, nothing else.

Thanks.
.

 

[jasoncran]

So supporting the death penalty is going to prevent all those things from happening? Really? That's truly amazing. Murder, rape, robbery, slavery and who knows what else, can all be eradicated if we would just support the death penalty. I didn't know that.




Matthew 22
15 Then the Pharisees went and plotted how they might entangle Him in His talk.
16 And they sent to Him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, “Teacher, we know that You are true, and teach the way of God in truth; nor do You care about anyone, for You do not regard the person of men.
17 Tell us, therefore, what do You think? Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?”
18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, “Why do you test Me, you hypocrites?
19 Show Me the tax money.” So they brought Him a denarius.
20 And He said to them, “Whose image and inscription is this?”
21 They said to Him, “Caesar’s.” And He said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”


Do you understand what Jesus is saying there?





Again, chapter and verse. Where is it stated that we must meddle in the affairs of the state/world?

All I'm interested in is what the bible states, nothing else.

Thanks.
.

im interested where in the bible says we must call the cops. if a cop is killed for a crime and you see it. and did nothing you are part of the problem. where did jesus say word for word its a sin to carry a sword? if so then he tempted peter to sin. why would jesus do that? paul USED his roman citizenship! so that is taking part of the world, he called in the romans to save him. he could have died. but he didn't.

see the account his removal by force from the jews. that is calling in the law. romans didn't have non-lethal swords. if you didn't move out of the way they killed you.

 

[reba]

Where is it stated in the bible that must take part in the affairs of the state?

To my thinking it starts in Genesis


Joh 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

 

[Gary]

im interested where in the bible says we must call the cops. if a cop is killed for a crime and you see it. and did nothing you are part of the problem. where did jesus say word for word its a sin to carry a sword? if so then he tempted peter to sin. why would jesus do that? paul USED his roman citizenship! so that is taking part of the world, he called in the romans to save him. he could have died. but he didn't.

see the account his removal by force from the jews. that is calling in the law. romans didn't have non-lethal swords. if you didn't move out of the way they killed you.

Your response doesn't address anything in my post.

 

[jasoncran]

its lawful in America to take life in self-defense in America and not be a cop. thus you are killing a man by that action its called self defense. we all must prove it but if so that is part of the death penalty.

so by that you would allow anyone to harm you children. where is that in the bible?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_force

thou shall not kill imho isn't applicable to that. its justified in that situation to take a life. that is what im talking about. now then if you kindly address the fact that I posted that a minor may not see life for killing in cold blood please tell me how that would deter. and what about the army's life sentences for 20000k a year rapes then? that would have men and women that do what I do for the army on duty just as a small army to work those rcf's and other such like facilities.

 

[Gary]

Where is it stated in the bible that must take part in the affairs of the state?

To my thinking it starts in Genesis


Joh 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

What do affairs of the state have to do with Christianity? We are told not to be a part the world. How does one apply righteous judgment if they're entangled in worldly affairs?

Just asking.

 

[reba]

All I'm interested in is what the bible states, nothing else.

Lev 24:17 And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death.

Num 35:30 Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die.
Num 35:31 Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death.

Jos 20:3 That the slayer that killeth any person unawares and unwittingly may flee thither: and they shall be your refuge from the avenger of blood.
Jos 20:4 And when he that doth flee unto one of those cities shall stand at the entering of the gate of the city, and shall declare his cause in the ears of the elders of that city, they shall take him into the city unto them, and give him a place, that he may dwell among them.
Jos 20:5 And if the avenger of blood pursue after him, then they shall not deliver the slayer up into his hand; because he smote his neighbour unwittingly, and hated him not beforetime.

 

[Gary]

its lawful in America to take life in self-defense in America and not be a cop. thus you are killing a man by that action its called self defense. we all must prove it but if so that is part of the death penalty.

so by that you would allow anyone to harm you children. where is that in the bible?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_force

thou shall not kill imho isn't applicable to that. its justified in that situation to take a life. that is what im talking about. now then if you kindly address the fact that I posted that a minor may not see life for killing in cold blood please tell me how that would deter. and what about the army's life sentences for 20000k a year rapes then? that would have men and women that do what I do for the army on duty just as a small army to work those rcf's and other such like facilities.

I ask for scripture and I get wikipedia.

 

[reba]

The way things look to me.... if use anything the state has to offer i am responsible... roads .... laws of protection etc...

This is something you and i will not agree on Gary... I believe i am to be the best citizen i can be. What is the best citizen can change I know that sounds like a double statement i just dont have good words to explain

 

[jasoncran]

The way things look to me.... if use anything the state has to offer i am responsible... roads .... laws of protection etc...

This is something you and i will not agree on Gary... I believe i am to be the best citizen i can be. What is the best citizen can change I know that sounds like a double statement i just dont have good words to explain

I used to be a jw. that is what they said. that we shouldn't be a part of the world. no college. no voting. but they never damned taxes being paid back nor other things.

 

[Gary]

Lev 24:17 And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death.

Num 35:30 Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die.
Num 35:31 Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death.

Jos 20:3 That the slayer that killeth any person unawares and unwittingly may flee thither: and they shall be your refuge from the avenger of blood.
Jos 20:4 And when he that doth flee unto one of those cities shall stand at the entering of the gate of the city, and shall declare his cause in the ears of the elders of that city, they shall take him into the city unto them, and give him a place, that he may dwell among them.
Jos 20:5 And if the avenger of blood pursue after him, then they shall not deliver the slayer up into his hand; because he smote his neighbour unwittingly, and hated him not beforetime.

Are we still under the Old Covenant?

And weren't those laws given to the Hebrews? The Gentiles were not required to uphold those laws.

Am I wrong?

.

 

[jasoncran]

I ask for scripture and I get wikipedia.

I ask you for the verse where jesus says let the rapist rape your wife, and you say nothing to the contrary.
the brothers of Dinah did what? killed the man who raped her. read the chapter about that. she was forced to have sex and then the man said give me her to be a wife. would you do that?

Genesis 34

King James Version (KJV)


34 And Dinah the daughter of Leah, which she bare unto Jacob, went out to see the daughters of the land.

2 And when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, prince of the country, saw her, he took her, and lay with her, and defiled her.

3 And his soul clave unto Dinah the daughter of Jacob, and he loved the damsel, and spake kindly unto the damsel.

4 And Shechem spake unto his father Hamor, saying, Get me this damsel to wife.

5 And Jacob heard that he had defiled Dinah his daughter: now his sons were with his cattle in the field: and Jacob held his peace until they were come.

6 And Hamor the father of Shechem went out unto Jacob to commune with him.

7 And the sons of Jacob came out of the field when they heard it: and the men were grieved, and they were very wroth, because he had wrought folly in Israel in lying with Jacob's daughter: which thing ought not to be done.

8 And Hamor communed with them, saying, The soul of my son Shechem longeth for your daughter: I pray you give her him to wife.

9 And make ye marriages with us, and give your daughters unto us, and take our daughters unto you.

10 And ye shall dwell with us: and the land shall be before you; dwell and trade ye therein, and get you possessions therein.

11 And Shechem said unto her father and unto her brethren, Let me find grace in your eyes, and what ye shall say unto me I will give.

12 Ask me never so much dowry and gift, and I will give according as ye shall say unto me: but give me the damsel to wife.

13 And the sons of Jacob answered Shechem and Hamor his father deceitfully, and said, because he had defiled Dinah their sister:

14 And they said unto them, We cannot do this thing, to give our sister to one that is uncircumcised; for that were a reproach unto us:

15 But in this will we consent unto you: If ye will be as we be, that every male of you be circumcised;

16 Then will we give our daughters unto you, and we will take your daughters to us, and we will dwell with you, and we will become one people.

17 But if ye will not hearken unto us, to be circumcised; then will we take our daughter, and we will be gone.

18 And their words pleased Hamor, and Shechem Hamor's son.

19 And the young man deferred not to do the thing, because he had delight in Jacob's daughter: and he was more honourable than all the house of his father.

20 And Hamor and Shechem his son came unto the gate of their city, and communed with the men of their city, saying,

21 These men are peaceable with us; therefore let them dwell in the land, and trade therein; for the land, behold, it is large enough for them; let us take their daughters to us for wives, and let us give them our daughters.

22 Only herein will the men consent unto us for to dwell with us, to be one people, if every male among us be circumcised, as they are circumcised.

23 Shall not their cattle and their substance and every beast of their's be our's? only let us consent unto them, and they will dwell with us.

24 And unto Hamor and unto Shechem his son hearkened all that went out of the gate of his city; and every male was circumcised, all that went out of the gate of his city.

25 And it came to pass on the third day, when they were sore, that two of the sons of Jacob, Simeon and Levi, Dinah's brethren, took each man his sword, and came upon the city boldly, and slew all the males.

26 And they slew Hamor and Shechem his son with the edge of the sword, and took Dinah out of Shechem's house, and went out.

27 The sons of Jacob came upon the slain, and spoiled the city, because they had defiled their sister.

28 They took their sheep, and their oxen, and their asses, and that which was in the city, and that which was in the field,

29 And all their wealth, and all their little ones, and their wives took they captive, and spoiled even all that was in the house.

30 And Jacob said to Simeon and Levi, Ye have troubled me to make me to stink among the inhabitants of the land, among the Canaanites and the Perizzites: and I being few in number, they shall gather themselves together against me, and slay me; and I shall be destroyed, I and my house.

31 And they said, Should he deal with our sister as with an harlot?

my sister the middle child was raped and hated the man who did that and that is the reason I will never touch liquor. he was a drunk and raped her twice. I was in feet of one time and could have saved her and didn't know. she was behind a door. she was twelve. he walked. he apologized. I forgive him but I don't have to be his friend. he deserved time. he walked because my sister didn't tell till after a year or more. what he did was called a capital offense in florida.

 

[Gary]

The way things look to me.... if use anything the state has to offer i am responsible... roads .... laws of protection etc...

1 Peter 2
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men—
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.
17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.


Submitting ones self to the ordinances of man does not give us a license to be active in worldly affairs.

This is something you and i will not agree on Gary... I believe i am to be the best citizen i can be. What is the best citizen can change I know that sounds like a double statement i just dont have good words to explain

Do you even know what my position is on the death penalty?

I'm just asking.

 

[Gary]

I ask you for the verse where jesus says let the rapist rape your wife, and you say nothing to the contrary.
the brothers of Dinah did what? killed the man who raped her. read the chapter about that. she was forced to have sex and then the man said give me her to be a wife. would you do that?



my sister the middle child was raped and hated the man who did that and that is the reason I will never touch liquor. he was a drunk and raped her twice. I was in feet of one time and could have saved her and didn't know. she was behind a door. she was twelve. he walked. he apologized. I forgive him but I don't have to be his friend. he deserved time. he walked because my sister didn't tell till after a year or more. what he did was called a capital offense in florida.

I'm sorry your sister had to experience that, but it doesn't address the questions I asked.

 

[Kathi]

1 Peter 2
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men—
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.
17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.


Submitting ones self to the ordinances of man does not give us a license to be active in worldly affairs.




Do you even know what my position is on the death penalty?

I'm just asking.

What is your postition on the death penalty?