The Doctrine of Predestination must be in interpretted in the past tense for exegetical consistency.

[TonyFaithAlone]

I used a fancy word in the title but don't be deceived. I'm not a bible scholar. I have receive my 'formal' education only through studying the bible. I was demon possessed since I was a child so I was a little too 'down' for a proper higher-education. Still I thank the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob for the gift of his word. I could've never been able to break out of the Devil's deception without it. He captured my entire family before I could even make a gesture of defiance. And believe me I have made more than a gesture to prove that I hated all he stands for with all my heart. I sincerely regretted what I did and I believe I don't deserve to live because of it. But the Lord of Gods is merciful toward the oppressed and he cares for the widows and orphans. Above all he does not go back on his covenant with the world.

Through it all I learned that there is always a rainbow casting over the dark ages. Noah was that beacon of hope in the ancient days. But now we got a savoir who is just like us but not from us: the Son of Man, fully God and wholly man crowned as the King of Glory before the foundation of the world.

Jesus is Lord after all so there is nothing fallen angels can do if the Son of God set you free. And so I go by the teaching of my Master and Lord, 'Freely you have received so freely give to the world.'.

Let me break it down for those who don't know about what's going on in the religious world today. News Flash: the Devil's scheme is rooted in the Doctrine of Predestination. It is how hes going about gathering children for The Beast, the Anti-Christ (Man of Sin). And he does it by leading people to interpret it in the present and future tense. The former interpretation for the non-elected sinners while he uses the latter interpretation to seduce the elected of God. I remember the Lord has once said to his elected, 'Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.'. Hes talking about the Devil being cast out from heaven to earth and started to gather children for the Anti-Christ. Revelation 12. He got knocked down when John wrote his letter. 1 John 2:18. The apostle John had already taught God's children on how to tests the spirits, so there is no need to argue over OSAS. He wrote, 'Those who walk in the light have fellowship with us. Those who walk in darkness is a Liar.'. Those who are careful to keep the Lord's commands will know OSAS is demonic.

But the most difficulty thing to interpret is how God work through the Holy Spirit to save his elected. Because people can always use the argument that it's impossible to know for sure since Jesus did say to Nicodemus, 'Just as the wind blow from the east to the west. You hear its sound but you cannot know where it come from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.'. But these people don't want to consider that the truth is in plain sight: it is in the Doctrine of Predestination interpreted in the past tense exclusively. So if you build all your Christian doctrines on this one interpretation alone you'll never get anything wrong. Because this interpretation does not contradict the Jesus's statement about not being able to know the secret things about the new birth.

Furthermore, it would be blasphemy against the Holy Spirit if you interpret the Doctrine of Predestination in the present tense. God is not man as if he needed people to serve him. So what kind of church can you build for him, Christians? Isaiah 66:1. But you would say there are gathering places in the Book of Acts for religious worship. Yet the apostle Paul say the temple of the Spirit of God is a human body. 1 Corinthians 6:19. Still, you'll argue that there is an actual non-human temple of the Lord for the children of God to do good works like the Temple of Solomon for the first Christians. I want to paraphrase the Prophet Balaam to refute that argument: God is not a son of man as if he could ever lie to anyone. And I have found all of the non-denominational christian churches and varies splintered Christian groups to be liars beside the Church of Christ. This is what's wrong with them according to the Lord Jesus Christ, 'Why do you call me Lord, Lord...but do not do what I have commanded you to do? Go away from me. I never knew you. You people are workers of sins.'. The Lord Jesus have made a universal call to the world to turn away from idols and yet these guys continue to serve the Devil instead. Acts 14:15-17. So all they could get out of it is obviously contentions, divisions, jealousy, hatred, anger, wrath, greed, confusion, and even sorcery and divination. James 3:16-18. As King Solomon once say *paraphrasing*, 'Don't question how God does things. You can't make right what he has made wrong.'. Because...'Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?'. Numbers 23:19.

You can say I'm out of my mind for making such bold claims like that. But I am one mind and one spirit with Balaam: How can I curse what God has blessed? How can I blessed what God has cursed? The Lord God is with them and I have learn it through personal experiences and much careful testings. This is what I've found: Those who aren't Christ's will not teach the Doctrine of Predestination in a past tense because it would expose them to be doing nothing. How can they give spiritual life to other when they are led by the Devil himself? Those who teach it and aren't Christ's will never baptize in Jesus' name only. Who can resist the will of God? 2 Timothy 3:9. But I tell you that the Devil's will can be resisted. Because God want everyone to repent from living like The_Beast.

God has spoken to the world through his elected Angel,

'Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a lair for demons and a haunt for every unclean spirit, every unclean bird, and every detestable beast. All the nations have drunk the wine of the passion of her immorality. The kings of the earth were immoral with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown wealthy from the extravagance of her luxury.” and “Come out of her, My people, so that you will not share in her sins or contract any of her plagues. For her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. Give back to her as she has done to others; pay her back double for what she has done; mix her a double portion in her own cup. As much as she has glorified herself and lived in luxury, give her the same measure of torment and grief. In her heart she says, ‘I sit as queen; I am not a widow and will never see grief.’ Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and misery and famine—and she will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.”

Her judgement is justified. For the Lord Jesus has explicitly warned everyone who read the Bible that, 'If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.'.

My final argument against the other interpretations of the Doctrine of Predestination is that it doesn't make sense to interpret it in any other way than the past tense. The children of the child of God is saved before they were born. 1 Corinthian 7:14. And those who are not called will never believe the gospel. It's impossible for them to see it as nothing more than foolishness. 2 Corinthians 4:4. If you want extra assurance that this doctrine is true look no further than 1 Corinthian 2:12, 'We have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.'. So if you believed the gospel and did not get the Holy Spirit (those who got him know without a doubt. It's an active and personal witness to the person themselves. It's not the bible speaking to you but a living Spirit. Roman 8:16) then you have to be very worry. It's a demon(s) my friend. 2 Corinthians 11:4. No one can be led by the Holy Spirit and live in sins for longer than a day, much less months and years. 1 John 5:18. Go to the church of Christ who teaches the right gospel: Repentance toward Jesus, Faith in Jesus, Confession of Jesus, Baptism into Jesus, Service through Jesus, and The gospel of Jesus Christ. They might not openly admit that they believe in the Doctrine of Predestination in the past tense but you can't go wrong with the requirement of salvation hinging on this one doctrine: You must believe and confess that Jesus is the Son of God. 1 John 5:4-5.

There is hope in this life without the hope of eternal life. We might look pitiful to the world for practicing Godliness with contentment without an eternal reward. But it sure beats serving the Devil. I wouldn't wait until the years of tribulation come (the appearance of Anti-Christ) to repent. For then it would be too late to repent if you got demons. Revelation 13.

I'll leave you with a song by my favorite band - Radiohead.

 

[TonyFaithAlone]

I have tested it in the past tense exclusively and it lead to all manner of mistakes.

If I were to interpret the bible with this presupposition in mind…

I would have to say that the children born of a child of God is saved before they are born. That cannot be biblical because Jesus said, ‘You must be born of the Spirit and Water to enter the Kingdom of God.’. The former takes understanding the gospel and the latter is water baptism.

I would have to say that people are saved by God’s will alone. That cannot be biblical because Jesus said, ‘Whoever believe in me will have eternal life. Whoever does not believe is condemned already, because they do not believe in the Son of God.’.

I would have to say that believing in Jesus’s title(s) is the only way to get saved and that such faith is a divine revelation like what the apostle John and the apostle Peter have received. The former is received by being in the Spirit of God consciously while the latter is received by seeing the Lord performing a miracle in front of him. That cannot be biblical because Jesus said, ‘Why call me Lord Lord and do not do what I have commanded you to do?’ and ‘this is the work of my father: believe in the one he sent.’ and they are to believe in this to be saved according to the apostle Paul: ‘He was handed over to die because of our sins, and he was raised to life to make us right with God.’.

I would have to say that the Holy Spirit is given before someone believe and that this gift is predetermined before they were born. That cannot be biblical because the apostle Paul said, ‘Did you get the holy spirit through works of the law or by hearing with faith?’.

I would have to say that Faith is something that God does for you and not something that man can produce in himself. That cannot be biblical because the writer of Hebrew said, ‘For we also received the good news just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, since they did not share the faith of those who comprehended it.’.

I would have to say that the message of the gospel is: you must be chosen by God to be saved in Jesus Christ before you were born. That cannot be biblical because the gospel of Jesus Christ according to the apostle Paul is, ‘that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.’.

I would have to say that it is impossible to lose your salvation because the Holy Spirit will protect them from going to a different gospel. That cannot be biblical because the writer of Hebrew said, ‘It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— and then have fallen away—to be restored again to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.’.

I would have to say that those who preach a different gospel is still following the Holy Spirit because they are sealed with the Holy Spirit. That cannot be biblical because the apostle said about those who believe in and preach another gospel is, ‘following another spirit and that they are self-condemned if they don’t go back to the right gospel. They are in the Devil’s control.’.

I would have to say that believer are seal in the Holy Spirit when they confess Christ publicly because you can only get the Holy Spirit if God choose to give it to you before you were born and that no one can confess Christ without the Holy Spirit. That cannot biblical because the apostle Paul said, ‘You cannot confess Jesus is Lord/The Son of God without being in the Holy Spirit.’.

I would have to say that sins are forgiven when you first believe in the gospel since you were predetermined by God to have faith. That cannot be biblical because Jesus said, ‘Believe and be baptize and you will be saved. but whoever does not believe will be condemned’.

I would have to say that you are save only after you are baptized in Jesus’s name and that your baptism is per-ordained by God to go the right way. That cannot be biblical because baptism does not save according to Jesus, ‘Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.’ and the apostle Paul taught the same thing, ‘with the heart you believed and is justified. With the mouth you confess and is saved.’ the apostle John taught the same thing also, ‘Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; whoever confesses the Son has the Father as well. As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father.’.

In conclusion, the only right way to interpret the Doctrine of Predestination is to interpret it in a present tense because it succeed faith and faith can be destroyed if you don’t remain in it.

This doctrine is nothing more than another wording for the promise of God which is the gift of eternal life. 1 John 2:25. Any other interpretations come from the Devil – the spirit of Anti-Christ. Ephesians 2:2.

The Doctrine of Faith Alone is biblical. Ephesians 2:8. The gift that Paul was talking about is not the ability to believe but the promise of God - eternal life.

I can’t believe the churches got divided over something so simple.

 

[for_his_glory]

God only predestined His plan of salvation through Christ. He did not predestine who would be saved or condemned. There is no secret thing about the Spiritual rebirth from above as it's laid out in John 3:5-7 and Romans 10:9, 10.

The church that is built on the rock is the body of Christ with Him being the head of the body, Colossians 1:18-23, as this was revealed to Peter by God and the gates of hell can not prevail against it, Matthew 16:13-19.

BTW, Balaam did evil in the eyes of God as he told King Balak how to get the Israelites to commit sin by enticing them with sexual immortality and eating food offered to idols as this was a stumbling block placed before the children of Israel causing them to transgress God and God to sent a deadly plague on them. Rev 2:14. Joshua 13:22 God's protection was taken away from Balaam as he died by the sword fighting against the Reubenite. Balaam was not an Israelite and that is why he caused them to stumble.

 

[JLB]

I used a fancy word in the title but don't be deceived. I'm not a bible scholar. I have receive my 'formal' education only through studying the bible. I was demon possessed since I was a child so I was a little too 'down' for a proper higher-education. Still I thank the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob for the gift of his word. I could've never been able to break out of the Devil's deception without it. He captured my entire family before I could even make a gesture of defiance. And believe me I have made more than a gesture to prove that I hated all he stands for with all my heart. I sincerely regretted what I did and I believe I don't deserve to live because of it. But the Lord of Gods is merciful toward the oppressed and he cares for the widows and orphans. Above all he does not go back on his covenant with the world.

Through it all I learned that there is always a rainbow casting over the dark ages. Noah was that beacon of hope in the ancient days. But now we got a savoir who is just like us but not from us: the Son of Man, fully God and wholly man crowned as the King of Glory before the foundation of the world.

Jesus is Lord after all so there is nothing fallen angels can do if the Son of God set you free. And so I go by the teaching of my Master and Lord, 'Freely you have received so freely give to the world.'.

Let me break it down for those who don't know about what's going on in the religious world today. News Flash: the Devil's scheme is rooted in the Doctrine of Predestination. It is how hes going about gathering children for The Beast, the Anti-Christ (Man of Sin). And he does it by leading people to interpret it in the present and future tense. The former interpretation for the non-elected sinners while he uses the latter interpretation to seduce the elected of God. I remember the Lord has once said to his elected, 'Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.'. Hes talking about the Devil being cast out from heaven to earth and started to gather children for the Anti-Christ. Revelation 12. He got knocked down when John wrote his letter. 1 John 2:18. The apostle John had already taught God's children on how to tests the spirits, so there is no need to argue over OSAS. He wrote, 'Those who walk in the light have fellowship with us. Those who walk in darkness is a Liar.'. Those who are careful to keep the Lord's commands will know OSAS is demonic.

But the most difficulty thing to interpret is how God work through the Holy Spirit to save his elected. Because people can always use the argument that it's impossible to know for sure since Jesus did say to Nicodemus, 'Just as the wind blow from the east to the west. You hear its sound but you cannot know where it come from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.'. But these people don't want to consider that the truth is in plain sight: it is in the Doctrine of Predestination interpreted in the past tense exclusively. So if you build all your Christian doctrines on this one interpretation alone you'll never get anything wrong. Because this interpretation does not contradict the Jesus's statement about not being able to know the secret things about the new birth.

Furthermore, it would be blasphemy against the Holy Spirit if you interpret the Doctrine of Predestination in the present tense. God is not man as if he needed people to serve him. So what kind of church can you build for him, Christians? Isaiah 66:1. But you would say there are gathering places in the Book of Acts for religious worship. Yet the apostle Paul say the temple of the Spirit of God is a human body. 1 Corinthians 6:19. Still, you'll argue that there is an actual non-human temple of the Lord for the children of God to do good works like the Temple of Solomon for the first Christians. I want to paraphrase the Prophet Balaam to refute that argument: God is not a son of man as if he could ever lie to anyone. And I have found all of the non-denominational christian churches and varies splintered Christian groups to be liars beside the Church of Christ. This is what's wrong with them according to the Lord Jesus Christ, 'Why do you call me Lord, Lord...but do not do what I have commanded you to do? Go away from me. I never knew you. You people are workers of sins.'. The Lord Jesus have made a universal call to the world to turn away from idols and yet these guys continue to serve the Devil instead. Acts 14:15-17. So all they could get out of it is obviously contentions, divisions, jealousy, hatred, anger, wrath, greed, confusion, and even sorcery and divination. James 3:16-18. As King Solomon once say *paraphrasing*, 'Don't question how God does things. You can't make right what he has made wrong.'. Because...'Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?'. Numbers 23:19.

You can say I'm out of my mind for making such bold claims like that. But I am one mind and one spirit with Balaam: How can I curse what God has blessed? How can I blessed what God has cursed? The Lord God is with them and I have learn it through personal experiences and much careful testings. This is what I've found: Those who aren't Christ's will not teach the Doctrine of Predestination in a past tense because it would expose them to be doing nothing. How can they give spiritual life to other when they are led by the Devil himself? Those who teach it and aren't Christ's will never baptize in Jesus' name only. Who can resist the will of God? 2 Timothy 3:9. But I tell you that the Devil's will can be resisted. Because God want everyone to repent from living like The_Beast.

God has spoken to the world through his elected Angel,

'Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a lair for demons and a haunt for every unclean spirit, every unclean bird, and every detestable beast. All the nations have drunk the wine of the passion of her immorality. The kings of the earth were immoral with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown wealthy from the extravagance of her luxury.” and “Come out of her, My people, so that you will not share in her sins or contract any of her plagues. For her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. Give back to her as she has done to others; pay her back double for what she has done; mix her a double portion in her own cup. As much as she has glorified herself and lived in luxury, give her the same measure of torment and grief. In her heart she says, ‘I sit as queen; I am not a widow and will never see grief.’ Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and misery and famine—and she will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.”

Her judgement is justified. For the Lord Jesus has explicitly warned everyone who read the Bible that, 'If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.'.

My final argument against the other interpretations of the Doctrine of Predestination is that it doesn't make sense to interpret it in any other way than the past tense. The children of the child of God is saved before they were born. 1 Corinthian 7:14. And those who are not called will never believe the gospel. It's impossible for them to see it as nothing more than foolishness. 2 Corinthians 4:4. If you want extra assurance that this doctrine is true look no further than 1 Corinthian 2:12, 'We have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.'. So if you believed the gospel and did not get the Holy Spirit (those who got him know without a doubt. It's an active and personal witness to the person themselves. It's not the bible speaking to you but a living Spirit. Roman 8:16) then you have to be very worry. It's a demon(s) my friend. 2 Corinthians 11:4. No one can be led by the Holy Spirit and live in sins for longer than a day, much less months and years. 1 John 5:18. Go to the church of Christ who teaches the right gospel: Repentance toward Jesus, Faith in Jesus, Confession of Jesus, Baptism into Jesus, Service through Jesus, and The gospel of Jesus Christ. They might not openly admit that they believe in the Doctrine of Predestination in the past tense but you can't go wrong with the requirement of salvation hinging on this one doctrine: You must believe and confess that Jesus is the Son of God. 1 John 5:4-5.

There is hope in this life without the hope of eternal life. We might look pitiful to the world for practicing Godliness with contentment without an eternal reward. But it sure beats serving the Devil. I wouldn't wait until the years of tribulation come (the appearance of Anti-Christ) to repent. For then it would be too late to repent if you got demons. Revelation 13.

I'll leave you with a song by my favorite band - Radiohead.

Thanks for sharing with us.

Welcome to the Forum.


Could you explain a little more, about what you mean by “interpreting the doctrine of predestination in the future sense.”


Thanks JLB