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The doctrine of The Trinity

wondering said:
What I've learned is that there are at least two baptisms.
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According to the scriptures there are three baptizims.


Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 1 Corinthians 10:1-2


  • all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.


  1. Baptized into Moses foreshadows us being baptized into Christ, by the Holy Spirit.

This baptizm is done by the Holy Spirit, with the Holy Spirit being the Baptizer.

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13

This occurs when we believe and are born again.

At this stage we are joined to Christ and are one spirit with Him.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17



2. Next is when we are baptized in water, with man being the one doing the baptizing.​
​
  • Baptized in the sea.

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5

  • for John truly baptized with water,

John the Baptist was the first to baptize people in water, then the Apostles and later Phillip.



3. Finally, the baptism with the Holy Spirit, which is done by Jesus, with Him being the Baptizer.​


Baptized in the cloud. This baptism foreshadows the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. Mark 1:8


These are the three baptisms that the scripture teaches.



JLB
 
OzSpen said:
FHG,

That is a strange understanding of the work of the Trinity. I'll be posting a link to a more systemised view of the work of the persons in the Trinity. That should be today.

Oz
Click to expand...

It's like all those scriptures I posted in #11 that shows Jesus and the Holy Spirit are equal with God as being one in God's Spirit, but for different purposes.
 
JLB said:
Here is what the scriptures show us, how the Apostles baptized.



Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38



For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Acts 8:16


Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
Acts 10:47-48



When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. Acts 19:5-6



Can you provide any scripture examples where anyone in the Bible ever baptized “in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit”.


Jesus is the name the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, have chosen to represent the Godhead.


For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; Colossians 2:9


Jesus is the name above every name.



JLB
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Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

This was a clear directive from Jesus to His disciples. One God in three Divine persons that are distinct, yet are one substance, essence or nature.
 
OzSpen

From your website:
Father, Son and Holy Spirit are co-equal and co-eternal in the Trinitarian godhead. Each member of the Trinity has an identical essence. By essence I mean nature. Therefore, God has one nature but Scripture confirms there are three distinct persons who are God. All are called God so are co-equal and are eternal, i.e. co-eternal.

By saying God has one essence and three persons it is meant that he has one ‘What’ and three ‘Whos.’ The three Whos (persons) each share the same What (essence). God is a unity of essence with a plurality of persons. Each person is different, yet they (sic)[14] share a common nature (Geisler 1999:732).[15]

Never heard of Geisler, but have been saying the same thing beginning with post #11.
 
for_his_glory said:
It's like all those scriptures I posted in #11 that shows Jesus and the Holy Spirit are equal with God as being one in God's Spirit, but for different purposes.
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FHG,

That is not an orthodox, evangelical, Trinitarian understanding. Details are in my new article: How to understand three persons in the Trinity.

What do you mean by the language of 'being one in God's Spirit'? Are God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit functioning as persons or modes?

Oz
 
for_his_glory said:
OzSpen
Never heard of Geisler, but have been saying the same thing beginning with post #11.
Click to expand...

FHG,

You live in the USA (where Geisler dwelt) and I live in Australia. I have many of the books published on apologetics and theology by the late Prof Norman L Geisler. I suggest you become informed, especially of the content of his massive 4-volume work on Systematic Theology.

If you are interested in pursuing the teaching of this eminent Bible teacher, perhaps a better place to start would be with the abridged version of these 4 vols, Systematic Theology in One Volume.

Oz
 
for_his_glory said:
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

This was a clear directive from Jesus to His disciples. One God in three Divine persons that are distinct, yet are one substance, essence or nature.
Click to expand...

Ok. What’s the name of the Father?

What’s the name of the Holy Spirit?

If you read my post, I stated that the name that the Godhead has chosen to represent it, is Jesus.

See Colossians 2:9

Plainly you can see that the Apostles understood this, as they only baptized people in the name of Jesus Christ.

I listed four different scriptures that show this.


Can you show me one scripture reference where anyone in the Bible ever, one time baptized anyone in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?



JLB
 
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38



For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Acts 8:16


Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
Acts 10:47-48



When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. Acts 19:5-6
 
wondering said:
I've never heard this.
The Word was GOD.

Then how do YOU explain the word?
Click to expand...

Hey wondering, how ya doing?

Try as I might, I just can't seem to justify anything in trying to debate the doctrines of men. But without all the doctrines of men attached to it, the scriptures seem to read pretty clear.

There are three that bear record in HEAVEN, the Father the WORD and the Spirit; and these three agree as one. Their Witness and testimony shall agree, but this is from HEAVEN.

God is a SPIRIT, and must be worshipped in Spirit and in Truth

The SON is one who was the express IMAGE of God, born of the flesh in this world. We were all made in God's image.

Jesus is one who came by Water and Blood. There are three that bear record in the EARTH, the Spirit, the Water and the Blood; and these three shall agree as one. Their testimony shall concur.

The SPIRIT is the one common between HEAVEN and EARTH. The Word became flesh, but was taken up. The Spirit remains.

The SON came to bear record of the FATHER and His Kingdom. The power of the Spirit bore record of this by His Word and through the many miracles.

But the SON was considered the express image of God in the flesh. If we picture God as a man after the flesh, a Son, then there still remains a vail upon the hearts; which vail was done away with in His flesh.

Now when you realize that the Kingdom of Heaven is within You, and you find the testimony of the Father, the Word, and the Spirit in agreement with that of the Water and the Blood, then the Two shall become one Flesh.
 
OzSpen said:
FHG,

That is not an orthodox, evangelical, Trinitarian understanding. Details are in my new article: How to understand three persons in the Trinity.

What do you mean by the language of 'being one in God's Spirit'? Are God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit functioning as persons or modes?

Oz
Click to expand...

I don't know what an orthodox, evangelical, Trinitarian understanding is, but what I quoted from your article in Post # 64 you can see that I am agreeing with that.
 
OzSpen said:
FHG,

You live in the USA (where Geisler dwelt) and I live in Australia. I have many of the books published on apologetics and theology by the late Prof Norman L Geisler. I suggest you become informed, especially of the content of his massive 4-volume work on Systematic Theology.

If you are interested in pursuing the teaching of this eminent Bible teacher, perhaps a better place to start would be with the abridged version of these 4 vols, Systematic Theology in One Volume.

Oz
Click to expand...

I feel I fully explained in post # 11 with all the scriptures my understanding of the Godhead. Father, Son Jesus and the Holy Spirit are entity who is the existence of one spirit that is God. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not separate, but have always been before the foundation of the world. Each has it's own purpose of what God has purposed them for in His plan of Salvation.

I do appreciate you telling me about Geisler and what I quoted from him I agree with, but will probably not read through all his material. We can speculate and assume and give our own understanding by what is written in the scriptures, but really can not comprehend the full understanding of the Trinity.

Ephesians 4: 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit as all three coequal Gods Spirit as Jesus and the Holy Spirit are advocates of God.
 
JLB said:
Ok. What’s the name of the Father?

What’s the name of the Holy Spirit?

If you read my post, I stated that the name that the Godhead has chosen to represent it, is Jesus.

See Colossians 2:9

Plainly you can see that the Apostles understood this, as they only baptized people in the name of Jesus Christ.

I listed four different scriptures that show this.


Can you show me one scripture reference where anyone in the Bible ever, one time baptized anyone in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?



JLB
Click to expand...

Whether anyone did or did not baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost you asked for the scripture that said this and I gave it to you in Matthew 28:19. This is Christ directive to how the disciples were to baptize others.

Many even today are baptized in the name of the Father (God), the Son (Christ Jesus) and the Holy Spirit like I was years ago. No one can refute Christ directive. There are a few different types of baptism, but yet this is another topic of discussion and has nothing to do with this thread.
 
ezrider said:
Hey wondering, how ya doing?

Try as I might, I just can't seem to justify anything in trying to debate the doctrines of men. But without all the doctrines of men attached to it, the scriptures seem to read pretty clear.

There are three that bear record in HEAVEN, the Father the WORD and the Spirit; and these three agree as one. Their Witness and testimony shall agree, but this is from HEAVEN.

God is a SPIRIT, and must be worshipped in Spirit and in Truth

The SON is one who was the express IMAGE of God, born of the flesh in this world. We were all made in God's image.

Jesus is one who came by Water and Blood. There are three that bear record in the EARTH, the Spirit, the Water and the Blood; and these three shall agree as one. Their testimony shall concur.

The SPIRIT is the one common between HEAVEN and EARTH. The Word became flesh, but was taken up. The Spirit remains.

The SON came to bear record of the FATHER and His Kingdom. The power of the Spirit bore record of this by His Word and through the many miracles.

But the SON was considered the express image of God in the flesh. If we picture God as a man after the flesh, a Son, then there still remains a vail upon the hearts; which vail was done away with in His flesh.

Now when you realize that the Kingdom of Heaven is within You, and you find the testimony of the Father, the Word, and the Spirit in agreement with that of the Water and the Blood, then the Two shall become one Flesh.
Click to expand...
Hi EZ....all OK.
I miss your posts.

You always have something new to say and it makes me think.

I agree with all you've said even though my studies of the Trinity have been through man-made theology.

I just don't understand the very last sentence...this, highlighted by me above:

you find the testimony of the Father, the Word, and the Spirit in agreement with that of the Water and the Blood, then the Two shall become one Flesh.

I'm good with the Father, the Word and the Spirit......

what do you mean by:
"in agreement with that of the Water and the Blood, then the TWO shall become ONE FLESH."
 
JLB said:
Ok. What’s the name of the Father?

What’s the name of the Holy Spirit?

If you read my post, I stated that the name that the Godhead has chosen to represent it, is Jesus.

See Colossians 2:9

Plainly you can see that the Apostles understood this, as they only baptized people in the name of Jesus Christ.

I listed four different scriptures that show this.


Can you show me one scripture reference where anyone in the Bible ever, one time baptized anyone in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

JLB
Click to expand...
Actually JLB, The 2nd person of the Trinity doesn't have a name either.

That would be the Son....who is the WORD of God.

That 2nd person of the Trinity only has a name because He became man and was named Jesus.

He was NOT called Jesus before 2,000 years ago and yet He always existed.

John 1
THE WORD WAS WITH GOD
HE WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD
AND THE WORD BECAME FLESH
ONLY JESUS HAS SEEN THE FATHER
 
wondering said:
Actually JLB, The 2nd person of the Trinity doesn't have a name either.

That would be the Son....who is the WORD of God.

That 2nd person of the Trinity only has a name because He became man and was named Jesus.

He was NOT called Jesus before 2,000 years ago and yet He always existed.

John 1
THE WORD WAS WITH GOD
HE WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD
AND THE WORD BECAME FLESH
ONLY JESUS HAS SEEN THE FATHER
Click to expand...

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

These are not names, but titles just like the English word Jesus.
 
for_his_glory said:
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

These are not names, but titles just like the English word Jesus.
Click to expand...
Isn't Jesus Yeshua?
I believe that's a name.

I haven't read the entire article,,,,but it seems interesting.
It's just too long for me.

It's speaking about how Immanuel became Jesus. (Yeshua).

 
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