The Early Church Fathers

[GodsGrace]

wondering is.married,an estranged catholic.

she has grand kids,is from NYC resides in Italy .

I don't know J,
Do you HAVE TO tell everybody how old I am?

 

[stovebolts]

Yes, I agree...and they should carry more weight than Calvin, Luther, and even Augustine, since they spoke directly to an Apostle or someone once removed.

I like Ignatius of Antioch because he was taught by John and John is my favorite Apostle and perhaps the only one that we could be sure wrote his Gospel and Epistles. He was also the last to die and so much was written while he was still alive, so I tend to trust those writings.

As far as Augustine, he does come after the Pre-Nicene Fathers, he died in 430 AD. He changed a lot of what was formerly believed; for instance, catholics baptize babies because of his theology. He believed that Adam's sin was imputed to us all and thus if a baby died with this original sin, he would go to hell. (the CC no longer believes this).

St. Augustine, also called Saint Augustine of Hippo, original Latin name Aurelius Augustinus, (born November 13, 354, Tagaste, Numidia [now Souk Ahras, Algeria]—died August 28, 430, Hippo Regius [now Annaba, Algeria]; feast day August 28), bishop of Hippo from 396 to 430, one of the Latin Fathers of the Church and perhaps the most significant Christian thinker after St. Paul.

Even though he's not one of my favorite, it can be said that he certainly was a great thinker and must have had much charisma to have had such an impact on the Catholic Church of that time.

I also believe the early church was close to what Jesus would have wanted it to be...simple, pure and holy. This changed a great deal after Constantine made Catholicism (which means the universal church) the official church of the state just before the time of the Nicene Council, 325 AD.

Ha, I think we've read much of the same things and came to the same conclusion!

I was just reading Ignatios again last month. I do like his writings as well.

In all honesty, I've yet to get through Polycarp. I think you just spurred me!

 

[jasonc]

Yes. Pretty funny. After all we did to have bigger homes, suddenly little tiny homes are in style.

Seems like we want what we don't have.
Of course, I wouldn't like a tiny home...where would I put all my knick knacks??

I will post a historic home,as it's over a hundred years old.it's in my wife's family .I was built without utilities, not even a bathroom.it has been modernized.

 

[GodsGrace]

Ha, I think we've read much of the same things and came to the same conclusion!

I was just reading Ignatios again last month. I do like his writings as well.

In all honesty, I've yet to get through Polycarp. I think you just spurred me!

Polycarp is great.
Do you have that 10 volume set?
I can't get it here -- wish I could.
So it's by piece-meal; which is OK since there's so much to read anyway.

What I like to do is google what they said on different subjects.
I don't usually use google, but for this I have to and it's OK since it's their own words.

 

[GodsGrace]

I will post a historic home,as it's over a hundred years old.it's in my wife's family .I was built without utilities, not even a bathroom.it has been modernized.

Sounds like my hometown over here (not where I live).
The homes there also had no utilities until about the 50's !
After WWII. Of course this was not true of the cities, and even my hometown is totally modernized by now.

When I first went there in 1962, no one had a fridge, TV or car. There were maybe 3 cars in the entire town. It was like going back in time since I lived in Queens in NYC, as you know.

 

[chessman]

Irenaeus is my FAV. Straight-forward, to the point, always with proofs for his points.

This link is a compilation of the ECF’s references to NT Scripture:

There are 12,517 cross-references. By the nature of its method of compilation, this e-Catena project has a rightful claim to providing the most comprehensive collection of allusions from the Ante-Nicene Fathers to the New Testament texts. But it is not without its faults. Because the electronic version of the Ante-Nicene Fathers has a high incidence of transcription error, particularly with the chapter and verse numbers, some of the references are off.​

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http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/e-catena/​

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I’ve noticed in reading them; they didn’t mind calling out others for error. A lot!

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[jasonc]

Sounds like my hometown over here (not where I live).
The homes there also had no utilities until about the 50's !
After WWII. Of course this was not true of the cities, and even my hometown is totally modernized by now.

When I first went there in 1962, no one had a fridge, TV or car. There were maybe 3 cars in the entire town. It was like going back in time since I lived in Queens in NYC, as you know.

Lest we derail the thread ,I know the answer here to when since fpl,the city power grid ,the Co op served all at the same time .the homes built for utilities started going up in the 20s here.they had acess to it then and built out as desired and wanted .the home I mentioned is why we have power going way west of the then clup,43rd ave.they paid 500 bucks in the 1940s after we to get power. I have seen photos of old places with meters on it dated in the 40s,or earlier .

 

[jeremiah1five]

wondering is.married,an estranged catholic.

she has grand kids,is from NYC resides in Italy .

Did they teach you in service about keeping the mouth?
That's her business, why are you telling me someone else's business?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Hi J,
Been busy with the TOS; sorry I didn't get back to you sooner.
Your reply is so thoughtful. I also post many times the verse about the planting, watering and growing. God does the growing, and we can only do our best.
1 Corinthians 3:6

As to knowing persons on this site,,,I've been here 3 years and pretty much know all the posters. Even many of the new ones...you'll find that we're a small family and sooner or later we interact with everyone.

I'm glad it refreshed your memory. I never used to read or even know about the ECF, but we're forever learning new things about our Christianity. I find that I've been learning about what they wrote more and more...it started with the Didache: The Teachings of the Apostles. Probably written in the 90's, but some believe it might be into the early 2nd century (120 AD or so).

I don't have a problem with disagreements...we're all brother in Christ...as long as we don't make our disagreements personal.

If anything comes to mind, please post it.

Awww...the Didache.

 

[GodsGrace]

Did they teach you in service about keeping the mouth?
That's her business, why are you telling me someone else's business?

You would have learned it sooner or later anyway.
It's all stuff that's public here and that I've referred to.
No secrets given away!

 

[jeremiah1five]

You would have learned it sooner or later anyway.
It's all stuff that's public here and that I've referred to.
No secrets given away!

Maybe so, but I see it as disrespect to talk about someone behind their back - or even in their face.
But there are times when in private discussion a person is being spoken of and there are circumstances in which it is necessary. If I wanted to know something about a person I go to the person and ask. But I am careful about hearsay comments.

 

[GodsGrace]

Maybe so, but I see it as disrespect to talk about someone behind their back - or even in their face.
But there are times when in private discussion a person is being spoken of and there are circumstances in which it is necessary. If I wanted to know something about a person I go to the person and ask. But I am careful about hearsay comments.

I agree fully.
In fact one of our rules is to tag anyone we're speaking about with the @ sign and then their name, which they'll see.
Sometimes we forget.

 

[stovebolts]

Maybe so, but I see it as disrespect to talk about someone behind their back - or even in their face.
But there are times when in private discussion a person is being spoken of and there are circumstances in which it is necessary. If I wanted to know something about a person I go to the person and ask. But I am careful about hearsay comments.

I think one thing you need to keep in mind is that many of us have known each other for years.
While I do appreciate your concern, try to keep in mind that you are stepping into a community that has learned to get along with each other and many of the relationships that have formed through those years run deep.

We welcome you into our community, and we hope to get to know you, the person as you learn more about us, our quirks and all.

And I agree, we should never talk behind each others back. And I do watch for that as I have FULL access of everything that occurs on this board when i feel that need to look.

 

[for_his_glory]

wondering, I know the ECF is a passion of yours and others of what they teach, but this is a subject I personally try to refrain from. I have never read very much of what they teach, but only study that of what the Prophets and Apostles have already given as being inspired of God to write and teach all of us.

I do pray the discussions go well as at times topics like this can become heated and I want no part of that.
Blessings to you and your family

 

[jeremiah1five]

I think one thing you need to keep in mind is that many of us have known each other for years.
While I do appreciate your concern, try to keep in mind that you are stepping into a community that has learned to get along with each other and many of the relationships that have formed through those years run deep.

We welcome you into our community, and we hope to get to know you, the person as you learn more about us, our quirks and all.

And I agree, we should never talk behind each others back. And I do watch for that as I have FULL access of everything that occurs on this board when i feel that need to look.

Ah, but if "knowing each other a long time" is not founded on the Word of God, then what do you have?
All relationships if not founded on the Word of God is not relationship. Once we relate to the Scripture that instructs and commands our behavior in all things, who to love, how to love, etc., then we can have true Biblical relationships with each other, but if we cannot guide each other TO that Biblical instruction then such relationships are built on sand.
I seek relations with those who have their own doctrine built on rock and once a relation is built on rock and we (the two rocks) instruct and guide another to have a relation built on rock, and we get another on rock, and another....

Love comes with instruction and it is not emotion. Emotion only allows us to enjoy it.
Stove, sir

 

[GodsGrace]

wondering, I know the ECF is a passion of yours and others of what they teach, but this is a subject I personally try to refrain from. I have never read very much of what they teach, but only study that of what the Prophets and Apostles have already given as being inspired of God to write and teach all of us.

I do pray the discussions go well as at times topics like this can become heated and I want no part of that.
Blessings to you and your family

Hi FHG
We spoke about the above about a week or two ago and you came away with the impression that I follow Ignatius of Antioch because I used him as an example. I do hope you understand that I don't follow any one person except Jesus.

When I have a doubt about something I go to Jesus' actual words.
He does say some things that can be understood wrongly in our society today. As you well know, the culture was so different back then...so in many cases, I like to know what those that came immediately after Jesus and/or the Apostles thought about any given matter. I do find that this is a legitimate way of knowing what the thinking was back then.

Also, I'd say that you and I did not experience any "heated" discussion, and it would be rare to have one on any of my threads. If it got mean, I'd just ask to have it closed down. OTOH, we shouldn't fear speaking about something because it might cause some friction.

If it hadn't been for discussion, I never would have learned about the ECF!

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi FHG
We spoke about the above about a week or two ago and you came away with the impression that I follow Ignatius of Antioch because I used him as an example. I do hope you understand that I don't follow any one person except Jesus.

When I have a doubt about something I go to Jesus' actual words.
He does say some things that can be understood wrongly in our society today. As you well know, the culture was so different back then...so in many cases, I like to know what those that came immediately after Jesus and/or the Apostles thought about any given matter. I do find that this is a legitimate way of knowing what the thinking was back then.

Also, I'd say that you and I did not experience any "heated" discussion, and it would be rare to have one on any of my threads. If it got mean, I'd just ask to have it closed down. OTOH, we shouldn't fear speaking about something because it might cause some friction.

If it hadn't been for discussion, I never would have learned about the ECF!

I was under the impression that you did follow the teachings of Ignatius of Antioch and I thank you for clearing that up.

I know you follow the teachings of Christ and you do have a pure heart for the Lord and seeking truth. There would never be a heated discussion between us, but only that of civil sharing within our indifference's.

I never fear anything that could cause frictions, but also know when to remain quite as not to cause division. I just see at times when topics like this come up it can become a heated debate and that is why I pray it doesn't go that way. I'm basically bowing out because I have no idea what the ECF teach.

Hope you understand