The Elect Hear The Voice Of The Shepherd.

[Boaz]

Reformed05,

Sheep are cream coloured in Australia (unless they are 'black sheep' of the family).


Wolves are a different colour. Which colour would be that of non-Christians?

I, as a 'leaky' Reformed Arminian (I accept believers' baptism), believe that all people are potential sheep, Jesus died for all of them (1 Jn 2:2), extended his grace to all of theTitus 2:11; Jn 12:32), and whoever chooses to believe is saved (Jn 3:16).

Oz

Neither one. It's a metaphor within an alagory. The sheep are. And I believe the sheep are the ones given to Jesus by the Father. I believe in an outward call, all people hear the Gospel, and an inward call, the one effective for salvation. That is what I believe and you believe what you believe and I have no desire or intention or the arrogaice to try to change your beliefs or judge you for them. So Please. STOP.

 

[for_his_glory]

In the Islamic version, Mohammed feels a crushing, overwhelming and terrifying power that eventually commands him. He is commanded to begin reciting. (Koran means "the recitation.") He has no choice: recite or be crushed. God acted with pure will, forcing himself upon man.

Mohammed was a self proclaimed prophet, not of God who wrote the Quran because of his hatred towards Jews and Christians. Islam believes in the virgin birth, but also that Mary remained a virgin for the rest of her life. Islam regards Jesus as only a human prophet born of a virgin, but not the Son of God so you can not compare Islam with Calvinism.

 

[Boaz]

Mohammed was a self proclaimed prophet, not of God who wrote the Quran because of his hatred towards Jews and Christians. Islam believes in the virgin birth, but also that Mary remained a virgin for the rest of her life. Islam regards Jesus as only a human prophet born of a virgin, but not the Son of God so you can not compare Islam with Calvinism.

FHG
Thanks for that post.

 

[OzSpen]

Neither one. It's a metaphor within an alagory. The sheep are. And I believe the sheep are the ones given to Jesus by the Father. I believe in an outward call, all people hear the Gospel, and an inward call, the one effective for salvation. That is what I believe and you believe what you believe and I have no desire or intention or the arrogaice to try to change your beliefs or judge you for them. So Please. STOP.

'I believe ... I believe ... I believe ... you believe ... you believe ... your beliefs'

 

[for_his_glory]

I sense a lot of confusion and embitterment flaring within what each other are trying to bring across in what they believe which is starting to make this thread a I'm right your wrong division among the Brothers an Sisters of Christ. This is becoming a violation of ToS 1.3 that needs to be reread if read at all. Address the issue and not the person so we can discuss in love and harmony of the Gospel.

 

[for_his_glory]

God did not predestine the man (which individuals would be saved & lost), He predestined the plan (how men would be saved) - read again Acts 10:34-35; Eph. 1:3-12; Rom. 8:28-30; 10:9-17.

The Bible reveals that regarding free-will and predestination it is not one or the other, but rather both. That is, the Bible teaches both the free-will of man and God's election or predestination. Unfortunately the teachings and creeds of men have misdefined these Biblical concepts so that the impression is left that one cannot have both, but only one or the other. We must accept the whole counsel of God on this subject instead of the wisdom of men (Gal. 1:6-10; 1 Cor. 1:18-21).

Many people teach that man either has no free-will (fatalism) or limited amounts of it. The Bible teaches that every person with a moral capacity has the freedom of will to decide whether or not to obey God. Simply put, the Bible teaches that God elected (predestined or set in place) to save every soul who fears (respects) God and works righteousness, (Acts 10:34-35). That is, before time eternal, God predestined that men would be saved "in Christ" (Eph. 1:3-4, 7-12). God predestined the "plan" of human redemption (cf. Eph. 3:10-11).

God also determined that man would have free-will, the ability and responsibility to choose to obey Him (cf. Gen. 3:1-6; Josh. 24:15; Matt. 11:28). God did not predestine the man (which individuals would be saved & lost), He predestined the plan (how men would be saved) - read again Acts 10:34-35; Eph. 1:3-12; Rom. 8:28-30; 10:9-17.

 

[OzSpen]

Exactly. And that is why I hate it when people refer to me as a Calvinist when they find out I believe in predestination. I much prefer Reformed Theology. Nor do I like my beliefs reduced toTULIP. For the most part the sum total of reformed teaching is reduced to TULIP and called Calvinism when all the person is referring to or actually knows is the free will, predestination controversy. And some of the teachings, like the sovereignty of God, and the responsibility of man, how God is sovereign and determinate but we are not puppets, can be partly explained but also involve paradoxes and mysteries, things our finite mind can't grasp.

How would you differentiate between my Reformed Arminian theology and your Reformed theology if you don't call it Reformed Calvinistic theology?

 

[Walpole]

Well there we have it. You claiming to know what Calvinism teaches and YOU DO NOT. At least consider when I say that that I probably actually do know what I'm talking about regarding Reformation Theology (Calvinism You it) since I AM ONE, And since you aren't you may be incorrect in what you say about us.
So now I feel it necessary to set the record straight, not because I think it will change your mind, but in case someone actually believes what you said.
The God of Calvinism and the god of Islam have nothing in common. Islam does not believe that Jesus is diety. They believe that Isaac is not the true seed of Abraham but Ishmael is. They turn the Bible on its head and do not consider it God's word so no matter how much they borrow from it they are not worshiping the one true and living God.
Calvinist believe the Bible is the word of God, that Jesus is fully God and fully man, that He died, was raised from the dead, and ascended into Heaven and that He will return. They believe His death was a substitutionary death, a propitiation for the sins of those who believe. (Wow! Same thing free willers believe.)

Of course Muslims do not believe the Bible, nor do they believe in the Divinity of Christ. If they did, they would be Christians, not Muslims.

What I am referring to are the similarities between the nature of God in Islam and Calvinism.

Yes we believe God has pure will, I guess, whatever you mean by pure will. That's a new one to me. We believe that God is sovereign over all things, controls all things, determines all things because He wouldn't be God otherwise. Plus the Bible says these things about God. This does not mean that we believe man is God's puppet. It does not mean that we believe man doesn't make any actual choices. What it DOES mean is that we believe the will of man cannot thwart God's will, and before you say man disobeys God's will all the time, that IS NOT what I'm talking about. What I'm saying is God's will is absolutely free and man's is not. God can and will stop a person from following his own will if it is going to alter His short or long range purposes. He may ALLOW us to do as we please and bear the consequences or reap the benefits, but that does not mean our will is absolutely free.

God is either Logos or Voluntas; that is, either reason or pure will. If He is the Logos, then by His nature He acts with reason and love. Therefore to not act in accordance with reason and love would be contrary to His very nature.

By contrast, if He acts with pure will, then He acts above and contra-reason. He is unconstrained by any principle or any reason and hence capriciousness is essential to His very nature. Thus He can and does act completely arbitrarily. In Calvinism and Islam, God acts Voluntas.

And I have no idea what you mean by God's fatalism. Do you possibly mean the fatalism PEOPLE perceive belongs to this doctrine? I have heard that argument many times. I can only say my beliefs are anything but fatalistic. I don't feel fatalistic at all because I UNDERSTAND it. It is God's creation, including the people. We are creatures. He made us and He loves us and He cares for us. Who do you think your breakfast this morning came from? He cares for the saved and unsaved alike. He has a plan for redemption. That is the whole role and purpose of the Bible is. First to reveal Himself to us, His character and nature, and second to give us hope by showing us this plan of redemption. The plan, God's plan was laid out by Him long before we even fell. In detail and exactness. He does not change it or alter it according to what our wills or we in other words, May or may not do. It is set this plan. It is established. It will unfold according to His purpose and plan. I don't focus on whether or not I like it or whether or not God is being fair, I focus on Redemption and am GRATEFUL to Him. It's His world after all. It doesn't really matter if you believe God chose you or you chose Him. Either way you are in Christ. Why all the bitter fuss?

By fatalism it is meant that God actually creates some for the sole purpose in taking pleasure in their destruction. He dooms them from the womb for destruction and they are created for this sole purpose. For example...

“Now, since the arrangement of all things is in the hand of God, since to him belongs the disposal of life and death, he arranges all things by his sovereign counsel, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction.” (John Calvin, Institutes, 3.23.6)

“By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death.” (Ibid, 3.21.5)

“We say, then, that Scripture clearly proves this much, that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction.” (Ibid, 3:21.6)

In Islam, God too creates some for destruction and takes pleasure by sending people to hell.

Next. You say Calvinists believe God deceives!!! I don't no where you came up with that and I don't really care but it is a bald faced LIE. There is not a Calvinist, past present or future that believes that!

In Islam, God can and does deceive. Again, this is because they believe God acts with pure will. Therefore, He is not even bound by His own commands. This nature of God is shared by Calvin, who too taught God can and does deceive. For example, as another poster pointed out, Calvin taught God deceives people by illumining their minds into thinking they are elect, only to pull the rug out from under them at the end...

“Nor do I even deny that God illumines their [reprobates] minds to this extent, that they recognize his grace; but that conviction he distinguishes from the peculiar testimony which he gives to his elect in this respect, that the reprobate never attain to the full result or to fruition. When he shows himself propitious to them, it is not as if he had truly rescued them from death, and taken them under his protection. He only gives them a manifestation of his present mercy.” (Institutes, 3.2.11)

As for God being an iconoclast, not sure in what way you mean that. If you mean He attacks cherished beliefs or institutions, He is the One true God after all. If you mean He destroys idols, why not. He says to have no other gods before us. God is all about TRUTH and His truth is the REAL truth.

Iconoclasm is a rejection of the Incarnation. By virtue of the Incarnation, God has revealed Himself to be the first and ultimate iconographer. By becoming man, God has entered into His creation and thus now given man an image of Himself. In Christ, we now have the image of the invisible God. (cf. Col 1:15)

Icons are strictly prohibited in Islam, as well as in Calvinism.

Divine dictation? Divine inspiration (what the Calvinists and most Christians believe) is not the same thing as divine dictation. And yes Calvinists believe in scripture alone but Islam does not. They accept the writings of Mohammed to be superior to our Bible.

Muslims and Calvinists are sola Scriptura and both do believe in divine dictation. Mohammad was commanded to write. And yes, Calvin also taught divine dictation...

"But as the Lord was pleased that doctrine should exist in a clearer and more ample form, the better to satisfy weak consciences, he commanded the prophecies also to be committed to writing, and to be held part of his word. To these at the same time were added historical details, which are also the composition of prophets, but dictated by the Holy Spirit;" (Institutes, 4.8.6)[/QUOTE]

 

[Walpole]

Mohammed was a self proclaimed prophet, not of God who wrote the Quran because of his hatred towards Jews and Christians. Islam believes in the virgin birth, but also that Mary remained a virgin for the rest of her life. Islam regards Jesus as only a human prophet born of a virgin, but not the Son of God so you can not compare Islam with Calvinism.

Of course Muslims do not accept the divinity of Christ or the Christian Scriptures. If they did, they would be Christians, not Muslims.

Please read my post prior to this one. When I discuss the similarities between Islam and Calvinism, I am referring to their shared beliefs on the nature of God (primarily that God acts with pure will).

 

[OzSpen]

I don't really want to go back and read it but you certainly missed the point of what I said when you called it hyperbole. Evidently that was the sum total of what you got out of what I said. Here is what I have concluded. You miss the point and don't even know it because you are metaphorically "not listening". Instead you are thinking about what you are going to say.

Get th e point?

They are easy to find on page 5. Search for #84 and #87. Could you have an unwillingness to search for what I wrote?

 

[Boaz]

They are easy to find on page 5. Search for #84 and #87. Could you have an unwillingness to search for what I wrote?

Boredom. Sick of this "conversation"

 

[Boaz]

Of course Muslims do not believe the Bible, nor do they believe in the Divinity of Christ. If they did, they would be Christians, not Muslims.

What I am referring to are the similarities between the nature of God in Islam and Calvinism.




God is either Logos or Voluntas; that is, either reason or pure will. If He is the Logos, then by His nature He acts with reason and love. Therefore to not act in accordance with reason and love would be contrary to His very nature.

By contrast, if He acts with pure will, then He acts above and contra-reason. He is unconstrained by any principle or any reason and hence capriciousness is essential to His very nature. Thus He can and does act completely arbitrarily. In Calvinism and Islam, God acts Voluntas.




By fatalism it is meant that God actually creates some for the sole purpose in taking pleasure in their destruction. He dooms them from the womb for destruction and they are created for this sole purpose. For example...

“Now, since the arrangement of all things is in the hand of God, since to him belongs the disposal of life and death, he arranges all things by his sovereign counsel, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction.” (John Calvin, Institutes, 3.23.6)

“By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death.” (Ibid, 3.21.5)

“We say, then, that Scripture clearly proves this much, that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction.” (Ibid, 3:21.6)

In Islam, God too creates some for destruction and takes pleasure by sending people to hell.




In Islam, God can and does deceive. Again, this is because they believe God acts with pure will. Therefore, He is not even bound by His own commands. This nature of God is shared by Calvin, who too taught God can and does deceive. For example, as another poster pointed out, Calvin taught God deceives people by illumining their minds into thinking they are elect, only to pull the rug out from under them at the end...

“Nor do I even deny that God illumines their [reprobates] minds to this extent, that they recognize his grace; but that conviction he distinguishes from the peculiar testimony which he gives to his elect in this respect, that the reprobate never attain to the full result or to fruition. When he shows himself propitious to them, it is not as if he had truly rescued them from death, and taken them under his protection. He only gives them a manifestation of his present mercy.” (Institutes, 3.2.11)




Iconoclasm is a rejection of the Incarnation. By virtue of the Incarnation, God has revealed Himself to be the first and ultimate iconographer. By becoming man, God has entered into His creation and thus now given man an image of Himself. In Christ, we now have the image of the invisible God. (cf. Col 1:15)

Icons are strictly prohibited in Islam, as well as in Calvinism.




Muslims and Calvinists are sola Scriptura and both do believe in divine dictation. Mohammad was commanded to write. And yes, Calvin also taught divine dictation...

"But as the Lord was pleased that doctrine should exist in a clearer and more ample form, the better to satisfy weak consciences, he commanded the prophecies also to be committed to writing, and to be held part of his word. To these at the same time were added historical details, which are also the composition of prophets, but dictated by the Holy Spirit;" (Institutes, 4.8.6)

[/QUOTE]
Calvinists, if we must use that word, do not believe that God acts without reason or love. To say that His will is above and over our will is not saying that He acts without reason or love. To say He is unconstrained by any principle and therefore capricious and arbitrary in what He does is just not true as being what Calvinists believe. We say God always acts from His holiness and perfection, always according to His character. That some go to hell and some don't is not the ARBITRARY choice of God. We ALL deserve hell because of our transgressions, and are in sense are all born that way, in that we are born of Adam. That some are saved is His mercy and love. That some are not, is His justice, which has to be wielded because of His character as Holy. He COULD have saved everyone, as Universalism believes, but then He would have to abandon justice. Justice exists IN God. All true Christains believe this. And just because as humans, we don't LIKE some things about God, that doesn't make us right and God wrong.

The quotes you gave from Calvin regarding the various issues are using language and phrasing that is unfamiliar to us and thus easily misunderstood. And admittedly he could have said it better. I know however, from other things he has said, that He did NOT mean what you are suggesting, so that it agrees with Islam.
On iconoclasim you say it is a rejection of the incarnation. Islam certainly does that but Calvin certainly did not. Also, God did not say He didn't have an image or prohibit Himself from giving us n image of Himself for our benefit, He told US not to worship a man-made image Him or any other god. The image of God seen in Christ any case isn't an actual representation of what God LOOKS like but rather a statement of Jesus's deity and also presenting in visible tangible form, to us, what He is doing and through Whom.
Dictation was a poor choice of words on Calvin's part. I know he didn't mean automatic writing.
In conclusion, I do not like Reformed Theology referred to as Calvinism, as though he was the only one involved in the reformation.for the entire theology to be reduced to tulip. I did not arrive at my beliefs by studying Calvin.

 

[for_his_glory]

Mohammad was commanded to write.

There are no similarities between the nature of God in Islam and Calvinism and no one commanded Mohammed to write the Quran. Islam's Allah is not the same God we serve.

Here's some history about Mohammed:

From the early days of Islam to today's globally televised beheadings, Muslims are simply acting-out what Mohammed believed, and what the Quran teaches. And when Quranic Law was given the opportunity to govern, its violent, 7th century intolerance was seen through the eyes of Afghanistan's Taliban - a view of converting and uniting the Arab world under Islamic Law by sword first, and everyone else second.

What truly is at the heart of the Islamist hatred today is no different than that which fueled Mohammed's hatred as he wrote the Quran. It is the belief and goal of a one-world, global Islamic empire run by Quranic Law whereby everyone must, in the end, convert to their fundamentalist ideology or face beheading. The hatred that fuels this theocracy dates back to Ishmael and his son-in-law Esau, and from there, compounded to form the foundations of Islamicism which is the reason why most of the world conflicts today involve Muslims.

Mohammed claimed descent from Ishmael's son Kedar). At the age of 25, Mohammed married a 40 year-old wealthy, widow named Khadijah who owned trading caravans. Traveling as a representative of Khadija's various business interests, Mohammed was exposed to many Jews and Christians and became enthralled by their theology, particularly their concept of a single deity. It was at this time he began to envision a single, united Arab state under a single 'god.'

Secular history records that in 610, by which time Mohammed had become the leader of his tribe, he was in a cave meditating and seeking to discover which of the jinni was indeed most powerful and worthy to become the tribal jinni of his family.

A jinni: one of a class of spirits that according to Muslim demonology inhabit he earth, assumes various forms and exercise supernatural power.

Mohammed was in fact a terrorist, criminal, and murderer whose entire life and teachings were based on victimizing innocents and indulging in mindless violence and massacre. He was a man who destroyed peace wherever he went, and in its place brought terror, carnage, and death. So how can it be a mystery to anyone that his teachings - the Quran - would reap a harvest any different than what the world is experiencing today?

The Prophet Mohammed urges Muslims to fight in the cause of Allah:

"Verily, Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in rows as if they were solid Structures." (Surat As-Saff 61:4)

"O prophet Mohammed urge the believers (Muslims) to fight. If there be of you 20 steadfast, they will overcome 200 and if there be of you a 100, they shall overcome a 1000, because the disbelievers are a folk without intelligence." (Surat Al-Anfal 8:65)

This Surat clearly exposes Islam to be a religion that not only encourages violence but actually makes it a sacred duty for Muslims to kill anyone who does not believe in Islam. Not only is the all forgiving Allah exhorting his followers to kill anyone who is not Muslim, but he is also saying that all non-Muslims are so stupid that they will be unable to defend themselves and therefore deserve death!

The Quran commands Muslims not to befriend Jews or Christians:

"O ye who believe (Muslims) take not the Jews or the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them." (Surat Al-Maidah 5:51)


It commands Muslims to fight Jews and Christians:

"Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (Mohammed) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." (Surah At-Taubah 9:29)


Jizyah is a special high tax to be paid only by Jews or Christians who do not want to renounce their religion and convert to Islam (this Quranic Law is still practiced today in much of the Muslim world).

I could go on and on, but this is enough to show Mohammed was a self appointed prophet fixated on the destruction of Jews and Christians which still exist today as they fight for world domination which will never happen.

 

[OzSpen]

Boredom. Sick of this "conversation"

That's what I thought. When your views are challenged from Scripture, you become 'sick of this "conversation"'.

Bye Bye,

 

[for_his_glory]

This thread is getting snarky and if does not quit disciplinary actions will be taken and the thread closed permanently. This is my last warning.

 

[GodsGrace]

The puppet thing. I don't know that I can adequately explain it, it's kind of a paradox. I know I don't feel like a puppet and I don't act like a puppet and I don't look like a puppet so I must not be a puppet. Ha, ha. It has to do with the type of being God created us to be, made in His image and likeness for one. I see the image and likeness as we were created to sort of an ANALOGY of God, but of course not God Himself. We would never be omnipotent, omnipresent or omniscient. We would bound within time and space. Yet we would also have some of His characteristics. We can think.And feel and reason and we are creative though we can never create something from nothing. We can only use what God has already created. We can make choices and decisions. We still possess these things after the fall only now that we have the knowledge of good and evil, and as the Bible says, we bend the wrong way so to speak, our will is not free anymore. It's not that God forbids us to use our will, it is that His will overrides ours when necessary to further His plans or purposes. It all falls into that other paradox, God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. The argument against the elect is it means God forcing us to believe, thereby rendering us puppets isn't valid though I certainly see their argument. In my system of belief, it is God doing a powerful and wonderful changing work in me so that I was ABLE to believe. Even if He did it by making me a puppet, if that's what it took, I would STILL be grateful.
And the deceiving. I don't doubt someone may have said that but it is not the position of Calvinism as it was presented. God in no way makes anyone THINK they are saved for them to find out they are not. How would anyone know that anyway unless the followed them into hell, or they came back from hell and told. LOL LOL. If someone thinks they are saved and are not, they did that thinking all on their own. And as we have discussed before what determines salvation is belief in the content of the Gospel. Salvation is not determined by whether you believe you chose God or God chose you. I just hope this all made some sort of sense!
And we have all read the parable of the seed and the different soils.

Hey R,
I don't wish to turn this into a debate since I dislike long, drawn out debates....but the above does not answer my question about how the Reformed do not think of themselves as puppets.
Here is page 155 of the Institutes of John Calvin:

The sum of the whole is this,—since the will of God is said to be the cause of all things, all the counsels and actions of men must be held to be governed by his providence; so that he not only exerts his power in the elect, who are guided by the Holy Spirit, but also forces the reprobate to do him service.

It states that the will of God is the cause of all things, all actions of men are governed by his providence so that He exerts His power on the elect AND the non-elect, or reprobate.

So how does one have any choice at all in the face of the above statement?

You said you make choices every day?
What choices?

Choice means having two alternatives from which you can FREELY choose one with no outside force, and from which you could have easily chosen the other. This is Libertarian free will, which is MY belief.

This aspect of reformed theology really baffles me.

 

[Boaz]

Hey R,
I don't wish to turn this into a debate since I dislike long, drawn out debates....but the above does not answer my question about how the Reformed do not think of themselves as puppets.
Here is page 155 of the Institutes of John Calvin:

The sum of the whole is this,—since the will of God is said to be the cause of all things, all the counsels and actions of men must be held to be governed by his providence; so that he not only exerts his power in the elect, who are guided by the Holy Spirit, but also forces the reprobate to do him service.

It states that the will of God is the cause of all things, all actions of men are governed by his providence so that He exerts His power on the elect AND the non-elect, or reprobate.

So how does one have any choice at all in the face of the above statement?

You said you make choices every day?
What choices?

Choice means having two alternatives from which you can FREELY choose one with no outside force, and from which you could have easily chosen the other. This is Libertarian free will, which is MY belief.

This aspect of reformed theology really baffles me.

W, good to hear from you.
I agree it is baffling! I really don't know how to precisely explain it but there are many mysteries in God, the being that is God. Eternal, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, who always was and is and ever more shall be, who created all we see and can't see by speaking it into existence, everything perfectly designed for its purpose, all things held together. These are things we believe (Faith) yet we cannot begin to explain or grasp them. Man was created to have responsibilities towards God, as well as the world He gave us. And responsibility carries with it the necessarily of choices. How do these two things, God's sovereignty and our responsibility (choices) both exist at the same time? I can't explain it I only know that it exists because it is obvious from scripture that they do. Which is why people get in such arguments over it, pitting scripture against scripture. I feel that God directs my footsteps and I always ASK Him to. I may go in what seems to me a convoluted way but always in hindsight I see that way was the best. That great good for me and others came about that wouldn't have any other way. He directs the world. He raises up kings and brings them down. The story of Hezekiah in 2Kings, chapters 18 & 19 are a prime example of people doing exactly as the pleased, making their very own choices and it shows that behind the scene God was using their actions to accomplish His purposes. This is repeated in Is. 36,37. One of my favorite things in the Bible btw.

I used to puzzle over your very question, searching and searching for the answer, without success. I stopped worrying about it because it really doesn't matter in the long run. I live my life, putting most things before God, and always the big decision and I simply ask Him to lead me where He wants me to go and stop me from going the wrong way. I live my life as a HUMAN, since that is I am. I have no choice but to let God be God. And I trust Him.

I have read Calvin's "Institutes" because I figured it really ought to be required reading for Christians, no matter which side of the free will issue you fall on. I read it after I was already Reformed. I did not come by my beliefs by studying Calvin.

 

[JohnDB]

Enough...
We are not going to engage in the merits or demerits of Calvinism on this forum.
Especially when our Moderator has asked you to stop.

 

[Prycejosh1987]

John 10:1"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber.

I didnt understand what this meant until recently. I think it means that thief and robbers refer to false teachers and preachers that lead people away from the truth.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I didnt understand what this meant until recently. I think it means that thief and robbers refer to false teachers and preachers that lead people away from the truth.

Actually, John 10:7 tells us what verse one is referencing. So Jesus said to them again, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. Ppl try many avenues to gain entrance into heaven, but only the Christ is the Door where ppl can find it.