The "EVENTS" of salvation.

[billybalke]

Rom 6:3 Or are you ignorant that all who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

1Co 12:13 For also we all were baptized by one Spirit into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, even all were given to drink into one Spirit.

Gal 3:27 For as many as were baptized into Christ, you put on Christ.

Gal 2:16 knowing that a man is not justified by works of Law, but that it is through faith in Jesus Christ (we also believed into Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of Law, because all flesh will not be justified by works of Law).

Col 2:11-13 in whom also you were circumcised with a circumcision not made by hands, in the putting off of the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, being buried with Him in baptism, in whom also you were raised through the faith of the working of God, raising Him from among the dead. And you, being dead in the deviations and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all the deviations,

Tit 3:5 He saved us . . . by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

The above scriptures indeed teach that baptism puts one "into" Christ. This being true they conflict with your statement in point 1 and the four dots under it which list the items which immediately happen when one believes.

 

[Gregg T]

The above scriptures indeed teach that baptism puts one "into" Christ. This being true they conflict with your statement in point 1 and the four dots under it which list the items which immediately happen when one believes.

more Soteriological / Theological Dyslexia Syndrome (STDS), because:

1. baptism does not preceed believing, else prove it
2. being put into Christ does not preceed believing, else prove it
3. being saved does not preceed believing, else prove it

Give some substance to your arguments, guys, instead of just saying it conflicts. Substantiate your arguments, else it is mere opinion, psycology, and philosophy.

 

[billybalke]

more Soteriological / Theological Dyslexia Syndrome (STDS), because:

1. baptism does not preceed believing, else prove it
2. being put into Christ does not preceed believing, else prove it
3. being saved does not preceed believing, else prove it

Give some substance to your arguments, guys, instead of just saying it conflicts. Substantiate your arguments, else it is mere opinion, psycology, and philosophy.

I did not say baptism preceedes believing.
I did not say being put into Christ preceeds believing.
I did not say being saved preceeds believing.

How you came to that conclusion is beyond me.

 

[Gregg T]

The above scriptures indeed teach that baptism puts one "into" Christ. This being true they conflict with your statement in point 1 and the four dots under it which list the items which immediately happen when one believes.

Regarding the 1st and 4th words of the 2nd sentence above, "This" and "they"
- I understood "This" and "they" as a reference to "The above scriptures" from the 1st sentence
- I read your 2nd sentence to say "The above scriptures being true, the above scriptures conflict with your statement in point 1 . . ."

I did not say baptism preceedes believing.
I did not say being put into Christ preceeds believing.
I did not say being saved preceeds believing.

How you came to that conclusion is beyond me.

If I read it wrong, then my bad.

 

[Nathan]

Is it believed that a person has to believe in Christ before God makes them alive in Christ?

 

[Willie T]

Is one saved before or after the second B? HBRCB

You now know why I left that church more than 30 years ago. LOL ☺

 

[JLB]

Do you deny one can read his New Testament and understand what to do?

If they have the Spirit of God, they can.


JLB

 

[billybalke]

If they have the Spirit of God, they can.


JLB

Scripture?

 

[JLB]

Scripture?

Here it is again.

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

Example:

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8


Abraham heard the voice of God speaking to him, which produced faith.

No scripture; He heard God speak.


By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7


Noah obeyed the voice of God, which produced faith.

No scripture; He heard God speak


Now, it's your turn to show scripture that teaches us faith comes by reading the scripture.


If that were true, then Saul of Tarsus would have been a great man of faith, rather than a persecutor of the Church.


Here is the process:

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!” Romans 10:14-15




JLB

 

[Cygnus]

Really! My posts can be characterized by 'playing' and 'concepts.'

I quoted a Scripture which says that Christians are glorifed, myself being one of them.

I've also provided some well thought out in-depth substantial groundwork in my responses.

Perhaps you will also.

Gregg, I'm not trying to start a fuss with you...but were not glorified yet...nor are we sanctified.

 

[Cygnus]

Is it believed that a person has to believe in Christ before God makes them alive in Christ?

I would say you can't believe unless God quickens you first.

 

[billybalke]

Here it is again.

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

Example:

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8


Abraham heard the voice of God speaking to him, which produced faith.

No scripture; He heard God speak.


By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7


Noah obeyed the voice of God, which produced faith.

No scripture; He heard God speak


Now, it's your turn to show scripture that teaches us faith comes by reading the scripture.


If that were true, then Saul of Tarsus would have been a great man of faith, rather than a persecutor of the Church.


Here is the process:

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!” Romans 10:14-15




JLB

One question. Is the Bible, now fully completed the word of God?

 

[billybalke]

Here it is again.

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

Example:

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8


Abraham heard the voice of God speaking to him, which produced faith.

No scripture; He heard God speak.


By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7


Noah obeyed the voice of God, which produced faith.

No scripture; He heard God speak


Now, it's your turn to show scripture that teaches us faith comes by reading the scripture.


If that were true, then Saul of Tarsus would have been a great man of faith, rather than a persecutor of the Church.


Here is the process:

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!” Romans 10:14-15




JLB

Question, is the scripture, both the old and new testaments, now completed, the word of God?

 

[Willie T]

Few of us ever read that correctly.
Faith in ANYTHING comes from repeatedly hearing about it. ANYTHING! Hitler convinced Germany of the horribleness of Jews through repeated propaganda. The Democrats are convincing America that Russia got Trump elected by the same repeated propaganda.
If we listen, repeatedly, to the word of God, we develop faith in it. That "faith" does not just zap us up 'side the head because we hear it mentioned once.

 

[JLB]

Question, is the scripture, both the old and new testaments, now completed, the word of God?

The scriptures are the Logos.

Faith does not come by reading the Logos, but rather by hearing the Rhema voice of God speaking to us.

• Rhema - that which is or has been uttered by the living voice, thing spoken, word

Man does not live [have eternal life] by bread alone but on every word [Rhema] that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word [Rhema] that proceeds from the mouth of God. Matthew 4:4

This was true before Moses wrote the Torah.

4 And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:4-5


Abraham walked by faith, which means he walked in relationship with God, and obeyed His voice, the word of God which produces faith in the hearer.

This is the life God calls us to, when we repent, and turn to Him by confessing Him as Lord.

He is our Lord if we obey Him.

Your Master or Lord is the one you obey: ... you are that one’s slaves whom you obey

Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16

again

“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? Luke 6:46



JLB

 

[JLB]

Few of us ever read that correctly.
Faith in ANYTHING comes from repeatedly hearing about it. ANYTHING! Hitler convinced Germany of the horribleness of Jews through repeated propaganda. The Democrats are convincing America that Russia got Trump elected by the same repeated propaganda.
If we listen, repeatedly, to the word of God, we develop faith in it. That "faith" does not just zap us up 'side the head because we hear it mentioned once.

You may be referring to being hypnotized, by hearing something over and over, but that is not faith.

Faith only comes from hearing God's word, Rhema; Him speaking to us.

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7

• Nothing else produces faith.

8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8


God spoke to Abraham, which produced faith in him.




JLB

 

[Willie T]

You may be referring to being hypnotized, by hearing something over and over, but that is not faith.

Faith only comes from hearing God's word, Rhema; Him speaking to us.

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7

• Nothing else produces faith.

8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8


God spoke to Abraham, which produced faith in him.




JLB

No, not at all. ("Faith" is not a magic Spiritual word. We humans all have "faith" in a variety of different things.......... some having nothing at all to do with God.)

I am speaking about doing what the Bible tells us to do.... get in the word, stay in the word, study, reason together, discuss and encourage, speak back and forth to one another..... and communicate in prayer.

Too many people think there is some sort of "magic" in the spoken word bouncing off our ear drums. If that were so, every single person Jesus or the disciples spoke to would have believed. Many thousands did not.

 

[JLB]

No, not at all.
I am speaking about doing what the Bible tells us to do.... get in the word, stay in the word, study, reason together, discuss and encourage, speak back and forth to one another..... and communicate in prayer.

Amen to that!

 

[Willie T]

We probably should be able to ask ourselves why that particular verse wasn't just simply written:
"Faith comes through hearing the word of God."

I think it was so that we would know to be careful what we listen to.

 

[Cygnus]

Few of us ever read that correctly.
Faith in ANYTHING comes from repeatedly hearing about it. ANYTHING! Hitler convinced Germany of the horribleness of Jews through repeated propaganda. The Democrats are convincing America that Russia got Trump elected by the same repeated propaganda.
If we listen, repeatedly, to the word of God, we develop faith in it. That "faith" does not just zap us up 'side the head because we hear it mentioned once.

I think faith can be built upon by reading the Bible