The Fate of Unbelieving Children

[for_his_glory]

I'm confused....
First you say that children don't inherit their parents sin. Then you say we inherited Adam's sin. Did King David's son inherit the Original Sin and therefore is condemned as an unbeliever?

Then you quote King David who also said this about his son who was conceived in literal sin. The child died a physical death by God's hand. But.....

"2Sa 12:22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?
2Sa 12:23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
2Sa 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the LORD loved him."



Does scripture say those Amalekite babies will stand at the White Throne judgement?
Did God saved His own when He had them attacked by the Assyrians or the Babylonians?
Any time there is temporal war, innocents die temporal deaths.

I didn't say we inherited Adams sin. I said we are all born with a sin nature. Adams sin was imputed, or other words, Adams sin has attributed to everyone being born with that same attribute.

I never said anything about King Davids first son, but did give scripture about his other son Solomon that he was of God even before the womb, Judges 13:3-5.

Yes, I believe the children of the Amalekites and the Egyptians plus the babies of Sodom and Gomorrah or any other seed of Satan will go to the lake of fire as God judges the secret intentions of the heart. There are two seeds with one being the seed of promise and the other the seed of Satan. I'm not talking about the spawn of Satan, I am talking about the darkness of an evil heart and the seed or offspring that comes with it.

Yes I agree anytime there is war many innocent die as in the seed of Abraham, but also those who are not innocent as they die in the seed of Satan. Only God can judge those deep things of the heart that are kept in secret.

 

[for_his_glory]

It seems for_his_glory is for_his_prophecy.

What type of believers were Abraham's mother and father?

You really do not have to be rude!!!

Terah was an idolater and his mother Amatlai was a Horite from the Temple of Karnak, but it makes no difference who his parents were as Abraham was also of the seed of Shem who had favor in the Lord.

 

[Lady Terra]

I'm confused....
First you say that children don't inherit their parents sin. Then you say we inherited Adam's sin. Did King David's son inherit the Original Sin and therefore is condemned as an unbeliever?

Then you quote King David who also said this about his son who was conceived in literal sin. The child died a physical death by God's hand. But.....

"2Sa 12:22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?
2Sa 12:23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
2Sa 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the LORD loved him."



Does scripture say those Amalekite babies will stand at the White Throne judgement?
Did God saved His own when He had them attacked by the Assyrians or the Babylonians?
Any time there is temporal war, innocents die temporal deaths.

We all inherited Adam"s sinful nature. Children do not inherit damnation for their parent's sins. Give me a few, I will go dig up some scriptures. It has been awhile for me. I have been away from Bible study for years. Here I go. I will return shortly.

 

[King James]

Eternal suffering in a lake of hell fire. Too bad for those remote tribes that never encountered civilization.

 

[Lady Terra]

We all inherited Adam"s sinful nature. Children do not inherit damnation for their parent's sins. Give me a few, I will go dig up some scriptures. It has been awhile for me. I have been away from Bible study for years. Here I go. I will return shortly.

Romans 5:12 tells us that, through Adam, sin entered the world and so death was passed on to all men because all have sinned. This passed-on sin is known as inherited sin. Just as we inherit physical characteristics from our parents, we inherit our sinful nature from Adam.

 

[for_his_glory]

Do you extend this to ALL infants? Best to kill them rather than have them grow up and follow after their father's way?

Or that these children are therefore liable to some kind of eternal punishment for having been born into a certain family?

Is being Fathered by an Amalekite or Egyptian sufficient reason to condemn an infant eternally than if they were instead born to a Jew or Christian?


What?

“And the LORD heard your words and was angered, and he swore, 35 ‘Not one of these men of this evil generation shall see the good land that I swore to give to your fathers, 36 except Caleb the son of Jephunneh. He shall see it, and to him and to his children I will give the land on which he has trodden, because he has wholly followed the LORD!’ 37 Even with me the LORD was angry on your account and said, ‘You also shall not go in there. 38 Joshua the son of Nun, who stands before you, he shall enter. Encourage him, for he shall cause Israel to inherit it. 39 And as for your little ones, who you said would become a prey, and your children, who today have no knowledge of good or evil, they shall go in there. And to them I will give it, and they shall possess it. 40 But as for you, turn, and journey into the wilderness in the direction of the Red Sea.’ Deuteronomy 1:34-40 (ESV)

This is referring to the next generation of Israelites, this is revealed even more so by the statement, "who you said would become a prey." They said this in Numbers 14:3.

Why is the LORD bringing us into this land, to fall by the sword? Our wives and our little ones will become a prey. Would it not be better for us to go back to Egypt?” Numbers 14:3 (ESV)

God is alluding back to this time when they said this, and he said these little ones, who today (they were alive at that moment) have no knowledge of good or evil shall go in there.

This is definitively proven.


You understand that Isaiah's prophecies often had a dual fulfillment. This one in particular referring to Shear-jashub his son. It helps if you read the entirety of the Chapter and the surrounding context.


How does a child who is innocent and cannot knowingly commit sin accountable for his actions?

Do you understand what accountability is?


We are logically employing the Scriptures, as it doesn't directly speak to the fate of unbelieving infants. It apparently didn't vex the writers enough to include such I think which I believe is because it would have been quite simple for them to work out.


What?


In Romans 14, who is the "us"?

Also, how does would one give an account for the actions of an infant.

"Child, why did you steal the cookie from the cookie jar?" the resurrected infant, now adult responds, "uh I was a baby and the cookie jar was put within my grasp and I had no concept of individual property." "NO EXCUSE!!!"

It's like one has to forget everything they know about children in order to embrace this belief.


They are GUILTY of being born into an Amalekite and Egyptian family, therefore they are liable to eternal punishment?

Disgusting.

Why would God order all the firstborn males to be killed if he thought any of them would follow after him?

Deuteronomy 1:39 if you go back to vs. 38 you see Joshua is about to enter into Canaan to posses it with all Gods people as this was at the end of the forty year period in the desert. The people were weary from all their travels and what they had faced along the way and thought surely of they posses this land the Canaanites would come against them and their children would fall prey to them

Isaiah 7:16 if you go back to vs. 13 you will see this is talking about the prophecy of coming Messiah. That child in vs. 16 is Jesus.

Speculation is speculation, but we are also taught in scripture who are the seed od Abraham and those who of their Father the devil.

Romans 14:12 the us is everyone that has ever been given breath from God. Only God can judge the secret intents of the heart as in all of us ibcluding infants. All means all as it never defines an age.

Who teaches a child to lie or take temper tantrums?

Guilty! only God can judge the secret intents of the heart.

 

[Lady Terra]

That is before Christ and his new covenant?

 

[jasonc]

Why would God order all the firstborn males to be killed if he thought any of them would follow after him?

Deuteronomy 1:39 if you go back to vs. 38 you see Joshua is about to enter into Canaan to posses it with all Gods people as this was at the end of the forty year period in the desert. The people were weary from all their travels and what they had faced along the way and thought surely of they posses this land the Canaanites would come against them and their children would fall prey to them

Isaiah 7:16 if you go back to vs. 13 you will see this is talking about the prophecy of coming Messiah. That child in vs. 16 is Jesus.

Speculation is speculation, but we are also taught in scripture who are the seed od Abraham and those who of their Father the devil.

Romans 14:12 the us is everyone that has ever been given breath from God. Only God can judge the secret intents of the heart as in all of us ibcluding infants. All means all as it never defines an age.

Who teaches a child to lie or take temper tantrums?

Guilty! only God can judge the secret intents of the heart.

so why would the god spare the babies of those that did the first peshach? did he know that they would serve him? btw those babies did serve him the parents save two all died.

 

[Lady Terra]

I understand but, that was old testament.

 

[chessman]

We are talking about dead infants and you say this about them:

I am talking about the darkness of an evil heart and the seed or offspring that comes with it.

those who are not innocent as they die in the seed of Satan.

And you call me rude??? That's a warped since of what's rude.

 

[Deborah13]

Why would God order all the firstborn males to be killed if he thought any of them would follow after him?

Deuteronomy 1:39 if you go back to vs. 38 you see Joshua is about to enter into Canaan to posses it with all Gods people as this was at the end of the forty year period in the desert. The people were weary from all their travels and what they had faced along the way and thought surely of they posses this land the Canaanites would come against them and their children would fall prey to them

Isaiah 7:16 if you go back to vs. 13 you will see this is talking about the prophecy of coming Messiah. That child in vs. 16 is Jesus.

Yes exactly it is saying the even the Messiah Jesus as a baby and as a young child did not have the knowledge of evil vs good. He had to learn it and fix on the good.
Obviously if He didn't no other child does either.
So to say that God punishes innocent children with eternal torment in fire is what....?

This is what God said about people who did just that.
Jer 19:4 Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the blood of innocents;
Jer 19:5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:
Jer 19:6 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The valley of the son of Hinnom, but The valley of slaughter.

Jer 32:35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin

Speculation is speculation, but we are also taught in scripture who are the seed od Abraham and those who of their Father the devil.

Romans 14:12 the us is everyone that has ever been given breath from God. Only God can judge the secret intents of the heart as in all of us ibcluding infants. All means all as it never defines an age.

Who teaches a child to lie or take temper tantrums?

Guilty! only God can judge the secret intents of the heart.

 

[Lady Terra]

Jesus was not a natural conception? He was conceived of the Holy Ghost. How would he be the same? I am sure he had to stumble and craw to learn to walk but, born of the same nature as us. I don't see that possible.

 

[Deborah13]

Jesus was not a natural conception? He was conceived of the Holy Ghost. How would he be the same? I am sure he had to stumble and craw to learn to walk but, born of the same nature as us. I don't see that possible.

Jesus was 100% man, 100% God.
He was not born with a sinful nature. That's not what this is about.
This is about babies and small child having knowledge of the difference between what is good and what is evil.
KJV
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isa 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

ESV
14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. 15 He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Why would God order all the firstborn males to be killed if he thought any of them would follow after him?

Irrelevant, infants are not capable of doing anything. God judges based upon what we do, not what we might do.

Therefore, how are these infants then liable to eternal judgment at the resurrection?

Deuteronomy 1:39 if you go back to vs. 38 you see Joshua is about to enter into Canaan to posses it with all Gods people as this was at the end of the forty year period in the desert. The people were weary from all their travels and what they had faced along the way and thought surely of they posses this land the Canaanites would come against them and their children would fall prey to them

He was speaking generally about their children.

Isaiah 7:16 if you go back to vs. 13 you will see this is talking about the prophecy of coming Messiah. That child in vs. 16 is Jesus.

Read the whole chapter please, then come talk to me.

Speculation is speculation, but we are also taught in scripture who are the seed od Abraham and those who of their Father the devil.

I have firm evidence, this isn't speculation. The burden is on you folks to try and demonstrate how God could be good and just and condemn infants to hell.

Romans 14:12 the us is everyone that has ever been given breath from God.

Is it?

Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; Romans 14:10 (ESV)

Paul's point is to argue against people who were passing judgment and despising their brothers in Christ over opinions such as what day to honor. He then told them to remember the fact that all of them were to stand before the judgment seat of God and that they would have to give an account to him.

How is it possible for an infant to give an account? Do you know what that means?

Only God can judge the secret intents of the heart as in all of us ibcluding infants. All means all as it never defines an age.

How odd it must be to view infants in this way...

Who teaches a child to lie or take temper tantrums?

Do infants know the difference between right and wrong? Do they have complete control over their faculties and reactions?

"Little Johnny, on the 14th day of May 2005 you lied to your mother about eating that candy." Johnny responds, "I was an infant, I acted on impulse." "Take this one to be eternally tormented!"

A monster of a God who would do this.

This is not who God revealed himself to be in Christ.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Hosea 4:7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.
Hosea 4:8 They eat up the sin of my people, and they set their heart on their iniquity.
Hosea 4:9 And there shall be, like people, like priest: and I will punish them for their ways, and reward them their doings.

No one wants to think that God would send a child to hell as we serve a sovereign God full of mercy and grace and extends that love towards everyone who will accept it, but according to vs.6 God says I will also forget your children. I think that is very clear what God said there. Three examples of God forgetting the children would be those children of Sodom and Gomorrah, the Amalekites children and the first born of the Egyptians. If these children had any chance of coming into the knowledge of the true God, don't you think he would have spared them! I would think so. Only God can judge the secret intents of the heart, even in newborns and those with mental handicaps. God is a just God in all his judgements. Just because I think some babies will go to the lake of fire does not make me a bad person or one without a heart, it just means we all need to face certain realities even though we might not agree with them and would think God would never send a baby to hell. I praise the Lord that his gospel message is being taught all over the world, but yet even those who hear the message refuse to accept it.

 

[for_his_glory]

Irrelevant, infants are not capable of doing anything. God judges based upon what we do, not what we might do.

Therefore, how are these infants then liable to eternal judgment at the resurrection?


He was speaking generally about their children.


Read the whole chapter please, then come talk to me.


I have firm evidence, this isn't speculation. The burden is on you folks to try and demonstrate how God could be good and just and condemn infants to hell.


Is it?

Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; Romans 14:10 (ESV)

Paul's point is to argue against people who were passing judgment and despising their brothers in Christ over opinions such as what day to honor. He then told them to remember the fact that all of them were to stand before the judgment seat of God and that they would have to give an account to him.

How is it possible for an infant to give an account? Do you know what that means?


How odd it must be to view infants in this way...


Do infants know the difference between right and wrong? Do they have complete control over their faculties and reactions?

"Little Johnny, on the 14th day of May 2005 you lied to your mother about eating that candy." Johnny responds, "I was an infant, I acted on impulse." "Take this one to be eternally tormented!"

A monster of a God who would do this.

This is not who God revealed himself to be in Christ.

I truly do not see that we will ever reach any agreement with each other and that's alright as everyone has their own beliefs in how they study. Just because I believe the way I do does not make me disgusting or one who does not have a heart. It just means that I have to face certain realities in Gods word and let God be God in all his righteous judgements. I have to stand for what I believe and if I am wrong then let God be my judge and show me my error.

 

[Lady Terra]

again that is the old covenant scripture. It does not apply any more. Christ's blood covers a multitude on sin.

 

[Lady Terra]

Christ taught to forbid not the children to come unto me. Such is the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I truly do not see that we will ever reach any agreement with each other and that's alright as everyone has their own beliefs in how they study.

I believe that it should be reasonable and Scriptural.

Just because I believe the way I do does not make me disgusting or one who does not have a heart.

Your belief is disgusting, and the concept of a God who could be like this strongly repels me, but that's nothing personal against you.

It just means that I have to face certain realities in Gods word and let God be God in all his righteous judgements. I have to stand for what I believe and if I am wrong then let God be my judge and show me my error.

If God sent infants to hell then I wouldn't be a Christian. Period.

 

[for_his_glory]

I believe that it should be reasonable and Scriptural.


Your belief is disgusting, and the concept of a God who could be like this strongly repels me, but that's nothing personal against you.


If God sent infants to hell then I wouldn't be a Christian. Period.

I believe I have been responsible through scripture to believe how I believe and to draw conclusion in my belief just as you have.

It repels me too, but the possibility of reality is something to not take lightly as we mix it with emotions.

Only God would have his reason to do what is right and just and I will trust him in all his ways.