[_ Old Earth _] THe fossil record

[reznwerks]

Creationists often use the paucity of the fossil record as evidence against evolution, claiming that if the world were millions of years old, and life on Earth had evolved over such a vast period of time, then you should expect to find billions upon billions of fossilized organisms. This, as they are more than happy to point out, is not the case. However a lack of preservation is exactly what you would expect under natural conditions, as the chances of a decaying organism hanging around long enough to be preserved are remote.
However, if the fossil record were the result of a global flood, then high rates of preservation would be expected, as all organisms were subjected to the same conditions. Remember that sedimentation rates were mindblowing fast . According to creationists the Grand Canyon was created in a year! Analysis of varves also demonstrates that thousands of acres of sediment would have to have been laid down every second, so organisms would have been buried before they even had the chance to decay. Under these conditions you would expect to find billions of perfectly preserved organisms, but as any creationist will tell you, the fossil record is actually very poor.

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

When it comes to the fossil record creationists will focus on vertebrates and conveniently neglect to regard the splendid record of evolution in marine invertebrates. For brachiopd, cephalopods and other molluscs to echinoderms there are excellent and numerous examples of smooth transitional evolution occuring over time.

 

[ThinkerMan]

Most of the time, YEC's demand to witness a Chimpanzee and an Bobono give birth to a human as evidence of evolution.

Nothing else will suffice. Unfortunately for them, the theory of evolution leads nowhere down that road. It makes no such claims. If YEC's demand such proof, they are demanding proof of a claim biologists do not make.

Late_Cretaceous is exactly right, but somehow the evolutionary proof of the molluscs means nothing unless a chimpanzee can give birth to a human child within a few short years.

 

[Lewis]

Fossils can only be created by rapid burial. They are also at lost to explain, why fish fossils are found at the tops of the worlds highest peaks or mountains, the dummys, will not even concede to evidence, because they are fools. They just will not give God' His place or believe in such a thing as devine intervention, like the WORLD WIDE FLOOD. But if they don't repent and give God his place, they will receive eternal damnation, and they have nobody to blame but themselves.

 

[Quath]

They are also at lost to explain, why fish fossils are found at the tops of the worlds highest peaks or mountains, the dummys, will not even concede to evidence, because they are fools.

I am assuming that you are arguing for a global flood.

Fish fossils are on mountains because the mountains once were under water. We both agree to that. The difference is that science says the best explanation is plate tectonics. So the plates moving pushed some places under water up very high to form mountains.

Quath

 

[Lewis]

Psalms 104, is key you see God pushed up the earth and lowered it in certain places so that the water would run off, or recede. It was Divine Intervention concerning the receding of the World Wide Flood waters. The earth was not as mountainous as it is today, back then. God made changes during this time.

 

[Lewis]

Psalms 104, is key you see God pushed up the earth and lowered it in certain places so that the water would run off, or recede. It was Divine Intervention concerning the receding of the World Wide Flood waters. The earth was not as mountainous as it is today, back then. God made changes during this time.s

 

[Quath]

That same chapter says "He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved" We know that is false. So why believe the rest of it?

Quath

 

[cubedbee]

Psalms 104 isn't even about the flood, it's about the Creation.

Read more here:
http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/psalm104.html

 

[Lewis]

Here are few verses.

PS 104:8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.
PS 104:9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.

JOB 38:8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?


The earth spins just right on it's axes, and the other planets have just enough gravitational pull, to keep it just where it is, on it's foundations. No man can move it out of it's place.

You people kill me when the Bible says things like the foundations of the earth like in this case you take it to fit what you want it to fit.

the Bilble uses language like Going down of the sun. But yet in the newspaper or when the weather man, says sun rise, or sun down you say nothing. When we know that the sun does not rise or go down. The same with the Bible it uses certain words to explain certain things. Now the words the foundation can't be moved is correct, let me see you or any other man or any man made power move it. Let me see you move it out of the grasp of it's orbit by the forces that keep it there.

 

[Lewis]

Here are few verses.

PS 104:8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.
PS 104:9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.

JOB 38:8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?


The earth spins just right on it's axes, and the other planets have just enough gravitational pull, to keep it just where it is, on it's foundations. No man can move it out of it's place.

You people kill me when the Bible says things like the foundations of the earth like in this case you take it to fit what you want it to fit.

the Bilble uses language like Going down of the sun. But yet in the newspaper or when the weather man, says sun rise, or sun down you say nothing. When we know that the sun does not rise or go down. The same with the Bible it uses certain words to explain certain things. Now the words the foundation can't be moved is correct, let me see you or any other man or any man made power move it. Let me see you move it out of the grasp of it's orbit by the forces that keep it there.

 

[Lewis]

Here are few verses.

PS 104:8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.
PS 104:9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.

JOB 38:8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?


The earth spins just right on it's axes, and the other planets have just enough gravitational pull, to keep it just where it is, on it's foundations. No man can move it out of it's place.

You people kill me when the Bible says things like the foundations of the earth like in this case you take it to fit what you want it to fit.

the Bilble uses language like Going down of the sun. But yet in the newspaper or when the weather man, says sun rise, or sun down you say nothing. When we know that the sun does not rise or go down. The same with the Bible it uses certain words to explain certain things. Now the words the foundation can't be moved is correct, let me see you or any other man or any man made power move it. Let me see you move it out of the grasp of it's orbit by the forces that keep it there.

 

[ThinkerMan]

I'll respond to all three posts (sorry...couldn't resist)

The earth spins just right on it's axes, and the other planets have just enough gravitational pull, to keep it just where it is, on it's foundations. No man can move it out of it's place.

So no one can move it out of place while it is moving?

The earth doesn't just spin on its axis. It wobbles quite a bit. And you referred to the planets keeping it in place, but they have eliptical orbits as well, pulling the earth back and forth in its orbit.

And besides the wobbling axix, the earth moves around the sun in an imperfect eliptical orbit, which moves along the outer arm of the galaxy, which moves towards Andromeda.

What part of fixed are you refering to?

 

[Lewis]

But it is good enough to sustain life, and nobody was talking about a perfect spinning earth, it does good enough to keep you alive with no problems, if God wanted it not to wooble He could do that. Now as far as it sustainig life it spins perfect, as far as it doing what God wanted it to, it is perfect. I'll bet you man could not do such a feat. All these years and this planet or the others have not failed yet. And the Bible says that this earth will not pass away.[/quote]

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

YOu see it works like this.

The bible is ment to be taken 100% literally, except when it is "obviously" not ment to be take 100% literally. How's that for double think.

The earth rests on foundations is not literal, it is subject to interpretation, because we know - thanks to science - that the earth really does move. But wait, christians 1000 years ago did not have the benefit of this knowledge, so back then it was literal - at least in their interpretation. But they were wrong to take a literal view of that particular passage, so now they are all roasting in hell as a result. This is because the bible is the unchaning word of God, written by God himself - using the hand of man (even though the bible doesn't make that claim - but if you don't believe that you are going to go to hell).

The same logic-gymastics can be applied to passages in the bible that refer to the sky as being solid, and having doors through which rain comes.

Now when is comes to passages about talking snakes (and remember its a snake, not satan) and eating fruit from a forbidden tree - that is literal not matter what science says. Christians who claim that genesis is not literal are wrong, and will burn in hell for their mistake.

So in some cases science can say when literal is no longer literal, but in other cases is cannot.

So how do you decide? YOu don't. YOu let others decide for you. God forbid you think for yourself. Thats not what God wants. He gave you a brain but does not want you to use it!

 

[ThinkerMan]

But it is good enough to sustain life, and nobody was talking about a perfect spinning earth,

Fixed, by definition, is "perfect". Since it lacks movement.

If you imply "fixed" as the conditions that sustain life, you are wrong. Ice ages, earthquakes, meteors, floods, hurricanes. There is much "unfixed" that can be terribly devistating to life.

it does good enough to keep you alive with no problems, if God wanted it not to wooble He could do that.

Life is quite difficult to sustain. That's why we and animals die all the time. You can't imply there are "no problems" keeping me alive. Particularly from a historical point of view without the benefits of our modern society. Life is fragile.

As for God's preference for a wobbling or non-wobbling planet with which to carry our his plans, I have no idea. But I do know that science can explain why it wobbles. Why all planets wobble, as a matter of fact.

Now as far as it sustainig life it spins perfect, as far as it doing what God wanted it to, it is perfect.

The anthropic prinicple explains that much better. Of course it is perfect for sustaining life. If it wasn't, then I wouldn't be here typing to you from Earth. I would be typing this to you from a planet that was perfect by virtue of its properties.

What would really provide proof of God's provinence is if he could create and sustain life on a planet inhospitable to life. Mercury, for example. That would show God's ability more that creating life on a planet that is perfect for life.

I'll bet you man could not do such a feat.

Hey, we agree! Did anyone imply that I or others can make planets?

All these years and this planet or the others have not failed yet

Brave statement, but false. If Mars used to sustain life, but now doesn't, it failed. As for knowledge about the trillions of other planets, we have no knowledge, so to make that claim is ridiculous.

As for this planet, it certainly has failed. How about that tsunami last year? Or earthquakes? Or Pompeii? "Earth" has killed more humans than humans have.

And the Bible says that this earth will not pass away

I know that's what you believe, but the evidence offers a different future.

As far as the component energy/matter that currently comprises the earth, I will agree, it will not pass away.

 

[Lewis]

ThinkerMan, you have a lot to learn your thinking is all twisted. We are tought that people like you who already have a made up mind about the Bible to leave you alone, because no matter what we say. You will go against it.
God can deal with people like you, not man

 

[ThinkerMan]

ThinkerMan, you have a lot to learn your thinking is all twisted. We are tought that people like you who already have a made up mind about the Bible to leave you alone, because no matter what we say. You will go against it.
God can deal with people like you, not man

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

One thing I will state, is that within the contexts of this recent discussion, I have made no negative claims about your God (Specifically, the biblical Yahweh/Jesus). Rather, we have only had a debate about definitions and the realities of the natural world around us. In my opinion, you made illogical and incorrect claims. Not because they came from the bible, but because the claims themselves are inconsistent with what we observe around us.

Not once did I say the bible is wrong. Rather, I said what you claimed about the natural world around us is not the most plausable and logical conclusion. From where you gathered these claims is irrelevant.

 

[Lewis]

Mars has never mint to be inhabited, so don't even go there.

 

[Karma2Grace]

Brave statement, but false. If Mars used to sustain life, but now doesn't, it failed. As for knowledge about the trillions of other planets, we have no knowledge, so to make that claim is ridiculous

It is more ridiculous to say that there is no creator or intelligent designer behind the creation!

The anthropic principle explains that much better. Of course it is perfect for sustaining life. If it wasn't, then I wouldn't be here typing to you from Earth. I would be typing this to you from a planet that was perfect by virtue of its properties.

So the Big Bang randomly causes all the galaxies, solor systems and planets to be in perfect position so that it will not collapse!

Can any one of you guys explain the origin of universe? Don’t you believe it just there?