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[_ Old Earth _] THe fossil record

Lewis W said:
Mars has never mint to be inhabited, so don't even go there.

I wrote....

"If Mars used to sustain life, but now doesn't, it failed"

It was a conditional supposition.

Regardless, how do you reach the conclusion that it was never meant to be inhabited? Where in the bible, or otherwise, does it state that life is not meant for any other place in the whole universe?
 
Karma2Grace said:
It is more ridiculous to say that there is no creator or intelligent designer behind the creation!
I find it less ridiculous. Basically, you have people saying "Our universe is so marvelous and perfect for life that it could just exist without cause, therefore a Creator that is more mavelous and pefrect and alive must have existed without cause."

Or is is like saying "Snowflakes are so pretty. They must have been carved by ice faeries. It is ridiculous to suppose otherwise."

So the Big Bang randomly causes all the galaxies, solor systems and planets to be in perfect position so that it will not collapse!

Can any one of you guys explain the origin of universe? Don’t you believe it just there?
They are not in perfect position. They are in the position determined by physics. If physics had been different, they would be different and life may or may not have formed.

It is like rolling a million dice and adding them up. Say you get the sum of 3,045,097. You can say "Wow. I bet the odds of the dice adding up to 3,045,097 exactly must be small. Since it is a small probability and I rolled up something that has a small probability, the dice must have been guided by a magical being." The flaw is that you look at something that has occured and figure out the odds it would occur. In reality the odds are 100% because it happened.

I prefer quantum-type origin theory of the universe in which a universe can exist so long as it obeys the rule that it integrates to nothingness. Gravity is like negative energy while mass is positive. So the net enery of the universe is zero. So the universe is just another way to express "nothingness" and thus is allowed by quantum theory. It also means there could be other universes out there that are unsuitable for life.

Quath
 
Where in the bible, or otherwise, does it state that life is not meant for any other place in the whole universe?

If you read Genesis chapter one, you will see that he made the heavens at the same time he was making earth, pay close attension to verse 1 and 8.
The sun and the moon were not even shining when He started. And the earth is not as old as the foolish scientist say. God put the Moon and Mars and the rest up there for us, it is a balance of His system of things. And let me say this if you have a problem with Genesis 1-31 you will have a problem with the rest of the Bible as well. If you have a problem with Genesis 1:1 nothing the Bible says, or we say will make any sense to you. In your secularized mind.
You guy's uphold things like, the Gap Theory, The Day-Age Theory,Uniformitarianism, and The Nihilistic view, The Tidal Wave view, The Local Flood view, Geologic Columns and so forth. And the Bible said that there would be people like you. I also have my own website to debate people like you, because this crap is to widespread.
 
"No educated person, not even the most ignorant, could suppose that I meant to arrogate to myself the origination of the doctrine that species had not been independently created."
-Charles Darwin, letter to Professor Baden Powell, 1860

==============================================
http://www.amazingdiscoveries.org/ageoftheearth-p2.html

Standard geological publications put current erosion rates at between 6 to 1900 cm per 1000 years. Most of the eroded material is carried away by rivers, and ends up as sediment in the oceans. Even at the lower figure of 6 cm per 1000 years, it would take a mere 10.2 million years for the continents to be eroded down to sea level. (The continents would have eroded down to sea-level 340 times in the time period that they supposedly existed.)
==============================================

http://www.grisda.org/origins/15075.htm

THOSE GAPS IN THE SEDIMENTARY LAYERS
Ariel A. Roth
Geoscience Research Institute
Origins 15(2):75-92 (1988).
=============================================

http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-118.htm

Thursday
May 5, 2005 Institute for Creation Research

DID LANDSCAPES EVOLVE?
- IMPACT No. 118 April 1983
by Steven A. Austin, Ph.D.
==============================================

GEOLOGICAL CHANGES AND TIME
Ariel A. Roth
Geoscience Research Institute
Origins 3(2):106-108 (1976).
http://www.grisda.org/origins/03106.htm
LITERATURE REVIEW
==============================================

Please note that a diversity of species does not necessarily imply that there are billions of individuals of each species, unless you speak of ants or spiders, of course.
 
The gap theory has big problems!

Quick-read this article:
The gap theory is a compromise proposed by Christians who want to keep the Bible but who think evolution has shown it to be wrong. The theory teaches that there was a huge time-gap between the first two verses of Genesis. Christians have largely abandoned the gap theory as more and more evidence mounts that the Bible is scientifically trustworthy.

The gap theory is not as popular among Christians as it used to be. And this is just as well, because it doesn't harmonize well with either the Bible or science. That is why no Christian geologist could accept it, and neither can most theologians.

The gap theory is the idea that between the first two verses of the Bible (Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2) there was a great gap in time. The theory goes roughly like this:
Gap theorists are walking a tightrope

* God created the universe billions of years ago.
* Then the geological ages proposed by evolutionists took place over billions of years of earth's history.
* Life-forms arose during that time that are now preserved in the fossil record, and these fossils allegedly verify that the geological ages took place.
* At the end of the geological ages, Satan rebelled in Heaven and many angels followed him.
* God then cast Satan down to earth, the earth underwent a huge disaster or cataclysm, and it was left without form and void, with darkness on the face of the deep (as described in Genesis 1:2).
* God then re-created the earth in the six literal days of creation described in the first chapter of Genesis.

Attempt to beat evolutionists

Perhaps we should not be too hard on those Christians who revived the gap theory in the late 1800s. This was a time when Charles Darwin's ideas and the theory of evolution were wrongly starting to be promoted as fact. Many Christians were looking for a way to explain how the Bible could be true in the face of what they thought were facts casting doubt on the Bible's trustworthiness.

The Bible, as Irish Archbishop James Ussher had worked out a couple of centuries earlier, at face value indicates that the earth is only thousands, not billions, of years old.

The gap theory seemed to provide an answer. Billions of years could be dumped in a “gap†that was thought may exist between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. The idea gained support from Thomas Chalmers, George H. Pember, and later from C. I. Scofield, whose generally superb Scofield Reference Bible became sadly tarnished when its notes included support for this flawed theory.
Problems with the gap theory

The modern creationist movement, particularly in such scholarly groups as the Institute for Creation Research, Answers in Genesis, the Creation Science Movement (formerly the Evolution Protest Movement), and many others, have shown not only that the gap theory is unnecessary (because the Bible's young-earth position is supported without compromise by thousands of highly qualified scientists), but that it is simply wrong.

Here are just a few of the problems with the gap theory:

* The idea that the geological ages took place between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 is plainly refuted in God's Ten Commandments, in which God said, “In six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is†(Exodus 20:11). God was telling people that the pattern He set at creation, of six days work followed by a day of rest, was to be the pattern for mankind's working week.
Note that this verse in Exodus covers both Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. In six days God made “heaven and earth†(Genesis 1:1), and “the sea, and all that in them is†(Genesis 1:2 onward). There is no room for a gap, because this statement in Exodus covers both Genesis 1:1 and the verses after it … all in the six days!
* The Bible says there was no sin or death until humans caused them to come into the world. But the gap theory would have billions of years of suffering and death, represented by the fossils and rock layers in the earth's crust, which are supposed to identify the geological ages.
The gap theory proposes that at the end of the geological ages Satan sinned, was cast down to earth, and there was a great cataclysm. So the geological ages with countless deaths recorded in them would have occurred before either Satan or humans sinned, which is the opposite of what the Bible says.
* The whole concept of the geological ages is based on the evolutionary assumption that things have continued the same in the past as in the present. Therefore there is no room in the geological ages system for the cataclysm interrupting the processes that gap theorists need. This is why no geologist would accept the gap theory.

The gap theory is an unfortunate compromise position taken by those who either don't understand the implications of the theory or don't love Scripture enough to take the Bible on what it clearly says. The gap theory is unscientific, unscriptural, and absolutely unnecessary.
 
The Literal Week of Creation (#113)
by Henry Morris, Ph.D.
Abstract
". . . for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed" (Exodus 31:17).

There are many Christians today who insist that they believe the Bible, but seem unable to believe its very first chapter. The Biblical record says that God created the universe and everything in it in six days, then rested on the seventh day (note Exodus 20:8-11). But the modern worldview is that the universe has been evolving for about 15 billion years, and that the earth and its inhabitants have been evolving almost five billion years, and this creates a problem.

They must decide, therefore, whether they should interpret the scientific data in terms of God's revelation, or try to interpret the Genesis record of creation to fit the evolutionary ages. Most Christian intellectuals take the latter approach and then attack those whom they call "young-earth creationists." An example of this is found in the writings of Bradley and Olsen:

The Hebrew word yom and its plural form yamim are used over 1900 times in the Old Testament. . . . Outside of the Genesis 1 case in question, the two-hundred plus occurrences of yom preceded by ordinals all refer to a normal twenty-four hour day. Furthermore, the seven-hundred plus appearances of yamim always refer to a regular day. Thus, it is argued that the Exodus 20:11 reference to the six yamim of creation must also refer to six regular days.1

Bradley and Olsen think that such exegesis doesn't apply to the creation week. Here is their reasoning.

These arguments have a common fallacy, however. There is no other place in the Old Testament where the intent is to describe events that involve multiple and/or sequential indefinite periods of time.

There is, of course, no hint in either Genesis 1 or Exodus 20:8-11 that the writer's intent was to "describe events that involve . . . indefinite periods of time." The accounts are written as simple statements of fact, using straightforward language that everywhere else in the Bible denotes literal days. Another writer, Dr. Pun, agrees.

It is apparent that the most straightforward understanding of the Genesis record . . . is that God created heaven and earth in six solar days, that man was created on the sixth day, that death and chaos entered the world after the Fall of Adam and Eve. . . .2

But Dr. Pun apparently does not believe that God understood what He was saying, since He said it

. . . without regard to all the hermeneutical considerations suggested by science.

That is, he thinks that "science" should govern our Biblical hermeneutics. Dr. Pun goes on to say that:

. . . the recent Creationist position . . . has denied and belittled the vast amount of scientific evidence amassed to support the theory of natural selection and the antiquity of the earth.

All three of these men are leading evangelical scientists (Pun at Wheaton College, Bradley at Texas A & M, Olsen from Colorado School of Mines) and all say they believe in Biblical inerrancy and the historicity of Genesis. Their "day-age theory," however, seems to us to be quite illogical. If Genesis doesn't mean what it says, then why accept its historicity at all?

Liberal theologians don't accept it, as a matter of fact. One leading Hebrew scholar is James Barr, Professor of Hebrew Bible at Vanderbilt University and former Regius Professor of Hebrew at Oxford University in England. Although he does not believe in the historicity of Genesis 1, Dr. Barr does agree that the writer's intent was to narrate the actual history of primeval creation. Others also agree with him.

Probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Genesis 1-11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that (a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience; . . . Or, to put it negatively, the apologetic arguments which suppose the "days" of creation to be long eras of time, the figures of years not to be chronological, and the flood to be a merely local Mesopotamian flood, are not taken seriously by any such professors, as far as I know.3

While men such as Bradley, Olsen, and Pun may have worthy motives in trying to retain creationism in the face of the supposed evidence for macro evolution and an ancient earth, it seems obvious that Barr's position is more realistic. If God did not mean what He said in the very first chapter of His book, then why should we take the rest of it seriously?

It seems to us that we should take Scripture as the literal Word of God, intended to be understood by its readers in every generation and every nationâ€â€especially this chapter, which is the foundation of all the rest. If God had meant to convey the idea of long ages, He could easily have used a number of other Hebrew words and phrases to convey that idea. All the ancients were already familiar with the concept of long ages of evolutionary change in their various nature religions.

The idea of six-literal-day creation, however, was a radical departure from what the early Hebrews could have heard from their pagan neighbors; so God was very specific in using such words to preclude any such misunderstanding. For example, He defined the word "day" the very first time He used it. "God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day" (Genesis 1:5). The word "day" in Genesis does not mean a geological period!

Furthermore, the order of events in Genesis flagrantly contradicts the order assigned by evolutionary astronomers and geologists in well over a dozen ways.4

Although there are many, many references to creation throughout the Bible, there is no hint anywhere of long ages before man's creation. The fact that men and women and various human activities were present from the very foundation of the world is indicated in the New Testament by Peter (Acts 3:21), by Paul (Romans 1:20), by John (I John 3:8), by the father of John the Baptist (Luke 1:69,70), and especially by the Creator, the Lord Jesus Christ Himself (Luke 11:50; Mark 10:6; 13:19).

Perhaps most important of all is the fact that acceptance of the geological ages (with their billions of fossil remains in the sedimentary rocks) makes God out to be the Creator of evil and suffering, directly allowing a billion years of cruel struggle for existence before He created Adam and Eve.

Nature makes everything in vain. After all, what is evolution? A mindless process built on evil; that's what it is. . . . So natural selection seems smart to those who see only the surviving products, but as a design process it is idiotic. And the raw brutality of the process is offensive.5

It seems clear to us that those who truly believe the Bible ought to repudiate this hoary day/age theory once and for all. However, this means repudiating the evolutionary age system, and to many Christian intellectuals, this costs too much. So most of them go on promoting this system of great ages (despite the lack of any genuine scientific proof of any ages before the beginning of recorded history). For example, the president of a leading evangelical college has noted that:

For at least six decades, Wheaton's faculty . . . have held that the "days" of Genesis are most likely to have been extended periods of time. Further, they have also noted that the Bible does not comment on the exact origin of species as described today.6

Most Christian colleges and seminaries today, as well as most Christian student organizations, Christian family ministries, and even some Christian apologetics and creation-oriented organizations would agree with that position. We could become more popular here at ICR, and we would have bigger meetings, more book sales, and more open doors if we would go and do likewise.

But, this we cannot do and still remain faithful to the Word of God. We hope you understand. We believe God does.
References

1 Walter L. Bradley and Roger Olsen, "The Trustworthiness of Scripture in Areas Relating to Natural Science," in Hermeneutics, Inerrancy and the Bible, ed. Earl D. Radmacher and Robert D. Preuss (Grand Rapids: Zondervan Publishing House, 1984), p. 299.
2 Pattle P.T. Pun, "A Theory of Progressive Creationism," Journal of the American Scientific Affiliation (vol. 39, March 1987), p. 14.
3 James Barr, letter to David Watson, 1984.
4 The contradictions have been pointed out in many books. See, for example, the brief tabulation in The Young Earth by John D. Morris (Green Forest, Ark: Master Books, 1994), p. 33.
5 Arthur Falk, "Reflections on Huxley's Evolution and Ethics," The Humanist (vol. 55, November/December 1955), pp. 23-24.
6 Richard Chase, "Teaching Science," Wheaton Alumni (April/May 1990), p. 4
 
Can any one of you guys explain the origin of universe? Don’t you believe it just there?

can any of you guys explain teh origin of god?
 
ThinkerMan said:
Lewis W said:
ThinkerMan, you have a lot to learn your thinking is all twisted. We are tought that people like you who already have a made up mind about the Bible to leave you alone, because no matter what we say. You will go against it.
God can deal with people like you, not man

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

One thing I will state, is that within the contexts of this recent discussion, I have made no negative claims about your God (Specifically, the biblical Yahweh/Jesus). Rather, we have only had a debate about definitions and the realities of the natural world around us. In my opinion, you made illogical and incorrect claims. Not because they came from the bible, but because the claims themselves are inconsistent with what we observe around us.

Not once did I say the bible is wrong. Rather, I said what you claimed about the natural world around us is not the most plausable and logical conclusion. From where you gathered these claims is irrelevant.

What's inconsistent about what we observe around us is that apes breed creatures other than apes. All you have to do is go to a zoo to see what apes breed and any hosptial to see what humans breed. Then you will know the truth about how each species is propagated. :)
 
wrbones said:
Standard geological publications put current erosion rates at between 6 to 1900 cm per 1000 years. Most of the eroded material is carried away by rivers, and ends up as sediment in the oceans. Even at the lower figure of 6 cm per 1000 years, it would take a mere 10.2 million years for the continents to be eroded down to sea level. (The continents would have eroded down to sea-level 340 times in the time period that they supposedly existed.)
This is a really bad argument. A child grey 6 inches in a year. Therefore, by age 80, they should be almost 40 feet tall.

Most natural processes are not linear.

Heidi said:
What's inconsistent about what we observe around us is that apes breed creatures other than apes. All you have to do is go to a zoo to see what apes breed and any hosptial to see what humans breed. Then you will know the truth about how each species is propagated.
The baby of an ape is similar to the parents, but is not identical, right? Imagine if there were "perfect apes." What we would consider to have the best DNA to be called an ape. Their child would not be a perfect ape because of mutation, and chromosone selection. Thus the child has changed from its parents.

It is similar to copying a document in a photocopier. It looks the same. Take this copy and copy it. And take that copy and copy it. At what point do you feel the copy is no longer like the original? That is similar (way too simple) to how species change over time.

Quath

Quath
 
God was always here, He has no beginning and He has no ending. But our finite minds cannot comprehend this. As far as the Universe is concerned God took nothing or the Hebrew word-bara- which means to make something out of nothing. And He did just that, He created the universe out of nothing.
But in our lower state we cannot put this together.

PS 139:6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.

And you will blow a fuse trying, instead of taking God at His, Holy Word, man tries to figure out the things God does not want us to figure out, so man comes up with crap and I, mean crap, like the Big Bang Theory, mostly everytime I hear about the Big Bang I laugh it's silly to say the least. And to think that God can't do a Bara is to down play His power.
 
God was always here, He has no beginning and He has no ending. But our finite minds cannot comprehend this.

This is easy to assert, but impossible to back up. Other than arguable passages from a questionable book there is no way to show "God was always here."

And you will blow a fuse trying, instead of taking God at His, Holy Word, man tries to figure out the things God does not want us to figure out, so man comes up with crap and I, mean crap, like the Big Bang Theory, mostly everytime I hear about the Big Bang I laugh it's silly to say the least.

You can believe in a fascist God all you want, but that doesn’t mean the Big Bang Theory and all the evidence that supports it is crap or silly.
 
Lewis W said:
Fossils can only be created by rapid burial. They are also at lost to explain, why fish fossils are found at the tops of the worlds highest peaks or mountains, the dummys, will not even concede to evidence, because they are fools. They just will not give God' His place or believe in such a thing as devine intervention, like the WORLD WIDE FLOOD. But if they don't repent and give God his place, they will receive eternal damnation, and they have nobody to blame but themselves.

I said this on another board: If there really was a worldwide flood, wouldn't you expect to find fossils of mountain goats or something at the top of mountains, instead of fish?
 
Lewis W said:
Psalms 104, is key you see God pushed up the earth and lowered it in certain places so that the water would run off, or recede. It was Divine Intervention concerning the receding of the World Wide Flood waters. The earth was not as mountainous as it is today, back then. God made changes during this time.

Which would have caused massive earthquakes on a scale we could hardly even begin to imagine, and release enough energy to boil the oceans and kill all life on the planet.

Sorry, try again.
 
Heidi said:
ThinkerMan said:
Lewis W said:
ThinkerMan, you have a lot to learn your thinking is all twisted. We are tought that people like you who already have a made up mind about the Bible to leave you alone, because no matter what we say. You will go against it.
God can deal with people like you, not man

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

One thing I will state, is that within the contexts of this recent discussion, I have made no negative claims about your God (Specifically, the biblical Yahweh/Jesus). Rather, we have only had a debate about definitions and the realities of the natural world around us. In my opinion, you made illogical and incorrect claims. Not because they came from the bible, but because the claims themselves are inconsistent with what we observe around us.

Not once did I say the bible is wrong. Rather, I said what you claimed about the natural world around us is not the most plausable and logical conclusion. From where you gathered these claims is irrelevant.

What's inconsistent about what we observe around us is that apes breed creatures other than apes. All you have to do is go to a zoo to see what apes breed and any hosptial to see what humans breed. Then you will know the truth about how each species is propagated. :)

Evolution occurs over millions of years.

Are you millions of years old?
 
wrbones said:
"No educated person, not even the most ignorant, could suppose that I meant to arrogate to myself the origination of the doctrine that species had not been independently created."
-Charles Darwin, letter to Professor Baden Powell, 1860

==============================================
http://www.amazingdiscoveries.org/ageoftheearth-p2.html

Standard geological publications put current erosion rates at between 6 to 1900 cm per 1000 years. Most of the eroded material is carried away by rivers, and ends up as sediment in the oceans. Even at the lower figure of 6 cm per 1000 years, it would take a mere 10.2 million years for the continents to be eroded down to sea level. (The continents would have eroded down to sea-level 340 times in the time period that they supposedly existed.)
==============================================

Sure, that makes perfect sense, except for that whole 'geological subduction' thing, but of course that's just another Lie Of Satan(tm) being propagated by TEH EVIL SCIENTISTS!!!!!1 :roll:
 
Lewis W said:
God was always here, He has no beginning and He has no ending. But our finite minds cannot comprehend this. As far as the Universe is concerned God took nothing or the Hebrew word-bara- which means to make something out of nothing. And He did just that, He created the universe out of nothing.
But in our lower state we cannot put this together.

PS 139:6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.

And you will blow a fuse trying, instead of taking God at His, Holy Word, man tries to figure out the things God does not want us to figure out, so man comes up with crap and I, mean crap, like the Big Bang Theory, mostly everytime I hear about the Big Bang I laugh it's silly to say the least. And to think that God can't do a Bara is to down play His power.

So, in other words, you have no friggin' clue. :P
 
Jimbob wrote:
I said this on another board: If there really was a worldwide flood, wouldn't you expect to find fossils of mountain goats or something at the top of mountains, instead of fish?

Why? Is this the logic that evolutionists use to form their theories? Not too impressive.

Mountain goats would be one of the last animals drowned. Water levels would be mountain high and once dead, those types of animals would float and tend to be deposited on top on the debris, not deep down under where fossils would most likely form. What you would find on the bottom where fossilization would probably occur would be creatures that inhabited bodies of water, swamps and the low lying areas around them. Which is, guess what, exactly what we find in the fossil layers.

Jimbob wrote:
Which would have caused massive earthquakes on a scale we could hardly even begin to imagine, and release enough energy to boil the oceans and kill all life on the planet.

Sorry, try again.

Unless a super intelligent supreme being had the smarts to turn the planet a notch to cause freezing temperatures to counteract the released heat. The evidence supports such an event as well. Nice try, btw.
 
unred typo said:
Jimbob wrote:
I said this on another board: If there really was a worldwide flood, wouldn't you expect to find fossils of mountain goats or something at the top of mountains, instead of fish?

Why? Is this the logic that evolutionists use to form their theories? Not too impressive.

Mountain goats would be one of the last animals drowned. Water levels would be mountain high and once dead, those types of animals would float and tend to be deposited on top on the debris, not deep down under where fossils would most likely form. What you would find on the bottom where fossilization would probably occur would be creatures that inhabited bodies of water, swamps and the low lying areas around them. Which is, guess what, exactly what we find in the fossil layers.

Jimbob wrote:[quote:afbdc] Which would have caused massive earthquakes on a scale we could hardly even begin to imagine, and release enough energy to boil the oceans and kill all life on the planet.

Sorry, try again.

Unless a super intelligent supreme being had the smarts to turn the planet a notch to cause freezing temperatures to counteract the released heat. The evidence supports such an event as well. Nice try, btw.[/quote:afbdc]

1. First of all, there's no such thing as an 'evolutionist'. There are only geologists, biologists, cosmologists, and scientists in all other branches of science. There is no special branch of science dedicated to study evolution. I'm not a scientist myself, I don't have a degree on this stuff, however, this does not mean I don't know what I'm talking about. You conveniantly fail to explain why the fossils of goats, etc. would be deposited in lower sediment and fish wouldn't. Unless, of course, those mountains were once underwater and were pushed up by plate tectonics. Dating those fossils does reveal them to be quite a bit older than 6000 years.

2. Sure, and where does it say this in the Bible?
 
Jimbob wrote:
1. First of all, there's no such thing as an 'evolutionist'. There are only geologists, biologists, cosmologists, and scientists in all other branches of science. There is no special branch of science dedicated to study evolution. I'm not a scientist myself, I don't have a degree on this stuff, however, this does not mean I don't know what I'm talking about. You conveniantly fail to explain why the fossils of goats, etc. would be deposited in lower sediment and fish wouldn't. Unless, of course, those mountains were once underwater and were pushed up by plate tectonics. Dating those fossils does reveal them to be quite a bit older than 6000 years.
2. Sure, and where does it say this in the Bible?

First, I wouldn’t want to be called an evolutionist either. No problem, no offence intended. Insert whatever label you feel comfortable with. I use ‘evolutionist’ to include all believers in the theory of evolution. If that doesn’t suit you, whatever.

You know, I don’t even remember ever reading about the fossil of a goat, deposited in any layer. If you will elaborate on where the goat(s) were found, I will try to explain it in correlation with the Genesis account.

Dating those fossils is supposed to eliminate all YECs but as you know, we are a skeptical lot. You trust those dates and we don’t. When there are several causes of anomalies known and no telling how many unknowns and no way to prove the amount of ‘daughter’ isotopes originally in the samples, I believe logic is on our side. One day there will come the eventual ‘oops, we didn’t allow for _____’ but some of us won’t be shocked and our theories won’t need a total overhaul.

2. Say what? All I care is that my theories don’t conflict with scripture and I figure I won’t be too far from the truth. Certainly a lot closer than a few billion light years away.
 
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