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The God Delusion

2ndRateMind

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So, the well known atheist, Richard Dawkins, published this book a few years ago, and I consider it required reading for every believer. Unless we know the arguments put to us by the other side, we cannot hope to counter them. If you've read his book, what do you make of it?

Best wishes 2RM.
 

2ndRateMind

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Why would be waste out time reading a book written by an atheist who claims God is just a delusion. I recommend reading that which God has already given the prophets and Apostles to write.
As I said, unless we know the arguments put forth by the other side, we cannot hope to counter them. Consider it a philosophical, rather than a theological, duty. And I have to say, some of his criticisms are valid, and have informed my own faith.

Best wishes, 2RM.
 

for_his_glory

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As I said, unless we know the arguments put forth by the other side, we cannot hope to counter them. Consider it a philosophical, rather than a theological, duty. And I have to say, some of his criticisms are valid, and have informed my own faith.

Best wishes, 2RM
I would think everyone who is a Christian already knows that a true atheist does not believe in God or creation. I do not counter the beliefs of others, but show them with the word of God what we as a child of God believe in. Why would we want to pay money to line the pockets of an atheist. If anyone wants to know about atheist they can google this.

Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.


1Tim 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Tim 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing
, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Tim 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
 

2ndRateMind

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Hmmm. I think, if you want to convert someone to your own way of belief, you have to start from where they are, not where you are.

Best wishes, 2RM.
 

2ndRateMind

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Incidentally, I am not so affeared of philosophy as the authors of the Bible seem to be. Philosophy is grounded on logical argument, and who but God could have created logic?

Best wishes, 2RM.
 

wondering

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Incidentally, I am not so affeared of philosophy as the authors of the Bible seem to be. Philosophy is grounded on logical argument, and who but God could have created logic?

Best wishes, 2RM.
I'm sure you know Wm. Lane Craig.
He has a PhD in Philosophy and also Theology.
Catholic priests are required to take 2 years of philosophy now. It used to be 1. At least here in Italy.
I say this because knowing some philosophy (which I don't BTW) is not a bad idea, if a person can handle it.

I read Dawkin's book exactly for the reason you've stated.
Frankly, I can't remember much of it.
I remember that at the time (maybe 5 years ago) I didn't think too much of it.
I tend to think that atheists have more or less the same reasons for not believing in God.
The reason is science.

This is why I like John Lennox...he's a scientist and doesn't think there's any conflict between faith and science...it's just that scientists that do not believe would like to think there is.

I watched a good debate between Lennox and Dawkins.
I'll link it if I can find it.

William Lane Craig is also excellent for giving reasons why we could state that God exists.
Atheists don't care about what the bible says...they call it circular reasoning and just pay no attention.
It would be nice to remember some of the stuff these guys teach, unfortunately our brain cells start to die off at the age of 25 and I'm way beyond that!! :)

If you want to discuss this further, just state something of what Dawkins said.
I still have the book.
Some members might be interested in this.
The N.T. states that we should give a reason for why we believe...
OUR reasons are different than those that atheists would imagine.
Here...



 

jasonc

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Why would be waste out time reading a book written by an atheist who claims God is just a delusion. I recommend reading that which God has already given the prophets and Apostles to write.
Because you need to know what they say .and why.

I was a jw ,my dad raised in the temple .
If I want to visit Israel and reach my distant family .I shouldn't know Judaism and why I might need to wear at kippah?

Paul quoted Socrates and other Greek philosophies in the book of acts
 

2ndRateMind

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Another book well worth the reading is Carl Sagan's 'The Demon Haunted World.' He is less strident than Dawkins, but nevertheless paints a telling picture of what happens when religion is allowed to run havoc, unconstrained by lesser concerns.

Best wishes, 2RM.
 
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for_his_glory

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Because you need to know what they say .and why.

I was a jw ,my dad raised in the temple .
If I want to visit Israel and reach my distant family .I shouldn't know Judaism and why I might need to wear at kippah?

Paul quoted Socrates and other Greek philosophies in the book of acts
I know we need to know why they, and others, believe as they do, but my point is, why do we have to line their pockets by buying their books when we can google for free.

Why is 2ndRateMind promoting their books by telling us to buy them?
 

jasonc

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I know we need to know why they, and others, believe as they do, but my point is, why do we have to line their pockets by buying their books when we can google for free.

Why is 2ndRateMind promoting their books by telling us to buy them?
You always can't it for free.
 

2ndRateMind

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Sorry. I did not mean to promote their books, just recommend some reading I have enjoyed. I can state for the record that I have no commercial interest in these books whatsoever. You are quite welcome to recommend any books on the topic you have come across.

Best wishes, 2RM.
 

hawkman

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So, the well known atheist, Richard Dawkins, published this book a few years ago, and I consider it required reading for every believer. Unless we know the arguments put to us by the other side, we cannot hope to counter them. If you've read his book, what do you make of it?

Best wishes 2RM.
So if I read the Dawkins book and now I am well equipped in my intellect to enter the arena and spar with the atheist , we are now on an equal footing .

But whoa ! Is this how I need to show an atheist the love of Christ ? I seriously doubt it .

Guess who knows ALL the arguments that will be put to us by the other side ? The Father , The Son , and The Holy Spirit .
Before my talk with the atheist I would say a prayer something like this , " Dear Lord please give me the words to say in this encounter and let Your will be done ." Maybe all we are to do is plant a seed in the mind of the atheist and we are not there to be a victor in a war of words . But we will have the supernatural power of God working to further the work of God's kingdom . It is my desire to have God use me as He sees fit to .

Matthew 19:
19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

I so understand why there has been a cry to remove the words of Paul from the Bible . What a great victory for satan that would be . Read what Paul wrote here in this passage .
1 Corinthians 1
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
 

for_his_glory

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Sorry. I did not mean to promote their books, just recommend some reading I have enjoyed. I can state for the record that I have no commercial interest in these books whatsoever. You are quite welcome to recommend any books on the topic you have come across.

Best wishes, 2RM.
Thank you for clarifying this.
 

for_his_glory

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2Tim 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Tim 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Tim 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2Tim 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

We do have a few atheist that come and go and it does help to have foreknowledge of what and how they believe as these are the areas that we need to be ready to discuss with them with scripture. We discuss the indifferences like we should be doing as mature adults and the same with other Christians that we disagree with. We do not condemn or judge others as that is God's place to do so in His righteous judgement. Do the work of an evangelist with longsuffering and patience as all we can do is plant seeds as only God brings in the harvest.
 

The Light

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I see why the OP feel that exposing oneself to the perspectives of nonbelievers can be beneficial to not only winning them over but also strengthening and from time to time tweaking one's own faith to better align with truth. I follow Dr. Sean McDowell who I think tries to exemplify this practice.

 

2ndRateMind

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Someone famous (I forget who) said that 'To understand all, is to forgive all'.

Best wishes, 2RM.
 
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