The gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of grace, is there a difference

[Papa Zoom]

hello Papa Zoom, dirtfarmer here

Scripture says that it wasn't real .

I understand it this way too. I used to think saying so was just an excuse because we had to account for people who walked away from their faith. But it seems to me that if one possesses real faith, such is from God. We are sealed by the HS and are God's possession. So how then could we then be lost? The only answer I've come up with is that we can't. A true believer will run the distance because that's by the power of God.

Recently I watched my brother pass from this world. My first thought was that, as a believer, he went from death to Life. His physical body withered away but his spirit stayed strong to the end. He was always a strong believer, though never perfect in his life's decisions. When cancer came, his faith increased. By that I simply mean that facing one's death, even though it was years away, his focus was on what was important and true. His faith. He held on to the promises of God even more. Through all the nastiness of cancer, he looked to God. Even praised him through his suffering. I can't imagine how this can come from our own strength. Only the power of God can equip us so.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I think I'm beginning to see why Hank Hanagraff went Orthodox Church.
I'm serious.

 

[Papa Zoom]

I think I'm beginning to see why Hank Hanagraff went Orthodox Church.
I'm serious.

He's on this forum?

 

[dirtfarmer]

He's on this forum?

hello Papa Zoom, dirtfarmer here

Hank Hanegraaff was or maybe still is, "the bible answer man"

 

[Nathan]

I think I'm beginning to see why Hank Hanagraff went Orthodox Church.
I'm serious.

Ok, I'll bite. Explain please.

 

[Papa Zoom]

hello Papa Zoom, dirtfarmer here

Hank Hanegraaff was or maybe still is, "the bible answer man"

I used to listen to him a lot a while back. That was way before podcasts. Now I have tons of podcasts I listen to when I work in the yard or go walking. I always enjoyed Hanegraaff and read a couple of his books.

 

[Nathan]

hello Papa Zoom, dirtfarmer here

Scripture says that it wasn't real .

Do you believe someone can leave the faith?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Ok, I'll bite. Explain please.

Because he can see how far the Protestant Church has degraded into heresy and is quite sick and tired of trying to talk to a church about Biblical truth that is thoroughly deafened by and locked into it's various sectarian, non-Biblical indoctrinations.

I'm thinking this because for me the most frustrating thing I encounter in the church are people's blind, dogmatic indoctrinations. Frankly, I'm sick of it enough to leave the Protestant Church myself. This latest round of OSAS discussion in the threads I've been participating in made me realize this could be why a Hank Hanagraff would go Eastern Orthodox. Perhaps he's sick of the grip that various indoctrinations and beliefs have on so many people in the Protestant Church, and the lack of a central anointed leadership to sort it out. A grip that he now realizes all the teaching and explaining he's done won't loosen.

 

[Nathan]

Because he can see how far the Protestant Church has degraded into heresy and is quite sick and tired of trying to talk to a church about Biblical truth that is thoroughly deafened by and locked into it's various sectarian, non-Biblical indoctrinations.

I'm thinking this because for me the most frustrating thing I encounter in the church are people's blind, dogmatic indoctrinations. Frankly, I'm sick of it enough to leave the Protestant Church myself. This latest round of OSAS discussion in the threads I've been participating in made me realize this could be why a Hank Hanagraff would go Eastern Orthodox. Perhaps he's sick of the grip that various indoctrinations and beliefs have on so many people in the Protestant Church, and the lack of a central anointed leadership to sort it out. A grip that he now realizes all the teaching and explaining he's done won't loosen.

I don't think that's far from the truth. I do think he wanted to align himself with a belief that was closest to his.

Its hard to hold a faith and feel alone.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Because he can see how far the Protestant Church has degraded into heresy and is quite sick and tired of trying to talk to a church about Biblical truth that is thoroughly deafened by and locked into it's various sectarian, non-Biblical indoctrinations.

I'm thinking this because for me the most frustrating thing I encounter in the church are people's blind, dogmatic indoctrinations. Frankly, I'm sick of it enough to leave the Protestant Church myself. This latest round of OSAS discussion in the threads I've been participating in made me realize this could be why a Hank Hanagraff would go Eastern Orthodox. Perhaps he's sick of the grip that various indoctrinations and beliefs have on so many people in the Protestant Church, and the lack of a central anointed leadership to sort it out. A grip that he now realizes all the teaching and explaining he's done won't loosen.

hello Jethro Bodine, dirtfarmer here

Would you mind explaining " lack of central anointed leadership to sort it out"?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

hello Jethro Bodine, dirtfarmer here

Would you mind explaining " lack of central anointed leadership to sort it out"?

The Protestant Church does not have a Paul, a James, and a Peter to tell the church what the real truth is. We have to figure it out on our own between us and God. We have the Bible to do that, and the Holy Spirit, but the Bible writers speak very clearly of the necessity of teachers in a system of leadership. God did not set up what we Protestants have.

 

[civilwarbuff]

The Protestant Church does not have a Paul, a James, and a Peter to tell the church what the real truth is. We have to figure it out on our own between us and God. We have the Bible to do that, and the Holy Spirit, but the Bible writers speak very clearly of the necessity of teachers in a system of leadership. God did not set up what we Protestants have.

That's right Jethro; here is how he really wants us to worship Him....I mean after all it is the one true church, right?

Try standing up in the middle of liturgy and start speaking in tongues.....see where that gets you.
Oh, and prepare to dig deep into your wallet to pay for all those beautiful churches that you have been recently so critical of....
Yep, we should all worship like this.......

 

[chessman]

The Protestant Church does not have a Paul, a James, and a Peter to tell the church what the real truth is.

We have Paul's and James' and Peter's inspired Words to tell us the Truth:

Romans 1:25 (NASB) For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.​

The truth is, there is only One who is able to save your soul (The Word, implanted):

James 1:21 (NASB) Therefore, putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls.​

The truth is, we (who have been established in the Truth) have the ability to at any time to call upon Truth.

2 Peter 1:12-15 (NASB) Therefore, I will always be ready to remind you of these things, even though you already know them, and have been established in the truth which is present with you. I consider it right, as long as I am in this earthly dwelling, to stir you up by way of reminder, knowing that the laying aside of my earthly dwelling is imminent, as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. And I will also be diligent that at any time after my departure you will be able to call these things to mind.​

the Bible writers speak very clearly of the necessity of teachers in a system of leadership.

See Peter's truth above⬆

Greek Orthodox Church teaches that their Ecumenical Councils are equal in divinity to the Holy Scriptures:

"...the oral tradition of the early Church, and the decisions of the Ecumenical Councils. All of this collective wisdom and experience through the centuries are combined to form this second great source of sacred authority."

As is their weekly "Divine Liturgy", unm "divine".

https://www.goarch.org/-/introduction-what-is-the-greek-orthodox-church-?inheritRedirect=true

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

dirtfarmer here

There is division between believers, most say that the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of the grace of God are one in the same. What do you believe concerning this, is the gospel of the kingdom different from the gospel of the grace of God?

I think there's a consistent message throughout the bible, and it's there in the gospel too. Repent and turn to God, and He will save you and heal you.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I think there's a consistent message throughout the bible, and it's there in the gospel too. Repent and turn to God, and He will save you and heal you.

Agreed!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That's right Jethro; here is how he really wants us to worship Him....I mean after all it is the one true church, right?

Try standing up in the middle of liturgy and start speaking in tongues.....see where that gets you.
Oh, and prepare to dig deep into your wallet to pay for all those beautiful churches that you have been recently so critical of....
Yep, we should all worship like this.......

And once again, my point about the Protestant Church gets confirmed.
Thank you.

 

[civilwarbuff]

And once again, my point about the Protestant Church gets confirmed.
Thank you.

You realize it is the Orthodox Church pictured here, right?

 

[Papa Zoom]

BTW. He has risen!

 

[dirtfarmer]

I think there's a consistent message throughout the bible, and it's there in the gospel too. Repent and turn to God, and He will save you and heal you.

hello Not_Now.Soon, dirtfarmer here

Was Noah told to repent and turn to God. What about Moses or Enoch. It is only the gospel of the kingdom that they were told to repent and turn to God. Even in the gospel of the grace we are told to believe and you will be saved.

 

[reba]

Noah found Grace in the eyes of the Lord