The identity of the antichrist in 5 verses

[turnorburn]

What happened to.. The identity of the antichrist in 5 verses?

tob

Sorry Sinthesis didn't see you there

 

[turnorburn]

i was taught that the number 6 represented man 3 6's represented mans attempt to be God..

tob

 

[turnorburn]

In Rome they referred to their leaders and the Caesars as gods for example in..

Acts 12:21 And upon a set day Herod, arrayed in royal apparel, sat upon his throne, and made an oration unto them.

22 And the people gave a shout, saying, It is the voice of a god, and not of a man.

23 And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.

24 But the word of God grew and multiplied.

That practice has never changed its been carried over into our present day..

tob

 

[gracenote]

i was taught that the number 6 represented man 3 6's represented mans attempt to be God..

tob

Would you care to extrapolate on this?
Fascinating!
(wish we had a Like button--just sayin')

 

[turnorburn]

What the devil couldn't accomplish in heaven he attempted to do on earth..

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

As its written man was created on the 6th day, the devil caused Adam and Eve to fall as he had done with 1/3 of Gods angels, in his pursuit to be like the most high he used man as a means to his ends..

That's what i was taught..then i started to look for someone that would fit this model, the Antichrist, a man possessed by Satan calling himself God. From there i began to see i wasn't the only one to realize who that man was..

tob

 

[gracenote]

What the devil couldn't accomplish in heaven he attempted to do on earth..

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

As its written man was created on the 6th day, the devil caused Adam and Eve to fall as he had done with 1/3 of Gods angels, in his pursuit to be like the most high he used man as a means to his ends..

That's what i was taught..then i started to look for someone that would fit this model, the Antichrist, a man possessed by Satan calling himself God. From there i began to see i wasn't the only one to realize who that man was..

tob

There could likewise be servants of "that man" whom we might likewise deem to be the AC. Do you see that idea as correct as well?

 

[turnorburn]

Scripture teaches us there are many Antichrists but as with any body there is a head..

tob

 

[gracenote]

Scripture teaches us there are many Antichrists but as with any body there is a head..

tob

I tend to look into root or base causes. After all, the superficial or surface things we see more easily may well belie or perhaps betray something deeper.
Thank you so much for posting y9our comments on this subject the way you have today.
I appreciate the time and effort very much.
God's Peace to you

 

[turnorburn]

Do a study tonight of Revelation 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Specifically the word Antipas and see what you find

tob

*edit: Gods peace to you as well.

 

[gracenote]

Do a study tonight of Revelation 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Specifically the word Antipas and see what you find

tob

*edit: Gods peace to you as well.

Tonight???
I couldn't wait that long!
LOL
So here is one reference I've found. I knew it was a Greek word, and I recalled Herod Antipas, but here is that link
http://biblehub.com/greek/493.htm
Still not sure what you're driving at, although it's interesting, to say the least.

 

[john darling]

We buy & sell as an acceptable alternative to take & give.

"buying and selling is an acceptable alternative to give and take". What is actually being communicated here? Why is buying/selling an acceptable alternative to give and take? Perhaps he's using the word "take" in a negative way, like people taking advantage of one another, but even if that's the case, that's not really an alternative to buying and selling since the whole concept of money rests on the concept of forcing payment for our help.

But why should "give" be the alternative instead of the preferred choice? Why should "give" be the choice for which an alternative is needed? What's the problem with giving?

Is this idea of "giving" as the alternative to "forcing" (i.e. payment) consistent with what Jesus taught? Is it consistent with what he did?

No. What this "acceptable alternative" issue is doing is maintaining the system status quo. Rather than giving and receiving people will instead choose to rely on buying and selling. This is precisely the point of the Mark. The values of Heaven vs the values of man. If you take the Mark then you show your loyalty lies with selling your love for a price. If you refuse the Mark, then you show your rejection of that system. It's about finally choosing one master over the other, God or mammon. (Matthew 6:24)

Sure, the prophecy doesn't say anything about microchips, but it doesn't really need to. The similarity between what the prophecy describes and what is actually happening in world banking right now is clear enough, but because it involves the issue of our dependence on money there is a strong temptation to disregard any conclusions which could point toward us needing to confront that dependency.

The mere fact that it's so difficult to get people talking openly and honestly about their reliance on buying/selling in the face of a prophecy which specifically mentions buying and selling shows there is a very serious problem here.

 

[Sinthesis]

[QUOTE="john darling, post: 1080481, member: 7650"buying and selling is an acceptable alternative to give and take". What is actually being communicated here? Why is buying/selling an acceptable alternative to give and take? Perhaps he's using the word "take" in a negative way, like people taking advantage of one another, but even if that's the case, that's not really an alternative to buying and selling since the whole concept of money rests on the concept of forcing payment for our help.

Yes, I'm using 'take' in a negative way. The concept of money does not rest on the concept of forcing payment for our help. You are thinking of extortion.
​

But why should "give" be the alternative instead of the preferred choice? Why should "give" be the choice for which an alternative is needed? What's the problem with giving?

How about you go down to the store and see if they give you what you need. Do you freely give others what they want?
​

Is this idea of "giving" as the alternative to "forcing" (i.e. payment) consistent with what Jesus taught? Is it consistent with what he did?

I did not say giving was an alternative to forcing, rather it is an alternative to selling.
​

No. What this "acceptable alternative" issue is doing is maintaining the system status quo. Rather than giving and receiving people will instead choose to rely on buying and selling. This is precisely the point of the Mark. The values of Heaven vs the values of man. If you take the Mark then you show your loyalty lies with selling your love for a price. If you refuse the Mark, then you show your rejection of that system. It's about finally choosing one master over the other, God or mammon. (Matthew 6:24)

The status quo has been arrived at as an alternative to the values of man, which usually take some form of 'might makes right'. One doesn't need any physical mark to sell their love for a price.
​

Sure, the prophecy doesn't say anything about microchips, but it doesn't really need to. The similarity between what the prophecy describes and what is actually happening in world banking right now is clear enough, but because it involves the issue of our dependence on money there is a strong temptation to disregard any conclusions which could point toward us needing to confront that dependency.

We don't depend on money, rather we use money to help facilitate mutual fair exchange instead of resorting to taking by force/deception/stealth or expecting charity.
​

The mere fact that it's so difficult to get people talking openly and honestly about their reliance on buying/selling in the face of a prophecy which specifically mentions buying and selling shows there is a very serious problem here.

The way endtimes prophecy uses the term 'buying and selling' is specific to the process of submitting acceptable sacrifices within the temple system of the old covenant. It is not about a coming contamination of Christianity.​

 

[Deborah13]

The way endtimes prophecy uses the term 'buying and selling' is specific to the process of submitting acceptable sacrifices within the temple system of the old covenant. It is not about a coming contamination of Christianity.

Do you see a correlation between this and the scripture where Jesus chases the merchants and money lenders out of the temple? They were making His Father's house a den of thieves.

 

[ezrider]

The way endtimes prophecy uses the term 'buying and selling' is specific to the process of submitting acceptable sacrifices within the temple system of the old covenant. It is not about a coming contamination of Christianity.

I do not intend this to incite some preterist debate in this thread, but in relationship to Sinthesis comment about the acceptable buying and selling, and the warning in Matthew 24 to those of "this generation." Something I noticed in the scriptures yesterday, and it was the last thing Peter said to the crowd when the Holy Spirit was poured out on the day of Pentecost.

Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

But if we look without fear, then you might find the image of the beast is none other than the image of Jesus. The old covenant system was destroyed under the Judgement of the Lord. But the old covenant system lives on in the beast, and it holds up the image of their acceptable sacrifice, the image of death, the image of Jesus hanging upon a cross and the blood of their atonement.

Valar Morghulis, for all men must die. All men are marked by the death of Christ. Some come to the knowledge of their own death in Christ and go on to receive the promise of the Father. Others stay worshiping at the cross, and never know anything more than his death, and remain serving the covenant of death waiting for the promise of his coming, but have never accepted their own death through the crucifixion of Christ, but wait instead for the second death, while they offer up the blood of Christ as their acceptable sacrifice.

 

[turnorburn]

The image speaks it has life..

Revelation 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Years ago i had an idea what that image was but how was i going to find that image coming to life, speaking in other words. It would have to be an image that people worshiped, some years later i found it, it said..

My sign is emerging. God wills it thus. Only my children recognize it, as it reveals itself in secrecy, and they praise the Eternal One for it. Today I cannot reveal my power to the whole world. I must withdraw with my children. In secrecy I will perform miracles on the souls until the number of sacrifices has become full. ?Then I can reveal myself to the whole world?[2]

Soon, I will come, my children! Soon, I will be in your midst with a great light. I will enlighten the entire world. Many souls will cry because they did not listen to my call. ?I will pass above everyone in a cloud and everyone will see me. What will become of those who insulted me and made a laughing stock of me? ?I will come soon, my sons, to travel through the entire world. I will give a great sign in the sky for those who will still want to be saved. All those who have recourse to me, who have a look of repentance, this will be sufficient to save them.[3]

I wish to also tell you that before my apparitions end completely, I shall be seen by every denomination and religion throughout this world. I will be seen among all people, not for just a moment, but everyone will have a chance to see me. As I appeared in Zeitoun, I shall appear again so everyone may see me. Pray and help my plans to be realized, not just here, but throughout the world.[4]

http://biblebelievers.com/tetlow/queenofall01.html

tob

 

[reba]

That's what i was taught..then i started to look for someone that would fit this model, the Antichrist, a man possessed by Satan calling himself God. From there i began to see i wasn't the only one to realize who that man was..

Where is scripture do you find the above definition of antichrist... ?

 

[john darling]

Yes, I'm using 'take' in a negative way. The concept of money does not rest on the concept of forcing payment for our help. You are thinking of extortion.

I find it strange that you think the concept of money does not rely on forcing payment especially since you make that very point in your own post. You say, "How about you go down to the store and see if they give you what you need".

You see, you recognize that the grocery store will not help unless money is exchanged. No money, No help. This is how it works in nearly all businesses, and it is not consistent with what Jesus taught. The real question is, why do you deny this concept of forced help in one sentence then go on to prove it in the next?

The status quo has been arrived at as an alternative to the values of man,

Buying and selling (i.e. the status quo) is an alternative to the systems of man? Are you saying the alternative is for people to just take what they want simply because they can? But that's what we already have with buying and selling. There are many cases around the world of people taking more than they need simply because they have the money to do so, while the majority of the world struggles to get even the basics simply because they do not have the money. Your argument just isn't rational when compared to reality.

One doesn't need any physical mark to sell their love for a price.

Very true. The same faith it will take to resist the Mark is the same faith it takes to follow Jesus today. The Mark prophecy does not prove Jesus' teachings, but rather Jesus' teachings provide an answer to the Mark. As it is now people can play all kinds of games with their dependency on materialism and still claim their loyalty lies with God. Many people are genuinely deceived; they've grown up in a world where money makes the world go round and so it's very difficult to see beyond the systems of man. For the AC, it's a means of exploiting people's fears and turning them away from God, but God won't mind because he also wants to see what kind of choice people will make; trust in the AC's material provision, or trust in God's provision.

This is the purpose of the Mark; a highly visible, identifiable piece of proof to once and for all make it very clear what God wants. No more games. No more confusion or double speak about motives of the heart etc...you will take it or reject it and the choice will make it clear to everyone who is on which side.

The way endtimes prophecy uses the term 'buying and selling' is specific to the process of submitting acceptable sacrifices within the temple system of the old covenant. It is not about a coming contamination of Christianity.

All you're really saying with this word salad is that the prophecy has no specific significance for us in today's modern world. You give no explanation as to how or why these points relate, you make no clear connections, you give no scriptural support. For example the prophecy doesn't say anything about the "old covenant". It doesn't say anything about temple sacrifices. And one can only guess as to what you mean by "Contamination of Christianity". it's just a bunch of spiritual sounding jargon which conveniently leads nowhere. I'm not trying to insult you, but along with Peter and Jude (2 Peter 2:17, Jude 1:12) I'm suggesting there are a lot of people out there claiming to offer water when there is barely a trace of moisture in their doctrines.

The prophecy simply says it will be a Mark in the hand (or forehead) to control buying and selling. All one need do is compare what the prophecy actually says to what's actually happening in world banking right now. A mark in the hand for buying and selling. A microchip in the hand for buying and selling.

It's happening right now.

 

[turnorburn]

Where is scripture do you find the above definition of antichrist... ?

One place is in Daniel

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

i have to be careful here reba because evidence needs to be addressed..

tob

*edit: what do you think about the image, it has life and it speaks, did you read what is in that link?

 

[Sinthesis]

Do you see a correlation between this and the scripture where Jesus chases the merchants and money lenders out of the temple? They were making His Father's house a den of thieves.

Yes. I imagine the Romanizing elements of the Jewish leadership eventually even officially sanctioned the presence of the profiteering elements Jesus repeatedly drove out of the temple, provided they got their cut.

 

[reba]

One place is in Daniel

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

i have to be careful here reba because evidence needs to be addressed..

tob

*edit: what do you think about the image, it has life and it speaks, did you read what is in that link?

Says nothing of antichrist. you interpret it so but it does not say it..