The identity of the antichrist in 5 verses

[n2thelight]

Hi n2thelight,

The Political system has a leader, & that leader is the Assyrian controlled by Satan. We notice that in Rev. 13 it goes from speaking about the world global system to the individual who leads it – one of the heads.

`Who is like the beast, & who is able to wage war with HIM? And there was given HIM a mouth speaking arrogant words & blasphemies; & authority to act for 42 months was given HIM. And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name & His tabernacle....` (Rev. 13: 4 – 6)

Also remember the religious system gets burned, -
`And the 10 horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the prostitute, make her desolate & naked, eat her flesh & burn her with fire.` (Rev. 17: 16)

You are right Satan does not have the power to bring anyone back to life, that is why it is a `false resurrection.`

Marilyn.

Hello again

The Assyrian is satan

 

[n2thelight]

Hi n2thelight,

Now as to the information that you downloaded, as I can`t talk to the person I really can only say to you what I think.

1. No evidence. You will notice in Rev. 12: 7 that the author of the article makes a statement but does not back it up. (...when Satan is cast out of heaven & will physically appear here on earth..) Where is the scripture /s to support this? To me that is just his opinion or speculation. Mmmmmm

2. Confuses Satan`s position. Yes there are two beasts, one the Global Government with its Political leader, & two, the Religious/Economic leader who only gets his power in the presence of the Political leader.

`And he exercises all the authority of the first beast (leader) in his presence...` (Rev. 13: 12)

Satan, through the Global leader controls the world. Governments need a Political & an Economic leader with the Religious aspect to motivate people. This is Satan`s desire to lead the world, to be the Political leader. To do this he needs to control people economically & religiously. That is why the second leader causes everyone to have the mark of the global leader, & to worship the Political leader. Note the second leader does not say for people to worship himself, which he would do if he were Satan.

`And he (the false prophet) deceives those who dwell on the earth.....& cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast (Global leader) to be killed.` (Rev. 13: 14 & 15)

We see a global world government, a global political leader (head), & a global religious/economic leader.

Marilyn.

The below is when satan gets kicked out of heaven along with his angels,the locust army

Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Mi'-cha-el and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,,"

Revelation 12:8 "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."

Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Sa'-tan, which deceived the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

As for the leaders they are basically almost already in place,satan will rule over the entire earth pretending to be Christ

If you have time read the link below

edited for content

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi n2thelight,

Yes I agree the leaders are almost in place.

Now as to Satan being the Assyrian -

1. He was not born in Assyrian, thus he does not have that nationality.

2. The Assyrian is killed (Isa. 31: 8) whereas Satan cannot be killed & is only bound & cast into the bottomless pit. (Rev. 20: 3)

What scripture/s do you have to prove that Satan is the Assyrian?

Marilyn.

 

[n2thelight]

Hi n2thelight,

Yes I agree the leaders are almost in place.

Now as to Satan being the Assyrian -

1. He was not born in Assyrian, thus he does not have that nationality.

2. The Assyrian is killed (Isa. 31: 8) whereas Satan cannot be killed & is only bound & cast into the bottomless pit. (Rev. 20: 3)

What scripture/s do you have to prove that Satan is the Assyrian?

Marilyn.

Hope you don't mind,but I'll start with a question.Who was the king of tyrus?

Please know that I really appreciate the civil manner of our discussion...It's how I feel Christians should communicate with one another,even through disagreement..........

 

[n2thelight]

Isaiah 31:7 "For in that day every man shall cast away his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which your own hands have made unto you for a sin."

"In that day", is the day that Christ returns to this earth, and it is the first day of the Millennium age. On that day every man will cast off his idols, and all forms of idolatry. Man will no longer be in their flesh bodies, but in their spiritual incorruptable bodies that will never age. They will have complete knowledge of God's plan, and anything that you place before God will be gone. The bodies that we will have will be like that of the angels. All things of the flesh will be gone, and work will not be as it is known in this earth age of the flesh. There will be a change not only in these flesh bodies, but also to the very earth itself. It will be a glorious time to look forward to. On that day, every knee will bow to our Lord Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 31:8 "Then shall the Assyrian fall with the sword, not of a mighty man; and the sword, not of a mean man, shall devour him: but he shall flee from the sword, and his young men shall be discomfited."

On that day, the first day of the Millennium the Assyrian will fall by the sword of God, which is the Word of God that comes out of the mouth of Jesus Christ. Again the "Assyrian" is the name for Satan, who is the false messiah. This was documented in Isaiah 14. Satan has be called the Assyrian from that chapter on. On that day of the Lord, it will not be any man in the flesh that shall bring down Satan and cast him into the pit, and his fallen angels but our Lord Jesus Christ. On that day all of Satan's followers will see and understand who Christ is, and bow their knee to Him. It is the sword of the Lord, that is the Word of God that brings it all to pass, The Word that comes from the mouth of Jesus.

Ezekiel 31:3 "Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs."

So we see that one of Satan's names is "the Assyrian" [box tree], and he is trying to disguise himself as a cedar, which he is not.

Ezekiel 31:7 "Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters."

In other words, this old "teashshur" [Satan] is fallen down and in the abyss, and the people are happy because they are not being bothered by him.

Ezekiel 31:8 "The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chesnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty."

This verse tells us when Satan came to his greatness in this earth age. The "cedars of Lebanon" are always symbolic of God's children. God is pointing out that each type of tree is different that the others, in other words, the cedar is not like the oak, nor like the cypress. All the trees leaves fade and fall, but the evergreen [cedar] stands green and solid all year around.This symbolizes that when you are in Christ, your strengthstands solid all the time. Satan was the most beautiful creature of all God's creation, and his description of his beauty is given to us in Ezekiel 28.

Ezekiel 31:9 "I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him."

"Eden" spoken of here is the "Garden of Eden"

Ezekiel 31:10 "Therefore thus saith the Lord God; `Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs , and his heart is lifted up in his height;"

God didn't raise or elevate Satan to his heights, but Satan lifted himself up to declare himself equal to God. This pinpoints the sin that caused Satan's fall, it is his pride; "his heart is lifted up in his height". This pride will cause the destruction of Satan following the Millennium age.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi n2thelight,

I`m also appreciate your good manner in this conversation.

Now I do agree that Isaiah 14 & Ezekiel 28 & 31 show the Law of Duplication or double reference as scholars call it. That meaning where God is speaking to one person & addresses another. We see this also in the Psalms, eg 22 where we read of David`s sufferings but realise it is running parallel with the sufferings of our Lord.

Yet we need to be aware that it is only when the Lord shows us this double reference & it is therefore not for us to assume that every time we read of David we are talking of the Lord, or every time we read of the Assyrian that we are talking of Satan. Thus Isaiah 31: 8 speaking of the Assyrian is only talking of a man.

In your notes you have moved on to speak of other topics - the Millennium etc & maybe they would be for another thread. I would be happy to discuss that with you should you so desire.

Blessings, Marilyn.

 

[n2thelight]

Hi n2thelight,

I`m also appreciate your good manner in this conversation.

Now I do agree that Isaiah 14 & Ezekiel 28 & 31 show the Law of Duplication or double reference as scholars call it. That meaning where God is speaking to one person & addresses another. We see this also in the Psalms, eg 22 where we read of David`s sufferings but realise it is running parallel with the sufferings of our Lord.

Yet we need to be aware that it is only when the Lord shows us this double reference & it is therefore not for us to assume that every time we read of David we are talking of the Lord, or every time we read of the Assyrian that we are talking of Satan. Thus Isaiah 31: 8 speaking of the Assyrian is only talking of a man.

In your notes you have moved on to speak of other topics - the Millennium etc & maybe they would be for another thread. I would be happy to discuss that with you should you so desire.

Blessings, Marilyn.

Agree to disagree on Isaiah 31:8......Whom is the Assyrian in Ezekiel 31:3?The notes were to show how satan as the 2nd beast takes control of the world.......

 

[john darling]

Who will believe the lie?

Hi Deborah. We're all capable of believing lies. God can protect us, but he won't do so against our free will. He won't force a person to believe the truth. The most sincere person can still choose to turn away from God and it usually happens in the most subtle ways. The heart is deceitful above all things. This is why Jesus talked about hungering and thirsting after "right-ness". We become entangled in so many self deceptions that seeing past them sometimes takes an act of desperation.

Jesus talked about people having eyes and ears, but still being unwilling to see or hear. He said, "this people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me". These people say the right things. They believe they are genuine followers, but their heart is still far from God. The strong delusion can easily lead a person to believe they are right with God when they are, in fact, very far from him.

For example, lots of Christians know the right things to say when it comes to obeying Jesus. They know we should agree that obedience is a good thing. They may even quote verses about how we can't love God if we don't obey him, or give some examples from their own life where they obeyed God. But when it comes to specific teachings about materialism, pride, greed, reputation, family... radical, challenging, break-out-of-the-systems-of-man life changing teachings they suddenly have a long list of excuses for why Jesus didn't really mean what he said, how we're not saved by "works", how those teachings were only meant for specific people like the apostles or a specific rich man etc.

Jesus talked about the "deceitfulness of riches" choking the word in a person's heart (Luke 8:14. This was not a teaching for a specific person. It's a consistent theme all throughout the NT. I could quote verse after verse to show it, but what good would it do? I've done that same thing dozens of times thinking, "maybe if I overwhelm them with a long list of evidence it will make them see" but that hasn't worked either (well, not that I know of).

It doesn't matter how good and clear the evidence is if a person does not want to see the truth. That is the point of strong delusion. Look at Jesus and the pharisees. You can hear the frustration in his voice when he's talking to them. He says, "if you don't want to believe me just because I say so, at least believe the miracles I'm doing"! (John 10:38)

They witnessed miracle after miracle from him. They had others say to them, "how can a man do such miracles if he's not from God?" But they couldn't hear it. They couldn't see it. Was it the riches which deceived them? Did they deceive themselves? Was it their parents or the culture around them which deceived them? In the end it really doesn't matter. The point is that even when confronted with the truth from the son of God himself, they still chose to believe a lie. In one breath Jesus praised Peter for his ability to hear from God and in the next he was practically referring to him as Satan. The same can be true for any one of us no matter how confident we feel about our faith or God's love, because God's love will not hide our unwillingness to see the truth.

This same "deceitfulness of riches" is what will cause people to miss the significance of the Mark. Because they put their trust in money as their source of life and provision they see no problem with buying/selling, despite the warning in the prophecy which specifically mentions buying and selling! When someone comes along exposing the deception it's viewed as "hysteria". It's casually dismissed, explained away or ignored altogether.

The pharisees were just ordinary human beings the same as us. We are not better than them when it comes to the same basic human fallacies. With hindsight we can see just how stubborn and foolish the they were, but people who ignore the obvious regarding the Mark cannot see the same foolishness in themselves. A "Mark" in the hand for buying/selling; a microchip in the hand for buying/selling and in one way or another they say "so what". This is strong delusion.

 

[john darling]

if you really believed that , tell me then how is that we don't enter into hiding now?

Depends on the circumstances and what God is telling each individual to do.

ammo to be bought. so someone will have to steal that. or buy it for you

If you believe God is telling you to buy/steal ammo (presumably for guns) to fight the AC then you should do that, but it seems awfully contrary to what Jesus has already told us should be our weapon (i.e. the sword of the spirit).

many a city folk couldn't survive in the wild

It seems a lot of people miss one of the most basic lessons of both the Revelation and the gospels. Our job is not to survive. Our job is to serve. Maybe God will call some people to hide and maybe he will call some people to witness, or maybe he will call some people to do a bit of both at various times. A willingness to be open to the spirit is your best chance for survival, but even then that kinda misses the point because there may be situations where God does not want us to survive, but rather to lay down our lives as a testimony that there is more to life than simple survival. As the saying goes, "if you have nothing worth dying for then do you really have anything worth living for"?

 

[Deborah13]

The strong delusion can easily lead a person to believe they are right with God when they are, in fact, very far from him.

That is the point of strong delusion.

This is strong delusion.

It is God who sends the strong delusion on them who have not believed the truth, so that they might be saved.
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Nothing here about God sending a strong delusion on saved people only on the unsaved. It doesn't matter what a person thinks about himself, God knows those who are His and He does not send them a strong delusion.
I don't know anywhere that scripture that says God will send a delusion on saved people. If you do, please post it.
If you can't post a scripture to support your view that saved people could believe the lie, so that they worship the beast and are marked, then I have nothing more to say about it.

 

[JohnD]

Matthew 24:24 (NIV84)
24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.

Holy Spirit living within endures many griefs and much alienation by the hosts (i.e. us), but this deception and / or becoming possessed by another spirit is simply not possible for a Holy Ghost indwelt believer in Jesus Christ.

 

[JohnD]

I experienced this first hand in SB seminary extension course in Austin, Tx @ 1991 when the powers that be in that denom approve of the forced teaching of Deutero / Trito - Isaiah in their curriculum. My answers in the test were so-n-so "according to your textbook." I passed the course but quit the school that night.

The gist of the Deutero - Trito Isaiah teaching is that the textbook approval committees simply do not believe in supernaturalism and relegate the prophetic fulfillments to later entries (after the fact) by those in the various "schools of Isaiah" in some cases hundreds of years later who simply doctored the texts to appear prophetic.

Seriously.

I recall arguing with the instructor, a man who (up to that point) I respected immensely. He was treating me as though I was hearing for the first time that babies and the Bible were not brought by the stork. I thanked him for his concern and told him this was a matter of the integrity and authentication of the Bible itself (if it be not supernatural then it be not the Word of God) which I did not go into any detail about, and withdrew from the course.

If any portion of the Bible were doctored, then it would not even be a reliable human document. How then could we venerate it as holy writ when the ink on alleged past prophecy hasn't dried yet?

 

[JohnD]

For this reason and the compromises of the denom on the issue of Freemasonry / nude models at Baylor university art classes I withdrew from the entire denomination in 1991 / 1992 (too long ago and I'm getting too old to recall precisely which), you young whipper snappers! :blush

 

[Deborah13]

Matthew 24:24 (NIV84)
24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.

Holy Spirit living within endures many griefs and much alienation by the hosts (i.e. us), but this deception and / or becoming possessed by another spirit is simply not possible for a Holy Ghost indwelt believer in Jesus Christ.

:nod

The gist of the Deutero - Trito Isaiah teaching is that the textbook approval committees simply do not believe in supernaturalism and relegate the prophetic fulfillments to later entries (after the fact) by those in the various "schools of Isaiah" in some cases hundreds of years later who simply doctored the texts to appear prophetic

YIKE!

 

[JohnD]

Yes, there is one atheist / secular humanist (I am aware of) teaching at a seminary (which one I'll have to do some digging to find again). While previous seminary products who no longer believe in God still preach in the pulpits, one of which:

Here’s a statement they attribute to “Wes,” the pastor of a Methodist congregation:

“I will be the first to admit that I see Christianity as a means to an end, not as an end unto itself. And the end is very basically, a kind of liberal, democratic values. So I will use Christianity sometimes against itself to try to lead people to that point. But there’s so much within the Christian tradition that itself influenced the development of those liberal values, you know. They didn’t arise through secular means. They came out of some religious stuff. …I could couch all that in very secular language. If we were in a college setting, I would. But we’re in a religious setting, so I use the religious language.”


Read more: http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists...rs-who-dont-believe-in-god.html#ixzz3aEeTou3F

 

[john darling]

It doesn't matter what a person thinks about himself,

That depends. If a person is refuses to believe the truth, instead choosing to believe a lie, then it matters. Isn't that what the verse you posted says? They "received not the love of the truth". Instead they choose to believe lies. This thing about "sending strong delusion" basically says what I've been saying this whole time; God will not override a person's free will. He will not force a person out of their delusion.

I don't know anywhere that scripture that says God will send a delusion on saved people. If you do, please post it.

This isn't a case of who has the best proof text. I fully agree with the verses you've already posted. I think they are completely consistent with what I've been saying. They only become inconsistent in a situation where you want to claim a person is saved despite their unwillingness to believe the truth.

Can't you see that's exactly what the "Lord, Lord" warning was about? They called him "Lord". They claimed to have done so many wonderful things for God and yet Jesus said, "I never knew you". They obviously believed they should have been known. They believed they were saved and yet they were not. They were deluded.

The problem wasn't that they did works, but that they were workers of iniquity when they should have been workers of love in rightesousness. Instead of doing what Jesus wanted them to do, they did OTHER religious works.

Jesus mentions this exact issue at the end of the sermon on the mount. He talks about wise and foolish people. Both the wise AND the foolish people heard Jesus' teachings, but only the wise person obeyed. Their wisdom or foolishness was dependent on their willingness, or UNwillingness, to obey. In other words, you're not saved just because you claim to be saved.

If you can't post a scripture to support your view that saved people could believe the lie, so that they worship the beast and are marked, then I have nothing more to say about it.

MT 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
MT 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
MT 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

They have the appearance of "saved" but inside they are ravening wolves. Few people will "find" the truth because they are more interested in looking like sheep than actually being sheep. So your question is a misnomer. It's not that saved people will be fooled. It's that there are many who claim to be saved attempting to fool God.

 

[john darling]

24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.

Holy Spirit living within endures many griefs and much alienation by the hosts (i.e. us), but this deception and / or becoming possessed by another spirit is simply not possible for a Holy Ghost indwelt believer in Jesus Christ.

God will protect us but only insomuch that we are willing to be protected. God will not protect us from our own free will. It's like a person claiming to be saved and then going to rob a bank, suggesting that if God really wants to then he will stop the person from robbing, because God will not allow the elect to be deceived. It sounds ridiculous, right? We know it's not okay to rob a bank.

But it's the same with the Mark. We already have the instructions not to take it. We have a description of what it will look like (i.e. on the hand) and what it's purpose will be (i.e. buying and selling). We have the answer to the Mark, (i.e. live by faith in God's system of sharing rather than man's system of wages).

And yet people use the same argument as the above mentioned bank robber; God will not allow us to be deceived. No personal integrity, responsibility, or faithfulness necessary. God will do it all for us. But that is strong delusion. God will not stop you from taking the Mark. He will warn you. He will attempt to influence and reason with you. But he won't stop you. If your trust is in money you will take the Mark. If your trust is in God you will see the Mark for what it is and you will reject it.

 

[JohnD]

Hence the many griefs I already mentioned.

As far as not believing in Jesus or that the Antichrist is God incarnate... ain't gonna happen. God also has the last say even on our free will.

If in our free will we are so stupid as to not cease and desist on whatever God has had enough about....

1 Corinthians 5:5 (NIV84)
5hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.

Never try to outsmart an omniscient mind.

 

[Sinthesis]

If the real sin behind the marks the beast is simple everyday economic buying and selling, then everyone on this board is already guilty of it. If the mark of the beast is a computer chip in the hand enabling one to sin, only more efficiently than before, then so what? The mark of the beast is a device you must accept in order for you to sin? Does anybody see how ironic this kind of mark would be? It's introduction would force God's people to stop their current 'sinning', meaning the beast would be a fool to require it.

Exactly what companies are planning to market a computer chip in the forehead?

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi n2thelight,

Let`s just have a look at Satan`s unholy trinity –

1. Satan – The father of Lies. (counterfeit of God the Father)
2. The Political Leader of the Global System – The anti-Christ. (counterfeit of Jesus Christ)
3. The False Prophet – The Religious & Economic leader. (counterfeit of the Holy Spirit)

These 3 are clearly shown when the Lord deals with them.

1. Satan – bound & cast into the bottomless pit for a thousand years. (Rev. 20: 1 – 3)
2. The Political Leader (Head of the beast government), the anti-Christ – cast alive into the lake of fire. (Rev. 19: 20)
3. The Religious & Economic Leader (false prophet) was also cast alive into the lake of fire. (Rev. 19: 20)

So in Rev. 13 we can distinguish the 3 –

1. Satan – the dragon gave him his power, his throne & great authority. (Rev. 13: 2)
2. The Political Leader – one of the heads ....he was given a mouth speaking .....(Rev. 13: 3 – 5)
3. The Religious & Economic Leader - `he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. (Rev. 13: 12) Note he didn`t have crowns on his horns. Crowns denote Political power. Thus this man had power (religious/economic) but it was not Political.

Hope that is clearer, Marilyn.