The identity of the antichrist in 5 verses

[Rollo Tamasi]

Maybe I could if I knew what you were thinking to start with. Perhaps you can explain the Mormon belief and show how that relates to anything I might have noted from the scriptures so I know what you're talking about.

I think you know.
I've never heard anyone ever talk that way except a Mormon.
You can hide it from the rest but you can't hide it from me.

 

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I think you know.
I've never heard anyone ever talk that way except a Mormon.
You can hide it from the rest but you can't hide it from me.

Just to dispel any notions, no, I have NEVER been a "Mormon" nor am I associated in any ways with them or their beliefs.

As to your claims, without specifics I still have no idea what you are even talking about.

 

[smaller]

and I will show you things that must be hereafter (The Churches) And immediately he was in the Spirit where the throne of Christ was setting in heaven (REV. 4: 1-3).
Chapter 4 & 5 go on to describe the order of beings in heaven,and then the tribulation and events that will happen after the Churches. Compare (1 Cor. 15: 51-52) with (Rev. 4: 1-3) . This is the RAPTURE that no one believes in. (Rev. 3: 10) God makes this promise to the faithful and Spirit filled Church. It is after the Church is Raptured that The Tribulation begins.

I might agree with that to a very limited extent Douglas, for example to the church of Philadelphia, we have a specific statement, and yes, this could theoretically apply to "all" the churches but it could just as easily not:

Rev. 3:
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

But that sight can be offset by this, clearly showing the "elect" being gathered after the tribulation.

Matt. 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Again, here. And we can also see that Mark has included the gathering of the elect, also from the earth, and not just heaven, as noted in Matt. above:

Mark 13
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

I think we can conclusively see that at least 'some' elect will be on earth after the tribulation.

I wouldn't hinge the idea on John being taken up in the Spirit as a definitive figure of "all elect" being raptured prior to tribulation, as that to me would not be the case.

If we listen to what is being said to all the churches prior, we can also clearly see that various operations of Satan and his ilk/ways are in fact operational "in the churches" and that assuredly the devil and his messengers ARE going to be dealt with, severely, during the tribulation. Their location is obvious enough isn't it?

The "hiding place" of Satan and his messengers has been "in man" from the start of this gig of man, on earth. None are or were exempt, save for God Himself in the flesh.

There is more than meets the eye of flesh for all these things.

God IS dealing with adverse spirits on the earth and IN MAN and these various wicked agents are not man.

No different than Jesus speaking to Satan in Peter or Satan entering Judas or a messenger of Satan being in the flesh of Paul. It's not like we don't have clear examples of the location of our enemies. They are operational still, in the flesh of all sinners.

 

[Douglas Summers]

I might agree with that to a very limited extent Douglas, for example to the church of Philadelphia, we have a specific statement, and yes, this could theoretically apply to "all" the churches but it could just as easily not:

Rev. 3:
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

But that sight can be offset by this, clearly showing the "elect" being gathered after the tribulation.

Matt. 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Again, here. And we can also see that Mark has included the gathering of the elect, also from the earth, and not just heaven, as noted in Matt. above:

Mark 13
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

I think we can conclusively see that at least 'some' elect will be on earth after the tribulation.

I wouldn't hinge the idea on John being taken up in the Spirit as a definitive figure of "all elect" being raptured prior to tribulation, as that to me would not be the case.

If we listen to what is being said to all the churches prior, we can also clearly see that various operations of Satan and his ilk/ways are in fact operational "in the churches" and that assuredly the devil and his messengers ARE going to be dealt with, severely, during the tribulation. Their location is obvious enough isn't it?

The "hiding place" of Satan and his messengers has been "in man" from the start of this gig of man, on earth. None are or were exempt, save for God Himself in the flesh.

There is more than meets the eye of flesh for all these things.

God IS dealing with adverse spirits on the earth and IN MAN and these various wicked agents are not man.

No different than Jesus speaking to Satan in Peter or Satan entering Judas or a messenger of Satan being in the flesh of Paul. It's not like we don't have clear examples of the location of our enemies. They are operational still, in the flesh of all sinners.

You fail to understand that the church, the body of Christ, are rulers with Christ. We judge with Christ, we rule with Christ. Christ is our brother according to the Spirit, and God is our Father as we are the Son's of God. It is the Church, The body of Christ that will be the administration or government of God. When He returns to judge and deliver His wrath. We will be with Him. But before He returns to destroy the wicked, He calls out all the elect of God. His son's are already with Him through the rapture.. The Church is the legislative body, all others are subjects of the kingdom. just as the Levetical tribe of Israel were not all priest, but many served in the temple ministering to the priest and care of the temple (Numbers Chapter 3).(Rev. 1: 4-6) (1 Cor. 6:1-3) and we have become Heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ. (JOINT HEIRS). (2 Tim. 2:12). One thing you don't see to often in the Churches in the U.S., Canada, England and other democratic countries is suffering for Christ. being poor, being treated unfairly, being accused of things you did not do, etc. is not suffering for Christ. Most pastors in these countries are materially wealthy, and expect it from the congregation to keep them that way. No spiritual humility. it would take too much space to report all the church pastors that have made an excess of material gain from Christ ministry That is not from Spiritual obedience of the pastors, but greed and self willed religion. .

 

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But before He returns to destroy the wicked, He calls out all the elect of God. His son's are already with Him through the rapture.

That's kind of why I cited the scriptures that say the elect are gathered from the earth AFTER the tribulation. Presumably at least "some" elect will be present through same.

As to supposed post tribulation government of Christ, really, the last thing I'd care to do is rule anyone quite frankly. So not interested.

 

[JCitoL]

First we see the verse that unravels the bible -

Revelation 13:18 "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

Who had wisdom and understanding?

1 Kings 3:12 "Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee."

2 Chronicles 1:11-12 "
And God said to Solomon, Because this was in thine heart, and thou hast not asked riches, wealth, or honour, nor the life of thine enemies, neither yet hast asked long life; but hast asked wisdom and knowledge for thyself, that thou mayest judge my people, over whom I have made thee king:12 Wisdom and knowledge is granted unto thee; and I will give thee riches, and wealth, and honour, such as none of the kings have had that have been before thee, neither shall there any after thee have the like."

Who had the number 666?

1 Kings 10:14 "Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold,"

God gives it to us again just in case we missed it and was asleep.

1 Chronicles 9:13 "Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred and threescore and six talents of gold;"



Thus the beast was a MAN (KJV), and that man was king Solomon.

1 Kings 3:12 "Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.

According to that King Solomon will return. As the great king, the antichrist, the man of sin.

not Solomon is the biblical "beast(666)", but that "beast" is one of the main manifestations of the "darkness" that are not besouled(animate) beings in and of themselves, but they are just universal satanic spirits, "universal" because they are kind of omnipresent and in general universal in natural potential, the "dragon", the "beast" and the other "beast" are the three main misleading manifestations of the "darkness", inanimate spirits per se and satanic equivalents of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit also known as sat, cit(chit) and ananda from the spiritual/religious tradition of india, which is the most satanic; as for the antichrist, there have been many human antichrists, and to speak of only one human antichrist is a waste of time, on the other hand the main antichrist is the devil itself, but as we already mentioned above, it is the main manifestation of the "darkness" and is not a besouled/animate being in and of itself, so there have been many human antichrists, some of them even complete(resurrected in the "darkness") angels of satan, others on the way to become such, but also having great presence, power, might, glory, sublimity and wisdom in the "darkness", while Solomon is a Prophet of the true Lord God, moreover, the greatest Prophet of the old covenant/testament, which was also professed by the Lord Jesus Christ as such

1 Kings 4:29-34 "God gave Solomon wisdom and understanding exceeding much, and largeness of heart, even as the sand that is on the sea shore. And Solomon's wisdom excelled the wisdom of all the children of the east country, and all the wisdom of Egypt. For he was wiser than all men; than Ethan the Ezrahite, and Heman, and Chalcol, and Darda, the sons of Mahol: and his fame was in all nations round about. And he spake three thousand proverbs: and his songs were a thousand and five. And he spake of trees, from the cedar tree that is in Lebanon even unto the hyssop that springeth out of the wall: he spake also of beasts, and of fowl, and of creeping things, and of fishes. And there came of all people to hear the wisdom of Solomon, from all kings of the earth, which had heard of his wisdom.",

Luke 11:31 "The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here."

here is also an additional info about the antichrists with art illustrations:

the "tree" that is beyond the Eden (garden) and that has been forbidden by God, also called (the) "fig tree"(art image):


a human can "eat" of it by exercising/practicing occultism, esotericism, idolatry and, in general, unrighteous faith/spirituality/religion, but initially this happened in the form of the creed that for the last millennia has been known as yoga of krishna and patanjali


yoga as a "tree" of the knowledge of good and evil and the yogi as cognizing/knowing and joining/uniting in it(art image):


the "third eye"(a.k.a. the sixth chakra) on the forehead of a female yogi(n) in the process of yoga(art image):


this is a process that turns the human(the practitioner) into a spiritual servant/worker of satan, while the culmination is its transformation in (complete) angel of satan


an yogi(n) in process of cosmic transcendental meditation and the so-called "chakras"(seven main satanic spirits)(art image):


an yogi(n) in process of intensive and deep yoga meditation, there is a powerful prana(satanic force) unleashing in him(art image):


the peak culmination of yoga is when after an intensive, deep and long-standing meditation there occurs physical death for the yogi(n) and it resurrects in the "darkness" like the Lord, Jesus Christ, Who has (been) resurrected in the "Light", so the yogi(n) turns into a complete angel of satan mastering/having powers for great signs and wonders even of cosmic scale by which maximum number of people to be misled/lied, including various types of wisdom, omnipresence, telepathy, telekinesis, teleportation, materialization, dematerialization, etc.


a complete angel of satan showing great signs and wonders of cosmic scale (in this case cosmic nebulas, supernova or other cosmic phenomena)(art image):


the kingdom of satan (whose structure consists of many occult areas) can exist for no more than 5-6 millennia reckoned from the day of the original sin(fall) on, then there will be a full destruction of it and all that inhabit it

Blessings

 

[Douglas Summers]

That's kind of why I cited the scriptures that say the elect are gathered from the earth AFTER the tribulation. Presumably at least "some" elect will be present through same.

As to supposed post tribulation government of Christ, really, the last thing I'd care to do is rule anyone quite frankly. So not interested.

Can't help it, that is what the Scriptures teach, that is what God has called for...not me. I myself do not feel worthy of such. But if we can not defend the teachings of Christ or believe Him, what else do you disagree with that the Lord has planned. I gave you clear and irrefutable Scripture. that is why there is so much schism in the visible church, men tend to change Gods teaching to fit their own belief. self willed worship. It is called trespassing (self will intruding into the sphere of divine authority) Study and pray about it. if your are sincere, He will confirm or deny it. We can only sow, it is God who gives the increase. God is sovereign, not man. Those that are gathered after the tribulation are those that are saved while going through it. ( Revelation Chapter 7) That is when the majority of mankind will be saved by the 144,000 preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom (Matt. 24: 14).

 

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Can't help it, that is what the Scriptures teach, that is what God has called for...not me. I myself do not feel worthy of such. But if we can not defend the teachings of Christ or believe Him, what else do you disagree with that the Lord has planned. I gave you clear and irrefutable Scripture.

Views on "rule" would be dependent. Rule who/what would seem to be in order. I might suppose that the first thing that pops into most people's heads is that "rule" entails ruling some other person(s). That isn't necessarily the irrefutable scriptural case. imho that's not what "rule" entails from the vantage point of scripture.

In scripture a man is or can be allegorically as "a city."

Proverbs 25:28
He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

Isaiah 62:12
And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the Lord: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.

We "build" on the foundation of Christ to make our city. We "rule and reign" with Christ, in our own temple, in our own city.

There are many sights that can be had in the "city." Battles transpire therein. Rule is certainly required therein. Evil transpires "within" the city, and must be ruled over.

Perspectives obviously can be quite different. The majority of sights immediately turn to the external world. I generally reject such notions as fleshly and external sights, not spiritual insight.

that is why there is so much schism in the visible church, men tend to change Gods teaching to fit their own belief. self willed worship. It is called trespassing (self will intruding into the sphere of divine authority) Study and pray about it. if your are sincere, He will confirm or deny it. We can only sow, it is God who gives the increase. God is sovereign, not man. Those that are gathered after the tribulation are those that are saved while going through it. ( Revelation Chapter 7) That is when the majority of mankind will be saved by the 144,000 preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom (Matt. 24: 14).

Pertaining to the anti-Christ, this bad actor is currently seated in the temple of "man."

This is easy to perceive for anyone "in Truth." We all have sin as a current tense fact, 1 John 1:8, and sin is of the devil, 1 John 3:8. Paul gave this same example for himself in 2 Cor. 12:7, showing a messenger of Satan in his own "flesh" temple, which made his own flesh contrary to the Spirit. Gal. 5:17

These are not hard things to understand, when we are "led," to honestly view ourselves.

We ALL engage and RESIST the anti-Christ spirit, personally, individually, internally, in our own temple, in our own city.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Views on "rule" would be dependent. Rule who/what would seem to be in order. I might suppose that the first thing that pops into most people's heads is that "rule" entails ruling some other person(s). That isn't necessarily the irrefutable scriptural case. imho that's not what "rule" entails from the vantage point of scripture.

In scripture a man is or can be allegorically as "a city."

Proverbs 25:28
He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

Isaiah 62:12
And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the Lord: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.

We "build" on the foundation of Christ to make our city. We "rule and reign" with Christ, in our own temple, in our own city.

There are many sights that can be had in the "city." Battles transpire therein. Rule is certainly required therein. Evil transpires "within" the city, and must be ruled over.

Perspectives obviously can be quite different. The majority of sights immediately turn to the external world. I generally reject such notions as fleshly and external sights, not spiritual insight.



Pertaining to the anti-Christ, this bad actor is currently seated in the temple of "man."

This is easy to perceive for anyone "in Truth." We all have sin as a current tense fact, 1 John 1:8, and sin is of the devil, 1 John 3:8. Paul gave this same example for himself in 2 Cor. 12:7, showing a messenger of Satan in his own "flesh" temple, which made his own flesh contrary to the Spirit. Gal. 5:17

These are not hard things to understand, when we are "led," to honestly view ourselves.

We ALL engage and RESIST the anti-Christ spirit, personally, individually, internally, in our own temple, in our own city.

IMHO is not Scriptural, and while each of us are individually born of the Spirit, it is the same Spirit and is Incorporated into one body with one purpose under one God , one Lord and savor and one baptism of that Spirit for one purpose and one mind..(Eph. 4:1-6) This is not perspective. This is God's creation. Nothing is left up to self will, for it is the will of God. Yes, it is obvious that the flesh can have a quit different perspective., but the born again Spirit is not perspective., it is sovereign and absolute.
I'm not sure how your reference Scriptures pertain to God's purpose of His Church? There has to be unity of purpose. There is nothing I can do but exhort , give Scripture proof and pray. The rest is up to you and your relationship and fellowship with God Proving all things.

 

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IMHO is not Scriptural,

What isn't scriptural Douglas?

I know that most will resist this fact, and they do so "under the influence."

"We ALL engage and RESIST the anti-Christ spirit, personally, individually, internally, in our own temple, in our own city."

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

To JCitol, that's against the ToS to promote Chakra.

 

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To JCitol, that's against the ToS to promote Chakra.

He's pointing out that the activity is Satanic. Hardly promotion.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

He's pointing out that the activity is Satanic. Hardly promotion.

He did a little more than that and I was warned about Chakra for saying a lot less.
And while were at it, what denomination do you associate yourself with?

 

[smaller]

He did a little more than that and I was warned about Chakra for saying a lot less.

Obviously JCitol is immersed in the Indian/Hindu culture, so why wouldn't he talk about how that activity is Satanic?

And while were at it, what denomination do you associate yourself with?

Start a witch hunt thread.

I adhere FULLY to the SoF at this site.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Obviously JCitol is immersed in the Indian/Hindu culture, so why wouldn't he talk about how that activity is Satanic?


Start a witch hunt thread.

I adhere FULLY to the SoF at this site.

I sometimes wonder if I'm the only person on this forum that goes to church.
I guess my whole missionary field is right here.

 

[Douglas Summers]

What isn't scriptural Douglas?

I know that most will resist this fact, and they do so "under the influence."

"We ALL engage and RESIST the anti-Christ spirit, personally, individually, internally, in our own temple, in our own city."

You said to me in your last post that it was your humble opinion' And I said your humble opinion is not Scripture. What was called heretical teaching and false doctrine in the first church is now acceptable today, and the visible church is either unaware or just does not care. What a surprise it will be when they are asked to leave the wedding banquet.

 

[JCitoL]

To JCitol, that's against the ToS to promote Chakra.

how do i promote chakra?!, i speak against those devilish spirits, i am not on their side, which is clear enough from what i explained above, i even hate evilness

Blessings

 

[smaller]

You said to me in your last post that it was your humble opinion' And I said your humble opinion is not Scripture.

We're all tasked with "understanding" scripture. It doesn't come automatically. And yes, I do have part sighted reflections just like everyone else, inclusive of Paul for example. It is important to me to have "honest" opinions of what I read/perceive. I also think God in Christ has been exceptionally faithful to me in this direction. I do know that if my reflections are wrong, His are Right, regardless.

What was called heretical teaching and false doctrine in the first church is now acceptable today, and the visible church is either unaware or just does not care.

That's par for the course and the territory. On general basic/matters I don't think christians are all that much divided.

What a surprise it will be when they are asked to leave the wedding banquet.

There is part of all of us that will be "left behind" and "escorted out" Douglas. Jesus said that man will live by every Word of God. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4. That also includes all the bad Words that we don't like to hear, personally, IMHO.

 

[reba]

Admin talking here....We all know we can search ANYTHING on google... type in a couple words and bingo you find what ever... .. Lets say some one is searching for spiritual guidance.. they type in Christian.. Hindo eastern etc.. Do we want this site to be considered something other then say our SOF... ? the pictures used are enticing ,, so they will be removed from the thread..

how do i promote chakra?!, i speak against those devilish spirits, i am not on their side, which is clear enough from what i explained above, i even hate evilness

I agree you speak against this ... i hope you understand why the photos and any links will be removed.. reba...

 

[reba]

He did a little more than that and I was warned about Chakra for saying a lot less.
And while were at it, what denomination do you associate yourself with?

sheesh and i thought you were just being silly with that post i deleted... :neutral