The image of God and the soul of man

[freewill]

“Let us make man in our image, after our likeness” Genesis 1:26.

God is a free thinking mind of reason and love.

Adam was created a free thinking mind of reason and love but he succumbed to the temptation to sin and became a child of sin and he died.


He was not created omniscient,

he was not created omnipotent,

he was not created omnipresent,

and he was not created immortal.

The soul who sins shall die Ezekiel 18:4 (ESV) for God alone is immortal 1 Timothy 6:15-16, and He alone will give immortality to whoever He decides shall have immortality.

But to cause or allow or to hope for, like some still do, a suffering beyond what is necessary for the eternal safety or well-being of creation would be just as offensive to God as it would be to reason and love.

Our freedom now is our freedom to choose reason and love or the lake of fire.

 

[childeye]

“Let us make man in our image, after our likeness” Genesis 1:26.

God is a free thinking mind of reason and love.

This sounds like you're saying that a free thinking mind of reason and love is what it means to be made in God's image. The term free is the problematic term in your statement. The term "free" is both a subjective and relative term. It must be qualified as being free from something so as to have any significant meaning. It is therefore not applicable to any legitimate boundaries of an absolute Godliness since we were made in His Image to begin with. Any reasoning based on this assertion that we are free from God can therefore only end in a contradiction. Hence God is not ever free to sin, because the term sin is always a contrary direction relative to Godliness.

Adam was created a free thinking mind of reason and love but he succumbed to the temptation to sin and became a child of sin and he died.

Respectfully, it is my contention that sin is always the product of vanity, and vanity is the product of a false imagery of god. In other words, Adam and Eve unknowingly accepted a false image of god and were then corrupted. Sophistry is the constructing of fallacious argument . Hidden false premises that are unknowingly accepted by gullible and malleable minds, is what allows deception to be achieved. Eve was gullible and Adam was malleable.

Our freedom now is our freedom to choose reason and love or the lake of fire.

Respectfully, this is framing a scenario where a decision must be inevitably made, as a form of freedom. That is conflating the term choice/option, with the term choice/decision. I submit that reason is only viable when True Love is the source of Truth that is reasoned upon. Sin is not therefore reasonable based upon True Love. I therefore submit that true freedom is knowing that God is always trustworthy.

 

[freewill]

This sounds like you're saying that a free thinking mind of reason and love is what it means to be made in God's image. The term free is the problematic term in your statement. The term "free" is both a subjective and relative term. It must be qualified as being free from something so as to have any significant meaning.

I think I can see what you are saying, however, just as evil was born from the “free” (that which is not enslaved) and loving mind (true love means nothing if it is not free) of the once perfect angel now called Satan who, through pride freely chose to rebel against God's love - (rebellion is still seen by many as the spirit of freedom) and to no longer be governed by God's love, and to corrupt countless others in creation into admiring the wild and exiting spirit of rebellion and to venture into the reckless state of valuing the self above God and truth, so God now also freely chooses what is best to ensure that His creation is freed from this corrupting power of evil forever.

If therefore by the grace of God we know what is good and know what is evil, and we see where they both lead, then our freedom becomes our freedom to choose paradise where reason and love reigns or the lake of fire where evil reigns.

I submit again therefore that to cause or allow or to hope for, like some here still do, a suffering beyond what is necessary for the eternal safety or well-being of creation would be as offensive to God as it would be to reason and love, and our freedom now is our freedom to choose reason and love or the lake of fire!

 

[childeye]

I think I can see what you are saying, however, just as evil was born from the “free” (that which is not enslaved) and loving mind (true love means nothing if it is not free) of the once perfect angel now called Satan who, through pride freely chose to rebel against God's love - (rebellion is still seen by many as the spirit of freedom) and to no longer be governed by God's love, and to corrupt countless others in creation into admiring the wild and exiting spirit of rebellion and to venture into the reckless state of valuing the self above God and truth, so God now also freely chooses what is best to ensure that His creation is freed from this corrupting power of evil forever.

If therefore by the grace of God we know what is good and know what is evil, and we see where they both lead, then our freedom becomes our freedom to choose paradise where reason and love reigns or the lake of fire where evil reigns.

I submit again therefore that to cause or allow or to hope for, like some here still do, a suffering beyond what is necessary for the eternal safety or well-being of creation would be as offensive to God as it would be to reason and love, and our freedom now is our freedom to choose reason and love or the lake of fire!

Thank you for your response. Your post appears to say that evil was born from Satan, who at first had a loving mind, but then became proud and freely chose rebellion. If I am understanding you correctly, I would like to make some points. For one thing, I tend to think of Love as a matter of the heart rather than a product of the mind. For example a hard heart implies a lack of ability to feel compassion. I don't see a hard heart as a choice of the mind, but as a set condition. I feel love, I don't think I will Love or not Love. God is Love and when scripture speaks of the Eternal Spirit, it is talking about Love.

Pride on the other hand, is the product of vanity, which I do believe happens in the mind, and then corrupts the heart, wherein a person bases their self worth through a method of comparison with others so as to desire to be lifted up over others in a race to the top. Such a vanity comes from a false image of god. And this false image was presented in the garden of Eden by Satan to Adam and Eve. As such, I don't see a free will here. I see a will governed by a false image of god. I would point to the words of Christ who came as a servant saying that the greatest is the one who serves the rest. This image of God that is the Christ, is an Image of God that is on the bottom holding all things up, rather than a boss at the top telling everyone else what to do. Therefore scripture says, that he sacrificed himself for sinners and became sin so that we could become the righteousness of God. Vanity then becomes unviable in the mind with such a perfect Image of God to reason upon.

 

[freewill]

Thank you for your response. Your post appears to say that evil was born from Satan, who at first had a loving mind, but then became proud and freely chose rebellion. If I am understanding you correctly, I would like to make some points. For one thing, I tend to think of Love as a matter of the heart rather than a product of the mind.

Could you explain to me then please what you meant when you wrote “the heart”? Clearly it cannot be the pumping station positioned in our ribcage for our blood to circulate; therefore, until we can at least largely agree upon what we mean by “the heart” and where that heart is in man, then I'm afraid I don't really see how any further discussion on this subject would prove worthwhile.

 

[th1b.taylor]

The soul who sins shall die Ezekiel 18:4 (ESV) for God alone is immortal 1 Timothy 6:15-16, and He alone will give immortality to whoever He decides shall have immortality.

freewill,
You went sideways when you were driving up this moutain. The soul, the actual being that live within the body of flesh is immortal. This body will die but this spirit, the real person, shall never cease to be, otherwise, what would be the purpose of the Lake of Fire, why would any of us be sent there with Satan and his bunch?

 

[chessman]

The soul, the actual being that live within the body of flesh is immortal.

If it were true that the soul is immortal, then how come Jesus said that the soul is able to be destroyed in Hell?

Matthew 10:28 (LEB) And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul, but instead be afraid of the one who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.​

 

[th1b.taylor]

I don't know what an LEB is but the American version says:

Mat 10:38 And he that doth not take his cross and follow after me, is not worthy of me.

My King James says the same thing as well as mY NASB. It appears the version you are working from is not true.

 

[childeye]

Could you explain to me then please what you meant when you wrote “the heart”? Clearly it cannot be the pumping station positioned in our ribcage for our blood to circulate; therefore, until we can at least largely agree upon what we mean by “the heart” and where that heart is in man, then I'm afraid I don't really see how any further discussion on this subject would prove worthwhile.

When I say heart, I mean the place where a person feels compassion for others.

 

[chessman]

It appears the version you are working from is not true.

It appears you mistook Matt 10:28 for Matt 10:38. I did not refer to verse 38.

LEB is Logos' translation. Logos is one of (if not the best) Bible study material publishers available. Their translation has the Greek manuscripts as a pop-up so you can check their English translations out, if you like. Which is why I like it. But KJV is great also. So is the NASB.

BTW, King James was not American nor was the KJV an American translation. But here it is in the King's english. They both say the same thing.

Matthew 10:28 (AKJB) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. ​

Matthew 10:28 (LEB) And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul, but instead be afraid of the one who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Since God is able to destroy the soul, why do you claim the soul is immortal?

 

[th1b.taylor]

It appears you mistook Matt 10:28 for Matt 10:38. I did not refer to verse 38.

LEB is Logos' translation. Logos is one of (if not the best) Bible study material publishers available. Their translation has the Greek manuscripts as a pop-up so you can check their English translations out, if you like. Which is why I like it. But KJV is great also. So is the NASB.

BTW, King James was not American nor was the KJV an American translation. But here it is in the King's english. They both say the same thing.[/quote]
I don't know, perhaps, I typed it wrong but there is no need for quippy answers. I was not saying the KJV ws an American version and I certainly I am notv stupid enough to say Americaa has ever had a king, well, before Obama anyway.

Matthew 10:28 (AKJB) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. ​

Since
God is able to destroy the soul, why do you claim the soul is immortal?

Now, here we find that because He is Omnipotent but we find nowhere in scripture that god will ever kill anything He created. Thrtoughout the scriptures we find that God always was and we learn He always will be. We, just as the angels we created are mortal, just like them, He did nt kill Lucifer, He changed ucifer's ame to Satan and created Hell and the Lake of Eternal Fire and condemed Satan and the falle angels to suffer eternally there.

God always has been and He always will be The Omnipotent, Omniscienct God.what you have, erronously injected here is just as foolish as the Atheist's question, "Can God create a rock He cannot pick up?" God is not capricious, niethher is He fooled. Adam was created to live forever and only after he, not Eve, ate of the forbidden fruit of the forbidden fruit.

God, because He forknew every tiny deatil of how this was going to play out, still created Lucifer, every one of the third of the angels that followed him, and He created Adam and Eve, in spite of knowing what would happen.

Now, we know that we are created in the image of God vand I can find nothing, in context, the one thing your use of the scripture you ripped away form it's conntext, and twisted it's meaning to fit your purpose, where God will kill what He created other than He will allow the people at the end of the Millenial Reign. And God is not blowingn them away, the exterminate they themselves.[/QUOTE]

 

[freewill]

When I say heart, I mean the place where a person feels compassion for others.

The heart I am referring to now is the heart of the mind, and this heart can be worldly or pure evil, or by the grace of God it can be made perfect. This heart is the ruling character of the mind, it is where our moral or immoral decisions and judgements are formed. It is the centre of our being and without this heart we could never exist as we do now.

Our hearts are or were, largely governed by the spirit of lies, and if we sincerely seek the truth then God will give us more of His Spirit and He will lead us into an ever increasing knowledge of the truth. If therefore we have the knowledge of what is truly good and what is evil, and we can see where they both lead, then our freedom has become our freedom to choose God's promises of paradise where reason and love reigns or the lake of fire where madness, death and torment reign. Freedom is the freedom to choose.

I submit therefore once again that to cause or allow(or to hope and argue for, like the hypocrites still do) a suffering beyond what is necessary for the eternal safety of creation would be as offensive to God as it would be to reason and love, and our freedom now is our freedom to choose reason and love or the lake of fire. ...And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:17

 

[childeye]

The heart I am referring to now is the heart of the mind, and this heart can be worldly or pure evil, or by the grace of God it can be made perfect. This heart is the ruling character of the mind, it is where our moral or immoral decisions and judgements are formed. It is the centre of our being and without this heart we could never exist as we do now.

Our hearts are or were, largely governed by the spirit of lies, and if we sincerely seek the truth then God will give us more of His Spirit and He will lead us into an ever increasing knowledge of the truth. If therefore we have the knowledge of what is truly good and what is evil, and we can see where they both lead, then our freedom has become our freedom to choose God's promises of paradise where reason and love reigns or the lake of fire where madness, death and torment reign. Freedom is the freedom to choose.

I submit therefore once again that to cause or allow(or to hope and argue for, like the hypocrites still do) a suffering beyond what is necessary for the eternal safety of creation would be as offensive to God as it would be to reason and love, and our freedom now is our freedom to choose reason and love or the lake of fire. ...And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:17

If we have the knowledge of what is truly good and what is evil and we can see where they both lead, then I imagine such a will would be free. Consequently where there is not such knowledge but only carnal vanity, there is not a free will.

 

[freewill]

If we have the knowledge of what is truly good and what is evil and we can see where they both lead, then I imagine such a will would be free.

You have imagined well.

where there is not such knowledge but only carnal vanity, there is not a free will.

Exactly, and to hope for and to keep proclaiming, like many sad people still do, the slanderous idea that the God of love, mercy and reason will forever torture the least offensive of lost souls who were born to die offending the good they never knew, is as vile and offensive to God as it is to love, mercy and reason.

Our freedom then (for those of us who know the truth) is our freedom to choose reason and love or to choose death. ...or torment if that is preferred, the greater the evil the greater the condemnation.

The greater our understanding the greater our accountability.

 

[th1b.taylor]

You have imagined well.



Exactly, and to hope for and to keep proclaiming, like many sad people still do, the slanderous idea that the God of love, mercy and reason will forever torture the least offensive of lost souls who were born to die offending the good they never knew, is as vile and offensive to God as it is to love, mercy and reason.

Our freedom then (for those of us who know the truth) is our freedom to choose reason and love or to choose death. ...or torment if that is preferred, the greater the evil the greater the condemnation.

The greater our understanding the greater our accountability.

I would that that were true ut it is not supported by God's Word, of course I notice you did not use scripture to support your Latter Day New Covenant Christian assertions. (Isaiah 28:15,18) Every man is called of God but not every man answers, in fact few answer and sell out to God.
Because you have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing whip shall pass through, it shall not come to us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

 

[freewill]

I would that that were true ut it is not supported by God's Word, of course I notice you did not use scripture to support your Latter Day New Covenant Christian assertions.

In my very first post here I wrote...

If, like Calvinists and many other evangelical Christians, you happen to believe the souls of all men will live forever, could you explain to me please exactly where in the Bible such a doctrine comes from? The reason I ask is because I am a Christian who has regularly attended an evangelical church these last 19 years… https://0testsite00.wordpress.com/2016/09/01/immortality-vs-mortality/

On that web-page I gave a long list of all the main moral and scriptural reasons why I now believe as I do. If you would care to start at the beginning and carefully read through all those reasons in the same order as I have written them down, then you might begin to see there isn't a single good reason to believe God tells us the souls of men were made immortal and that He will forever torture even the least offensive of lost souls who were born to die offending the good they never knew.

After you have read it all, if there is anything I have written there that you do not agree with or do not understand then please copy and paste here the very first offending sentence or paragraph that you found there and carefully explain your reasons why you could not agree with it. I will then do my best to answer you and explain more. If we are both prepared to continue in this process through to the end then the truth concerning God's love, mercy and justice will I am sure be revealed a little more.

If we ignore and reject reason we remain slaves to bigotry.

 

[th1b.taylor]

In my very first post here I wrote...



On that web-page I gave a long list of all the main moral and scriptural reasons why I now believe as I do. If you would care to start at the beginning and carefully read through all those reasons in the same order as I have written them down, then you might begin to see there isn't a single good reason to believe God tells us the souls of men were made immortal and that He will forever torture even the least offensive of lost souls who were born to die offending the good they never knew.

After you have read it all, if there is anything I have written there that you do not agree with or do not understand then please copy and paste here the very first offending sentence or paragraph that you found there and carefully explain your reasons why you could not agree with it. I will then do my best to answer you and explain more. If we are both prepared to continue in this process through to the end then the truth concerning God's love, mercy and justice will I am sure be revealed a little more.

If we ignore and reject reason we remain slaves to bigotry.

I am dealing with what you post here, I do not care about some anti-Christian page you might have created elsewhere.

Hijacked from; http://apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=1141
The spiritual abode of the wicked is a state of pain, trouble, and sorrow (Psalm 116:3). It is characterized by shame and contempt (Daniel 2:2), a realm of affliction (Jonah 2:2). Hell is a place of outer darkness where there is weeping and the gnashing of teeth (Matthew 23:30), indeed a sphere of eternal fire (Matthew 25:41), where the “worm” (a figure for gnawing anguish) does not die (Mark 9:48). The wicked are described as being beaten with stripes (Luke 12:47-48); they are recipients of God’s wrath and indignation; they experience tribulation and anguish (Romans 2:8-9); and they suffer punishment as a manifestation of the Lord’s vengeance (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9). Hell is a place of utter torment where no rest is ever known (Revelation 14:10-11). While it would not be an expression of responsible exegesis to literalize the figures of speech catalogued above, one never must forget that the symbolism is designed to emphasize the absolute terror of being abandoned by God. Moreover, the figures doubtless do not do justice to the actual reality of this eternal nightmare!

 

[freewill]

I am dealing with what you post here, I do not care about some anti-Christian page you might have created elsewhere.

How do you know it is anti-Christian if you haven't read it and freely discussed it like I asked you to?

If we ignore and reject reason we remain slaves to bigotry.

 

[th1b.taylor]

How do you know it is anti-Christian if you haven't read it and freely discussed it like I asked you to?

If we ignore and reject reason we remain slaves to bigotry.

Now, you want to change your subject and still address my post?here it is again;

I would that that were true ut it is not supported by God's Word, of course I notice you did not use scripture to support your Latter Day New Covenant Christian assertions. (Isaiah 28:15,18) Every man is called of God but not every man answers, in fact few answer and sell out to God.
Because you have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing whip shall pass through, it shall not come to us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

 

[freewill]

Now, you want to change your subject and still address my post?

No, the subject is still the same, it is still all about the soul of man and God's justice, and you have just accused me of supporting an anti-Christian web-page.

https://0testsite00.wordpress.com/2016/09/01/immortality-vs-mortality/

How do you know it is anti-Christian if you haven't read it and freely discussed it like I asked you to?