Gazelle
Member
I agree that predestination and faith are not mutually exclusive. One is an act of God, the other an act of the believer in Christ. However one cannot become a believer without being predestined by God. ;)
There is no insecurity for those who have an understanding. Indeed there is no contrariness either.
Romans 8:29-30: "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover, whom he did predestinate, them he also called; and whom he called, them he also justified; and whom he justified, them he also glorified." So the final purpose of that eternal election whereby God chooses His people is that He may glorify them through Christ to the honor of His own Name.
Scripture itself teaches that election rests solely upon the decree of a sovereign God, and has nothing to do with any action man must first perform.
Two Greek words, contained in the original of the New Testament plainly show this basic idea of sovereign choice in election. EKLEKTOS is an adjective signifying "the chosen". This word is used in such passages as Matt. 24:22,24; Romans 8:33; Col. 3:12. The same word is translated "chosen" in Romans 16:13 and Rev. 17:14 among other places. EKLOGE is a noun, meaning "that which is chosen". It is used in Romans 9:11; 11:5; 7:28; I Thess. 1:4; II Peter 1:10. Election is a very Scriptural doctrine.
Psalm 115:3, "But our God is in the heavens; He does whatever He pleases." Isaiah 46:10, "Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things which have not been done, saying, My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all My good pleasure;" Dan.4:35,"And all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, but He does according to His will in the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of earth; and no one can ward off His hand Or say to Him, What hast Thou done?"
I think it wise to tread softly when trying to determine the Sovereignty of God. Scripture tells us that God saves whom He will, He calls whom He will, He chooses whom He will. Calvinism holds to those Scriptures.
Without the wooing of the Holy Spirit, no one comes to Christ. When one is wooed --convicted-- of a need for salvation then indeed, he is one of the "elect". How can God do this, you ask? Well, He is God. But to give an idea as to why there might be a need for such delineation, may I offer these thoughts? We know that in the days of Noah there was much inbreeding from the nephilim, thus God destroyed all those of that lineage. We do not know if others wanted to but choose not to follow Noah into the Ark other than his relatives (which I might add could be a major victory if you think about how most families function!
).
Scripture tells us as in the days of Noah were... so will the end times be. This could mean that there was and is a defilement of the race (read HUMAN race) by the devil once again, and thus not all are "elected" to be saved. People who seem to be totally human to us, may very well be demons or otherwise non members of the human race. The devil nor any of his demons can sense their wrong doing (yet?) and thus cannot be saved.
As for the idea that Calvinists don't witness, well, all the ones I have met do. Calvinists don't know who God will save and who will not be saved. It is not ours to know. It is our duty to witness to everyone and leave the rest to God. That GOD does know who will be saved and who won't be -- who will choose Christ and who won't-- in no way limits man's ability to choose. So what we have is two sets of unbelievers, those who are never wooed and those who are wooed but choose against Christ.
I'm sure we will fully understand once we fully have "the mind of Christ." :heart
There is no insecurity for those who have an understanding. Indeed there is no contrariness either.
Romans 8:29-30: "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover, whom he did predestinate, them he also called; and whom he called, them he also justified; and whom he justified, them he also glorified." So the final purpose of that eternal election whereby God chooses His people is that He may glorify them through Christ to the honor of His own Name.
Scripture itself teaches that election rests solely upon the decree of a sovereign God, and has nothing to do with any action man must first perform.
Two Greek words, contained in the original of the New Testament plainly show this basic idea of sovereign choice in election. EKLEKTOS is an adjective signifying "the chosen". This word is used in such passages as Matt. 24:22,24; Romans 8:33; Col. 3:12. The same word is translated "chosen" in Romans 16:13 and Rev. 17:14 among other places. EKLOGE is a noun, meaning "that which is chosen". It is used in Romans 9:11; 11:5; 7:28; I Thess. 1:4; II Peter 1:10. Election is a very Scriptural doctrine.
Psalm 115:3, "But our God is in the heavens; He does whatever He pleases." Isaiah 46:10, "Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things which have not been done, saying, My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all My good pleasure;" Dan.4:35,"And all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, but He does according to His will in the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of earth; and no one can ward off His hand Or say to Him, What hast Thou done?"
I think it wise to tread softly when trying to determine the Sovereignty of God. Scripture tells us that God saves whom He will, He calls whom He will, He chooses whom He will. Calvinism holds to those Scriptures.
Without the wooing of the Holy Spirit, no one comes to Christ. When one is wooed --convicted-- of a need for salvation then indeed, he is one of the "elect". How can God do this, you ask? Well, He is God. But to give an idea as to why there might be a need for such delineation, may I offer these thoughts? We know that in the days of Noah there was much inbreeding from the nephilim, thus God destroyed all those of that lineage. We do not know if others wanted to but choose not to follow Noah into the Ark other than his relatives (which I might add could be a major victory if you think about how most families function!
).Scripture tells us as in the days of Noah were... so will the end times be. This could mean that there was and is a defilement of the race (read HUMAN race) by the devil once again, and thus not all are "elected" to be saved. People who seem to be totally human to us, may very well be demons or otherwise non members of the human race. The devil nor any of his demons can sense their wrong doing (yet?) and thus cannot be saved.
As for the idea that Calvinists don't witness, well, all the ones I have met do. Calvinists don't know who God will save and who will not be saved. It is not ours to know. It is our duty to witness to everyone and leave the rest to God. That GOD does know who will be saved and who won't be -- who will choose Christ and who won't-- in no way limits man's ability to choose. So what we have is two sets of unbelievers, those who are never wooed and those who are wooed but choose against Christ.
I'm sure we will fully understand once we fully have "the mind of Christ." :heart
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