The Last Days

[Sam21]

Do you think that is predicated on what Jesus saids here;


25But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Not at all,Jesus said that He would send the angels to gather TOGETHER THE CHOSEN. The time when the wicked are removed from the righteous is at the White Throne judgment.

 

[Scotth1960]

So many people today insist that we are "living in the LAST DAYS." Why? What exactly did the Bible mean when it described the "last days" and when will/did these days occur?

Here are some questions to consider before coming to a conclusion.
1. The "last days" of WHAT was the Bible referring to?
2. Does the Bible use of the word 'world' mean Earth or system of things/establishment?
3. What were the signs that would preceed these "last days?"
4. Did any of the writers of the Bible say that the end/last days would occur during their lifetime?



The Book of Daniel is where a lot of this "last days" discussion strings from. In chapter 9 starting around verse 27, a messenger of God give Daniel a timeframe (70 weeks where each day = a year and the total comes to 490 years) for the end. In Chapter 11 and the beginning of chapter 12, some events that lead up to this end are described.

Based on what was described in Daniel as well as the secular history that coincides with many of the book's prophesies. (look up Anticus epiphanies when you get a chance). One can see that the seventy weeks would end sometime during the 1st century.

What happenned in the 1st century? Jesus happenned, the Sacred Jewish Temple was razed to the ground, and millions were exterminated and brutily slaughtered by the Roman Emperors and in Roman civil wars in a very short period of time.

Now, please recall what God's messenger told Daniel in chp 9:

14 and I’ve come to help you understand what will happen to your people in the last days, because this is a vision of the future.’

Then consider this:

Paul's words in 1 Cor 10:11
11 Now, these things that happened to them are examples, and they were written as a warning to us upon whom the end of the age has arrived.

Joel's prophecy which is quoted as being fulfilled in Acts the 2nd Chapter:

16 What’s happening is the thing that was said through the Prophet Joel, 17 where God said, In the last days I’ll pour some of my Breath on all flesh, And your sons and daughters will then prophesy, Your young men will have visions, And your old men will dream dreams. 18 I will pour out some of My Breath in those days, And My male and female slaves will then prophesy. 19 And from the skies above I’ll send omens and signs, And to the earth below, blood, fire, and smoky mist. 20 Before the great and shining day of the Lord, The sun will be changed into darkness And the moon into blood. 21 And all calling on the Name of the Lord will be saved.

So, based on what the Bible describes, what history supports, and what actually transpired, I understand "THE LAST DAYS" to be the END OF THE COVENANT RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PHYSICAL ISRAEL & GOD culminating with the utter destruction of the temple in a.d. 70.

Friend, While what you say is true, it is also impossible to rule out any age

as also being the last days of human history, because "no man knoweth the day

nor the hour" of the times before Christ's second coming. Christ will come again.

Saying "when" is where some who profess Christianity go astray.

Take care. In Erie PA Scott

 

[Sam21]

After making a study of the Old and New testaments it seems to me that it would all go together really well if Jesus had returned within a hundred years after His death,this incredible span of 2000 years is strange and not really easy to explain. The bible is an incredibly great book and I love to read it, however I am not sure that I would believe that Jesus is really going to return if it were not for God the Spirit because the literal bible seems to indicate that Christ would return within a hundred years of Christ departure.

 

[Elijah674]

After making a study of the Old and New testaments it seems to me that it would all go together really well if Jesus had returned within a hundred years after His death,this incredible span of 2000 years is strange and not really easy to explain. The bible is an incredibly great book and I love to read it, however I am not sure that I would believe that Jesus is really going to return if it were not for God the Spirit because the literal bible seems to indicate that Christ would return within a hundred years of Christ departure.

Have you not read Daniel's Inspiration on the 2300 day prophecy? (of Dan. 8:14) And Numbers 14:34 & Ezekiel 4:6 find that God has Prophesy =ing a day for a year. And even then Christ's High Priest work is not done yet. (Dan. 12:1-2) But very, very, VERY CLOSE! And it will not go past Math. 24:14's verse before Christ comes a second time.

--Elijah

 

[reba]

Not at all,Jesus said that He would send the angels to gather TOGETHER THE CHOSEN. The time when the wicked are removed from the righteous is at the White Throne judgment.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Elijah674]

Well kid'o, one thing is certain, if the verse can be 'GRASPED!?' (1 John 4:6?)
And that is Christ [DOCUMENTING] verse 21 Of Matt. 24!

'For then shall be great tribulation, such as [ not since the beginning of the world to this time, [NO, NOR [EVER] SHALL BE].'

But surely, we see the verses from 22-30 to document who are these preterist's false ones who must come on the scene, who do satan's work right up to verse 30.

And verse 3 ibid. 'END OF THE WORLD'? Some posters would not know about verse 27's LIGHTENING.. SO SHALL ALSO THE COMMING OF THE SON OF MAN BE.' until they get struck down by it! 2 Thess. 2:8

--Elijah

Me again: let me see if God can help you out?? (His WORD!!)
If God was really believed? than you could figure Matt. 24:14 out! First you would 'do well' to find a twice [documentation] from Inspiration where this verse was FIRST documented as a done deal! And then put this chapter together as a repeated process!
If one cannot follow God's quoted Truth of Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 as the Word of God, stated CLEARLY, and in a way that even most of Heb. 5's 'milkfed' ones can even get something from. Then for sure, shy away from Ph.D'ism, the arm of flesh & the Greek, Latin, & Heb., & stick with just one King James translation itself. The BOTTOM line is, is that ALL of these others ways of finding 'some' truth, are the real reasons that have caused the BIGGEST MESS OF DIS/UNITY that the GOSPEL ALONE prophesied of! See Rev. 17:5

And I realize that there are & were some who could not understand Paul's wording of inspiration & that it is scripture that also says that.... 'which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction'. 2 Peter 3:14-17 in part.

OK Forum: Lets start with Eccl. 3:14.
"I know that, WHATSOEVER GOD DOETH, IT SHALL BE FOREVER: NOTHING CAN BE PUT TO IT, NOR ANY THING TAKEN FROM IT: ..." (in part)
Actually it is just about a repeat even in Wording, as seen in Rev.'s closing verses!
The verses are a WARNING about adding to or removing any part of the Word of God! And the BOTTOM line is that ones name would be removed from the Book of Life. Now for the rest of the 14th verse. "... THAT MEN SHOULD FEAR BEFORE HIM."

For one to say that the Eccl. verses do not mean what they say, is doing just that!

Now look at the verse following verse 14. Verse 15 says.. "THAT WHICH HAS BEEN IS NOW; AND THAT WHICH IS TO BE HAS ALREADY BEEN; AND GOD REQUIRETH THAT WHICH IS PAST."GOD'S WORD says that it is so, a REPEAT!!

Take note: If it is not to be, God say that it will not be. Example: 'Sin will not arise a second time' Nah. 1:9. And we all know about the world flood not happening a second time? So, there are so very few times that history does not repeat, and that God does the easy thing for [us] by pointing out the lesser number. (by the way, Rev. is full of O.T. Sanctuary! see Ps. 77:13)

If anyone would BELIEVE THE *GODHEAD'S INSPIRED WORD (ALL OF IT! See 2 Tim. 3:16 & Matt. 4:4) they would find Few reasons for mixed up doctrinal folds.
But the bottom line is that even the Virgin Fold is going after the fate of Virgin Israel of old!! (same history) They are once again Christ/less. See Rev. 3:9 or Rev. 17:5! And the nasty repeat for them is VERIFIED in Eze. 9.

Then try reading the Rev. 12:17 verses very S-L-O-W-L-E-Y! What do they DOCUMENT?? Do you believe them?? Look around! And in Christ's day, who do you think took over the 'DESOLATE' fold that Christ was put out of? And who had Christ EXECUTED? It was He that stated that 'Your house (fold) is left unto you DESOLATE'. Matt. 23:38. And it was the killer satan became their new master! (compare Rev. 3:9)

So, this is what will be the final fate of Spiritual Virgin Israel! (the 666 thing'y is for the world's testing) See 1 Peter 4:17 FOR WHO IS JUDGED FIRST.

Back to Chapter 1:9-10 of Eccl. Lets check to 'see' (if we can) if God made a mistake? (NEVER!!)
We do remember that we were told that 'IT SHALL BE FOR EVER and that NOTHING CAN BE PUT TO IT NOR ANYTHING TAKEN FROM IT.' (chapter 3:14-15)

"THE THING THAT HATH BEEN IS THAT WHICH SHALL BE; AND THAT WHICH IS DONE IS THAT WHICH SHALL BE DONE: AND THERE IS (NOTHING) *NO NEW THING UNDER THE SUN. v.9
IS THERE [*ANY THING] WHERE OF IT MAY BE SAID, SEE, THIS IS NEW? [IT HATH BEEN ALREADY OF OLD TIME, WHICH WAS BEFORE US.]" v.10

Notice that after the GodHead's question, that Their Inspiration came quickly before 'ignorant' man could botch up the question!! But what does one hear today?? Should we do the 'foolish' (Matt. 25) thing and read & study the 'earthly' educated ones reams & reams of commentaries, with hardly any two alike?? (false fold/wise at least)

Lets just add another 'documented' fact here with these two verses.
In Gen. 41:32 the Lord gave Pharaoh a vision 'TWICE'. (remember now, that we see TWICE at least in the Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 that history is to be repeated) Also note that God has 'inspired' this thought ... "And for that the dream was [doubled] unto Pharaoh [twice]; it is [because the thing is established by God], and God will shortly bring it to pass.

So bottom line: If you want to know Truth, find it in the past history for the furture history to be! All the way from the 666 test to where God 'tested' His own in the past just before they were to enter the land of their Canaan. And the crucifixion of Christ a second time? See Heb. 6:6!

So: Bottom/line, if you want to know of these 'last days' time period that you are now in? Just double up most of the prophecy of Matt. 24 using the time that Christ came at the ending of the O.T. for you to know what will transpire at this closing of Matt. 24's Second Times New Testament period. Even to the clouds receiving Him out of ones sight!

And did you miss the Matt. 24:14 verse implication? You MUST FIND THE FIRST DOCUMENTATION for the Gospel going to the whole earth! And it is TWICE STATED, Huh!!

 

[warhorse]

See Mathew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21

 

[TheTimeHasCome]

"""Thus says The Lord your God: The trumpet, I am blowing, is revealed to the wise and humble of heart... Causing the penitent to shudder from within and the rebellious to burn with contempt. It is a trumpet of old, yet remains the trumpet of this day also...
Behold, My servant is soon entering his seventh year, and My Word and this Trumpet soon after. Lo, it is the seventh, and shall be blown for seven without ceasing, even as this seven sounds continuously before the time.
Behold, is it not also that which I have revealed, which remains holy in My eyes?... The fulfillment which has been long, followed by three which will come in rapid succession, the fulfillment thereof short yet everlasting... Even as the seventh, with an eighth yet to come?...



Therefore, thus says The Lord...


I have trumpeted the call to awake,
Yet who has heard My call?...

Who has given heed, and walked according to My calling?...


Wicked and slothful generation! DEAF CHILDREN!
This world is forsaken! I shall blot out the kingdoms of men!
I shall wipe them away, and cast them from My sight... FOREVER!

Never again shall they arise!...

Never again shall they walk proudly,
Shaking their fists toward heaven in their self-proclaimed glory,
Walking after all their perverse lusts, in the pursuit of evil gain...


I AM THE LORD, AND I HAVE SEEN IT!



Thus says The Lord: Therefore, I shall speak and this trumpet shall be finished!... And oh what a cry shall be heard, and oh what a bitter weeping shall break forth! Behold, the gnashing of teeth shall come forth from every corner, with a great noise, as the sound of a plague of devouring locusts drawing near!... I shall speak! Behold, whether they will hear or forbear, I shall be heard!
Lo, this Trumpet before you is but a whisper... For the voice of YaHuWaH shall shake the heavens and the earth, in the Day of His hot displeasure! For none in the earth have known Me, as I truly am... BEHOLD! YOU SHALL ALL KNOW ME! Says The Holy One, The God of Israel, The God of POWER and fierce jealousy, The God who has come forth from His sanctuary, to punish!... For I am The God of judgment!
Behold, The Mighty One of Jacob has spoken in His authority, yet few have given heed, few have bowed down to give Me glory! Therefore, I shall speak with a greater voice, and the days shall be turned into darkness.



I shall turn My face against this generation!...


And all the mountains shall crumble before My presence!...

All giants shall fall down, and be crushed beneath the weight of their fallen riches!



The God of recompense is risen up! The God of glory is come out!... Behold, I am risen up in My vengeance! AND I SHALL SURELY REPAY THE NATIONS! I have seen! I have beheld it!... I HAVE SEEN IT!... NOTHING is hidden before My eyes! Neither are My ears at all dull in hearing! Tears of great sorrow fill My eyes... Flames of fire are shown up behind them!... My face is red in My indignation!
My heart’s inferno rages over that which is before My eyes!... Persecution! Murder! Death fills every corner! Sin overtakes the land, bursting forth as a flood FROM THE HEARTS OF MEN! My people are slain and disemboweled, and paraded down the streets, hung upon the walls as a trophy and spoils of war, IN THE NAME OF THE GOD OF ABRAHAM!... The name, by which I am called among them... Allah, is NOT My name!...
Despicable peoples!... YOU are the walking dead in My eyes!... Shall I not repay?! Shall I not come down and tear My enemies to pieces?! Shall I not destroy their lands, and persecute their people with the sound of My voice, day and night?! Shall I not move swiftly, and grind them to powder beneath the feet of The Holy One of Israel?! Shall I not come down and consume?!... And destroy?!



THUS SAYS THE LORD GOD OF ISRAEL!...


NO MORE shall any god stand before Me!

NO MORE shall any creation, made by the hands of man,
Stand proudly before My face!



Beloved, they are slaying My people in every corner! They are murdering My gifts, tearing them to pieces without remorse!...

What would you have Me do, beloved? What more is there?... I POURED OUT MY LIFE!... They refuse to drink. They have forsaken Me... ME!... The Fountain of Living Water! And for what beloved, for what? Look at what they do! Look how they greedily run, lusting after every contemptible word and deed, filling their bellies! They are a vile people, a deceitfully wicked generation, the likes of which has never been seen!... Yet I love them still...

Even so, I must not withhold My punishment... Judgment must be satisfied, evil must be utterly destroyed from before Me. For if I do not do that which I have purposed in My heart to do, and if that which I have stored up, in the storehouses of My wrath, is not poured out, mankind would be no more... With the garden utterly destroyed.



Therefore, I am come!...

With a great trumpet blast to awaken the nations!...

Behold, this world shall be shaken to its core!...


The Holy One shall shout, with a loud command,
And all light shall be gone from the world, in an instant!...

Behold, the whole of the earth shall be shaken with a mighty earthquake!...

The Wrath of The Lamb revealed!""" Says The LORD
Excerpt from

http://trumpetcallofgodonline.com/index.php5?title=The_Last_Trumpet_Before_The_Time

 

[warhorse]

After making a study of the Old and New testaments it seems to me that it would all go together really well if Jesus had returned within a hundred years after His death,this incredible span of 2000 years is strange and not really easy to explain. The bible is an incredibly great book and I love to read it, however I am not sure that I would believe that Jesus is really going to return if it were not for God the Spirit because the literal bible seems to indicate that Christ would return within a hundred years of Christ departure.

There is great continuity of scripture. The problem is that when we study the bible we don't go into it empty minded and tend to fit scripture into our expectations rather than let our expectations be guided by the scripture. Dispensationalism in particular has led to a huge amount of confusion over the events to come and many of these subgroups can tie there problems to basic dispensational assumptions.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

........ however part of the discourse that Jesus delivered to his disciples was that he would return in the sky and gather them off the earth, that has definitely not happened...the church is still here! So how do you explain the fact that Jesus did not return and gather the believers off the earth in the first century?
I agree with you that the way the bible is written the whole thing,removal of the Temple, return of Christ, and end of this age, should have all happened in the first century...but it did not happen, we are still here,so how can it be explained that we are still here except to believe that Jesus also meant some of those things to happen in our time and just before the return of Christ.

I do not attempt to explain why Jesus did not gather the elect because, as you stated in your second paragraph, the scriptures sure seem to paint the picture that Jesus was intent on doing just that. With that said, one must either conclude that Jesus or those who wrote of him were mistaken, or he in fact did just what he said would be done. Based on what the scriptures teach, I am forced to believe that Jesus came just as he said he would and in doing so, he also gathered his elect at that time to be with him. That means that all of us "left behind" are not a par of that elect group and we do not share in the hope of his appearing the way they did. Our hope, as well as the hope of all men of all times not a part of the elect is in being resurrected to life under the reign of the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

........ however part of the discourse that Jesus delivered to his disciples was that he would return in the sky and gather them off the earth, that has definitely not happened...the church is still here! So how do you explain the fact that Jesus did not return and gather the believers off the earth in the first century?
I agree with you that the way the bible is written the whole thing,removal of the Temple, return of Christ, and end of this age, should have all happened in the first century...but it did not happen, we are still here,so how can it be explained that we are still here except to believe that Jesus also meant some of those things to happen in our time and just before the return of Christ.

I do not attempt to explain why Jesus did not gather the elect because, as you stated in your second paragraph, the scriptures sure seem to paint the picture that Jesus was intent on doing just that. With that said, one must either conclude that Jesus or those who wrote of him were mistaken, or he in fact did just what he said would be done. Based on what the scriptures teach, I am forced to believe that Jesus came just as he said he would and in doing so, he also gathered his elect at that time to be with him. That means that all of us "left behind" are not a par of that elect group and we do not share in the hope of his appearing the way they did. Our hope, as well as the hope of all men of all times not a part of the elect is in being resurrected to life under the reign of the Kingdom of Heaven.

When I wrote this quoted post I was fully convinced and totaly convicted in my heart of hearts that the Bible was divinely inspired. If you've read my more recent posts it becomes obvious that my faith in the scriptures is not what it once was. That being said, as I look at what I wrote and what the scriptures says it still seems as if one must either conclude that Jesus or those who wrote of him were mistaken, or he in fact did just what he said would be done. I previously said that 'Based on what the scriptures teach, I am forced to believe that Jesus came just as he said he would and in doing so, he also gathered his elect at that time to be with him.'
Now, with the blinders of me making it a given that the Bible writings were all true and therefore divinely inspired off, when I look to history and see no solid evidence of Jesus doing what was prophesied, my conclusion changes to that of Jesus or those who wrote of him were mistaken.

 

[Hope of glory]

........ however part of the discourse that Jesus delivered to his disciples was that he would return in the sky and gather them off the earth, that has definitely not happened...the church is still here! So how do you explain the fact that Jesus did not return and gather the believers off the earth in the first century?
I agree with you that the way the bible is written the whole thing,removal of the Temple, return of Christ, and end of this
age, should have all happened in the first century...but it did not happen, we are still here,so how can it be explained that we are still here except to believe that Jesus also meant some of those things to happen in our time and just before the return of Christ.

I do not attempt to explain why Jesus did not gather the elect because, as you stated in your second paragraph, the scriptures sure seem to paint the picture that Jesus was intent on doing just that. With that said, one must either conclude that Jesus or those who wrote of him were mistaken, or he in fact did just what he said would be done. Based on what the scriptures teach, I am forced to believe that Jesus came just as he said he would and in doing so, he also gathered his
elect at that time to be with him. That means that all of us "left behind" are not a par of that elect group and we do not share in the hope of his appearing the way they did. Our hope, as well as the hope of all men of all times not a part of the elect is in being resurrected to life under the reign of the Kingdom of Heaven.

When I wrote this quoted post I was fully convinced and totaly convicted in my heart of hearts that the Bible was divinely inspired. If you've read my more recent posts it becomes obvious that my faith in the scriptures is not what it once was. That being said, as I look at what I wrote and what the scriptures says it still seems as if one must either conclude that Jesus or those who wrote of him were mistaken, or he in fact did just what he said would be done. I previously said
that 'Based on what the scriptures teach, I am forced to believe that Jesus came just as he said he would and in doing so, he also gathered his elect at that time to be with him.'
Now, with the blinders of me making it a given that the Bible writings were all true and therefore divinely inspired off, when I look to history and see no solid evidence of Jesus doing what was prophesied, my conclusion changes to that of
Jesus or those who wrote of him were mistaken.

Good thread "last days"

Yes the last days were the last days of an old age. Math.24 has been completely fulfilled. One must know however that the "gathering together of the elect" did not include a physical resurrection.
There is only one physical resurrection, at the coming of the Lord at the "last day"!

 

[John 8:32]

........ however part of the discourse that Jesus delivered to his disciples was that he would return in the sky and gather them off the earth, that has definitely not happened...the church is still here! So how do you explain the fact that Jesus did not return and gather the believers off the earth in the first century?
I agree with you that the way the bible is written the whole thing,removal of the Temple, return of Christ, and end of this
age, should have all happened in the first century...but it did not happen, we are still here,so how can it be explained that we are still here except to believe that Jesus also meant some of those things to happen in our time and just before the return of Christ.

I do not attempt to explain why Jesus did not gather the elect because, as you stated in your second paragraph, the scriptures sure seem to paint the picture that Jesus was intent on doing just that. With that said, one must either conclude that Jesus or those who wrote of him were mistaken, or he in fact did just what he said would be done. Based on what the scriptures teach, I am forced to believe that Jesus came just as he said he would and in doing so, he also gathered his
elect at that time to be with him. That means that all of us "left behind" are not a par of that elect group and we do not share in the hope of his appearing the way they did. Our hope, as well as the hope of all men of all times not a part of the elect is in being resurrected to life under the reign of the Kingdom of Heaven.

When I wrote this quoted post I was fully convinced and totaly convicted in my heart of hearts that the Bible was divinely inspired. If you've read my more recent posts it becomes obvious that my faith in the scriptures is not what it once was. That being said, as I look at what I wrote and what the scriptures says it still seems as if one must either conclude that Jesus or those who wrote of him were mistaken, or he in fact did just what he said would be done. I previously said
that 'Based on what the scriptures teach, I am forced to believe that Jesus came just as he said he would and in doing so, he also gathered his elect at that time to be with him.'
Now, with the blinders of me making it a given that the Bible writings were all true and therefore divinely inspired off, when I look to history and see no solid evidence of Jesus doing what was prophesied, my conclusion changes to that of
Jesus or those who wrote of him were mistaken.

Good thread "last days"

Yes the last days were the last days of an old age. Math.24 has been completely fulfilled. One must know however that the "gathering together of the elect" did not include a physical resurrection.
There is only one physical resurrection, at the coming of the Lord at the "last day"!

This did not become possible until the early 1950's...

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

that is when the U.S. and the Soviet Union had reached the point of stockpiling enough weapons to destroy life from the planet. The time when it became possible that "there should no flesh be saved" or as Moffat has it "there should no flesh be saved alive".

 

[smaller]

So, based on what the Bible describes, what history supports, and what actually transpired, I understand "THE LAST DAYS" to be the END OF THE COVENANT RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PHYSICAL ISRAEL & GOD culminating with the utter destruction of the temple in a.d. 70.

A view above? Sure.

The only view?

No.

The essence of the 'Last Days' is the promise of the Gospel for an ending of sin, evil and death.

The basis of Christian Hope.

IF we believe in God, then we believe that is thee only legitimate hope in such a God.

s

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

This did not become possible until the early 1950's...

Look at the greater context of Matt 24:15 and following:

15 'So, when you see the disgusting destroyer (which was spoken of through the Prophet Daniel) standing in the Holy Place (let the reader understand); 16 those [who are living] in Judea should flee to the mountains! 17 The man who is standing on his roof shouldn't go down to remove things from his house, 18 and the man who is standing in his field shouldn't return to get his clothes.
19 'Woe to those who are pregnant, and to those nursing babies, in those days… 20 keep praying that your time to run doesn't come in the winter, or on a Sabbath! 21 For, then there will come a difficult time such as hasn't happened from the beginning of the world until now, nor should ever happen again. 22 And if those days hadn't been shortened, no one at all would be saved… but, for the sake of the elected, those days will be shortened.
23 'Then, if anyone should say, {Look!} Here (or there) is the Anointed One… don't believe it. 24 Because, false anointed and false prophets will arise, and they'll perform great omens and signs to mislead (if possible) even the elected!
25 'Now, I've warned you; 26 So, if people should say, Look! He's in the desert… don't go there; or, Look! He's in that barn… don't believe it. 27 For, as lightning flashes 'cross the sky from the east to the west; that's how you'll know the Son of Man is nearby… 28 the vultures will gather at the carcass.
29 'Then, immediately after that difficult time, the sun will grow dark and the moon won't give out its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 The Son of Man's sign will appear in the skies, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in great grief, when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with glory and might. 31 He'll send his messengers [blowing] loud trumpets, who'll collect his elected from the four winds… from one end of the sky to the other.
32 'Now, learn this point from the story of the fig tree:
When its young branches grow tender,
And it starts putting out leaves,
You know that summer is near.
33 Likewise, when you see all of these [things start to happen], recognize that it's near… at the doors! 34 I tell you the truth; This generation will not pass away, until all these things are fulfilled.

and the parallel pasage from Luke 19:

5 Then, as certain ones were discussing the Temple – how fine its stonework was and how nicely it was adorned – 6 he said: 'Concerning these things that you're looking at; The days are coming when there won't be a stone left on top of a stone here that won't be thrown down.'
7 Then they asked him: 'Teacher, when will these things happen… what will be the signs when they're about to happen?'
8 And he replied: 'Watch out, so that you aren't misled, for, many will come in my name saying, I am he, and that the time has arrived; but, you should not follow them!
9 'Then, you'll hear about wars and disorders, but don't let this frighten you; for, all these things must come first. Yet, the end doesn't come right away.'
10 Then he told them: 'Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. 11 There will be many great shakings, and there'll be famines and plagues everywhere, as well as fearful sights in the skies and great signs.
12 'But, before all of these things happen, they'll lay hands upon you and persecute you, and lead you before synagogues and to jails… yes, they'll drag you before kings and governors because of my name. 13 And this will serve as your sign!
14 'Resolve not to make plans for your defense; 15 because, I'll give you a mouth and the wisdom, which no one who lies about you will be able to resist or contradict.
16 'But even your parents and your brothers… yes, your own family and friends will betray you, and they'll even kill some of you; 17 for, everyone will dislike you, because of my name.18 Yet, not a hair on your head will be harmed. 19 And by your endurance, you'll gain your souls!
20 'When you see armies camped around JeruSalem, know that her destruction is near. 21 Then, those in Judea should run to the mountains; those in her midst should all flee; and those in [fields] must not enter her. 22 For, these will be the days of avenging and accomplishing all the things that have been written about.
23 'Woe to those who are pregnant, and those nursing babies in those days; for, there'll be great distress in the land, and [God's] wrath [will come] on these people. 24 They will be cut down with swords, or carried to the nations as captives. And JeruSalem will be trampled by the nations, until the times of the nations have been filled.
25 'There will be signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And on the earth; the nations will be in distress, and confused by the roaring and rolling of the seas.26 Men will be faint from the fear in their hearts… expecting what will come to the home of mankind (gr. oikoumene). Indeed, the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
27 'Then, they'll see the Son of Man coming in a cloud, along with power and great glory. 28 But, as these things start to happen; stand erect and raise your heads high. For, your time of release has drawn near!'
29 Then he gave them this illustration:
'Consider the fig and all other trees;
30 For, when they start putting out buds,
You can see that summer is near.
31 Thus, when you see all these things start to happen;
Know that the Kingdom of God has drawn near.
32 'I tell you the truth; This generation will not pass away until all these things are fulfilled…

The scriptural context does not support the futurist conclusion.

 

[John 8:32]

This did not become possible until the early 1950's...

Look at the greater context of Matt 24:15 and following:

15 'So, when you see the disgusting destroyer (which was spoken of through the Prophet Daniel) standing in the Holy Place (let the reader understand); 16 those [who are living] in Judea should flee to the mountains! 17 The man who is standing on his roof shouldn't go down to remove things from his house, 18 and the man who is standing in his field shouldn't return to get his clothes.
19 'Woe to those who are pregnant, and to those nursing babies, in those days… 20 keep praying that your time to run doesn't come in the winter, or on a Sabbath! 21 For, then there will come a difficult time such as hasn't happened from the beginning of the world until now, nor should ever happen again. 22 And if those days hadn't been shortened, no one at all would be saved… but, for the sake of the elected, those days will be shortened.
23 'Then, if anyone should say, {Look!} Here (or there) is the Anointed One… don't believe it. 24 Because, false anointed and false prophets will arise, and they'll perform great omens and signs to mislead (if possible) even the elected!
25 'Now, I've warned you; 26 So, if people should say, Look! He's in the desert… don't go there; or, Look! He's in that barn… don't believe it. 27 For, as lightning flashes 'cross the sky from the east to the west; that's how you'll know the Son of Man is nearby… 28 the vultures will gather at the carcass.
29 'Then, immediately after that difficult time, the sun will grow dark and the moon won't give out its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 The Son of Man's sign will appear in the skies, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in great grief, when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with glory and might. 31 He'll send his messengers [blowing] loud trumpets, who'll collect his elected from the four winds… from one end of the sky to the other.
32 'Now, learn this point from the story of the fig tree:
When its young branches grow tender,
And it starts putting out leaves,
You know that summer is near.
33 Likewise, when you see all of these [things start to happen], recognize that it's near… at the doors! 34 I tell you the truth; This generation will not pass away, until all these things are fulfilled.

and the parallel pasage from Luke 19:

5 Then, as certain ones were discussing the Temple – how fine its stonework was and how nicely it was adorned – 6 he said: 'Concerning these things that you're looking at; The days are coming when there won't be a stone left on top of a stone here that won't be thrown down.'
7 Then they asked him: 'Teacher, when will these things happen… what will be the signs when they're about to happen?'
8 And he replied: 'Watch out, so that you aren't misled, for, many will come in my name saying, I am he, and that the time has arrived; but, you should not follow them!
9 'Then, you'll hear about wars and disorders, but don't let this frighten you; for, all these things must come first. Yet, the end doesn't come right away.'
10 Then he told them: 'Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. 11 There will be many great shakings, and there'll be famines and plagues everywhere, as well as fearful sights in the skies and great signs.
12 'But, before all of these things happen, they'll lay hands upon you and persecute you, and lead you before synagogues and to jails… yes, they'll drag you before kings and governors because of my name. 13 And this will serve as your sign!
14 'Resolve not to make plans for your defense; 15 because, I'll give you a mouth and the wisdom, which no one who lies about you will be able to resist or contradict.
16 'But even your parents and your brothers… yes, your own family and friends will betray you, and they'll even kill some of you; 17 for, everyone will dislike you, because of my name.18 Yet, not a hair on your head will be harmed. 19 And by your endurance, you'll gain your souls!
20 'When you see armies camped around JeruSalem, know that her destruction is near. 21 Then, those in Judea should run to the mountains; those in her midst should all flee; and those in [fields] must not enter her. 22 For, these will be the days of avenging and accomplishing all the things that have been written about.
23 'Woe to those who are pregnant, and those nursing babies in those days; for, there'll be great distress in the land, and [God's] wrath [will come] on these people. 24 They will be cut down with swords, or carried to the nations as captives. And JeruSalem will be trampled by the nations, until the times of the nations have been filled.
25 'There will be signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And on the earth; the nations will be in distress, and confused by the roaring and rolling of the seas.26 Men will be faint from the fear in their hearts… expecting what will come to the home of mankind (gr. oikoumene). Indeed, the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
27 'Then, they'll see the Son of Man coming in a cloud, along with power and great glory. 28 But, as these things start to happen; stand erect and raise your heads high. For, your time of release has drawn near!'
29 Then he gave them this illustration:
'Consider the fig and all other trees;
30 For, when they start putting out buds,
You can see that summer is near.
31 Thus, when you see all these things start to happen;
Know that the Kingdom of God has drawn near.
32 'I tell you the truth; This generation will not pass away until all these things are fulfilled…

The scriptural context does not support the futurist conclusion.

Hmmm, OK I guess this has happened?

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

They who? They here is all the tribes of the earth.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Looks like you and I both missed out. Dang! I was hoping to make it into the Kingdom. You know with all this going on, one would have thought there would have been at least a sentence or two in the history books. Even newspapers have a type set called "Second Coming", but they have never used it.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

You know with all this going on, one would have thought there would have been at least a sentence or two in the history books. Even newspapers have a type set called "Second Coming", but they have never used it.

Actually both Tacitus and Flavius Josephus wrote about signs in the heavens. http://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/c/chariots-in-clouds.html, http://firstcenturyrapture.blogspot.com/,

Looks like you and I both missed out. Dang! I was hoping to make it into the Kingdom.

At this point, I believe that the scriptures declare that Jesus did in fact take his elect out of the world, and I believe that according to the scriptures that was done in the 1st century.
Now, as far as where that leaves us if in fact Jesus "raptured" his saints in the 1st century at his parousia:
First, I do not see us as being inhabitants of the new earth and skies as many preterists do. We are obviously still living in a world of sin and death (along with many good, wonderful, and positive things that often get taken for granted and overlooked). Death and hell (the grave), have yet to be "thrown in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone (the 2nd death), and ALL THINGS have yet to be "made new" as the Bible says they at some point will be. In addition, many have lived and died since Jesus' advent and they, because of what Jesus accomplished rest in hope of being resurrected on the "last day."

So what I am proposing is:
1. That there is a resurrection, a bodily one at that, that is to be a future occurance.
1a. The 1st resurrection mentioned in Revelation already took place.
2. That Jesus reigns with his (resurrected) saints right now, but this world is not yet a part of the reign of the kingdom of Heaven.
3. This world will one day become a part of the Reign of the Kingdom.
4. Our hope as well as the hope of the ancients is to be resurrected to life under the reign of the Kingdom here on earth where we will live for endless ages with access to trees of life.
5. No one knows when the Kingdom (reign) will come to this Earth.
6. The modern church is NOT the Kingdom or Bride of the Messiah.

 

[Sinthesis]

You know with all this going on, one would have thought there would have been at least a sentence or two in the history books. Even newspapers have a type set called "Second Coming", but they have never used it.

Actually both Tacitus and Flavius Josephus wrote about signs in the heavens. http://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/c/chariots-in-clouds.html, http://firstcenturyrapture.blogspot.com/,

Looks like you and I both missed out. Dang! I was hoping to make it into the Kingdom.

At this point, I believe that the scriptures declare that Jesus did in fact take his elect out of the world, and I believe that according to the scriptures that was done in the 1st century.
Now, as far as where that leaves us if in fact Jesus "raptured" his saints in the 1st century at his parousia:
First, I do not see us as being inhabitants of the new earth and skies as many preterists do. We are obviously still living in a world of sin and death (along with many good, wonderful, and positive things that often get taken for granted and overlooked). Death and hell (the grave), have yet to be "thrown in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone (the 2nd death), and ALL THINGS have yet to be "made new" as the Bible says they at some point will be. In addition, many have lived and died since Jesus' advent and they, because of what Jesus accomplished rest in hope of being resurrected on the "last day."

So what I am proposing is:
1. That there is a resurrection, a bodily one at that, that is to be a future occurance.
2. That Jesus reigns with his saints right now, but this world is not yet a part of the reign of the kingdom of Heaven.
3. This world will one day become a part of the Reign of the Kingdom.
4. Our hope as well as the hope of the ancients is to be resurrected to life under the reign of the Kingdom here on earth where we will live for endless ages with access to trees of life.
5. No one knows when the Kingdom will come to this Earth.

1. Agreed
2. Anywhere Christians are in the world, the Reign of Christ extends. The world is not yet fully Christian but the Church is progressing.
3. Agreed
4. Pass:D
5. The Kingdom is here, now if you are a Christian. When will the earth end? Nobody knows, but nobody knows when they will die either. Until then we still have God's work to do. Everything and everybody has their own last day.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

The Kingdom is here, now if you are a Christian. When will the earth end? Nobody knows, but nobody knows when they will die either. Until then we still have God's work to do. Everything and everybody has their own last day.

As for the church(es) that sprung with shortly after the prophetic events of the 1st century, I believe they are not what they claim to be (Jesus' Bride, Jesus' Ekklesia of Matt 16:18, a continuation of what was established at Pentecost, THE KINGDOM, etc.). Does that mean that churches are bad? The answer to that question will vary based on what the institutions do and claim. If they claim that they are the necessary gateway to the Christ and life, then they are liars or at best blind leaders, but if they simply provide a way for believers to organize and come together to do good in the world, build each other up, and encourage one another in ways of righteousness, then the MANMADE organization that we know as church would then be doing good.

 

[Sinthesis]

The Kingdom is here, now if you are a Christian. When will the earth end? Nobody knows, but nobody knows when they will die either. Until then we still have God's work to do. Everything and everybody has their own last day.

As for the church(es) that sprung with shortly after the prophetic events of the 1st century, I believe they are not what they claim to be (Jesus' Bride, Jesus' Ekklesia of Matt 16:18, a continuation of what was established at Pentecost, THE KINGDOM, etc.). Does that mean that churches are bad? The answer to that question will vary based on what the institutions do and claim. If they claim that they are the necessary gateway to the Christ and life, then they are liars or at best blind leaders, but if they simply provide a way for believers to organize and come together to do good in the world, build each other up, and encourage one another in ways of righteousness, then the MANMADE organization that we know as church would then be doing good.

I basically agree, but I don't consider the Church as MANMADE. Rather, I regard the Church as a product of the Holy Spirit composed of believers and believers-to-be, unified within denominations to do God's work. Are there impostors who claim membership? Sure, but they are not really part of the Church. Are there man made counterfeit organizations? Sure, but not forever.