Bible Study The Law of God - The Law of Moses - The Law

[Nathan]

b) What is the significance of these two words, and their relationship to being either 'in' or 'in the side' of the ark?
c) What also is the bearing this knowledge has on the outcome of the study in hand?

These are good questions. I do not personally believe that they both were exactly the same. I believe that the testimony placed inside the ark just contained the ten words. I believe that the one placed on the side of the ark contained all the ordinances and such that were given. The one inside was just a testament of who God is and what He requires. It is the principal of how we can distinguish Him apart from all the other "gods" that are out there. The one placed on the side, with the ordinances and regulations is how we can 'relate' to God. This, I believe, is the direct representation of who Christ is. Of course, the one on the side would have also contained the ten words.

The bearing, to reiterate, is that we can see and test false spirits against the law of God. They will not be contrary to it. Even ourselves, when held up, should be fulfilling the law as we are in Christ. Christ fulfilled the law, so if we are in Him, we will be too. I look at them as the test-imonie, and witness, to the one True God. If you find "love" apart from them, that does not point back too them, then its not true love.

My whole premise, which seems to get smeared around a lot in the manner in which I have not stated it, is that we can know the truth of Godly love simply by examining how it stands up against the law. My premise is NOT that we are under the law, and through that obedience to it, then we love. That is not it at all. We love, and through that obedience, we find the law being fulfilled in our 'wake'.

Now, the over riding thought for all of this is because we are to a day and age in our society that we actually see Christians asking if its ok to lie, cheat, steal, worship false gods, etc. Obviously they "claim" these things are done in love. If they were, then they would not speak against the testimony of God. If a person is in Christ then they are NOT going to lie. Christ never lied.

We have this idea that obedience to "love" will cover things that are contrary to the law. Passage upon passage is taken out of context and the whole of the Bible is being broken down bit by bit. We are starting to 'wonder' through this pilgrimage on earth all the while stating "love, love, love". There will come a time when this "love" of ours will be tested by God. He does this to all He truly loves. And when this moment of testing comes, will we be able to identify what true love is? We should, there is a written record of it.

Just the same when Jesus blinded the eyes of the guys on the road, then proceeded to show them the Scriptures, and when they still would not believe He stated:

Luk 24:25 And he said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!

He scolded them for their unbelieving, even though He had blinded them to the fact of who He was. Why? Because He wanted to show them that the Scriptures, the OT, showed everything He was. There is documented, physical proof, of who God is and what His love looks like. My plea is that we do not be like the guys, and see who Christ is and what true love looks like. Not this mushy, mushy worldly love junk that many are following straight into the pits of hell. And NO I am not talking specifically about anyone. Just them who follow it.

 

[Nathan]

You don't have to be rude Nathan. And I can say the same of you, seems how you ARE preaching the law and not Christ.

I did not see your post.

I was not trying to be rude. I was simply stating a fact that if you will take the time, and not get in a hurry to defend yourself, you will see plainly that I am trying my best to be diligent to do the same.

I am NOT "preaching" the law over Christ. That is a false statement, that has no proof. That, Rockie, is being rude. There is no fact to back it up. I have constantly reiterated the point that Christ is our aim, the law proves that we are aiming at Christ and not another gospel.

What I said can be backed up because I posted my reply a while before you reiterated your question. It was there already if one would only take the time to read what I write. This also may help to prove that I am not preaching the law over Christ. Take the time Rockie, its called patience, and its a fruit of love.

 

[Jake]

I was not trying to be rude. I was simply stating a fact that if you will take the time, and not get in a hurry to defend yourself, you will see plainly that I am trying my best to be diligent to do the same.

I am NOT "preaching" the law over Christ. That is a false statement, that has no proof. That, Rockie, is being rude. There is no fact to back it up. I have constantly reiterated the point that Christ is our aim, the law proves that we are aiming at Christ and not another gospel.

What I said can be backed up because I posted my reply a while before you reiterated your question. It was there already if one would only take the time to read what I write. This also may help to prove that I am not preaching the law over Christ. Take the time Rockie, its called patience, and its a fruit of love.

you said in the thread The Called:

This is why;

This is why I preach the law.
.

Now you are saying you don't preach the law, which is it?

 

[Nathan]

In light of this explanation concerning James, we are guilty of breaking ALL the law if we break one, so please explain what this means then, again in light of James:


Romans 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.

Please tell me how there is no condemnation for those in Christ YET if you are keeping the law of the OT, then you are guilty even if you break one law?

Jam 2:8-10 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well. But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.

If you do not love, then you are convicted the LAW as transgressors. Because if you fail in one point, then you are guilty of them ALL. Why?

Jam 2:11 For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

And He who said these things, also gave us the Law of Love. If you do love, but then murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. And if you do not murder, and show partiality which is not love, then you are guilty of transgressing the whole law.

Jam 2:12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty.

The law of liberty says I GET to live under the headship of Christ and not according to the ordinances of the written law of Moses. Act like your under, live like your under, the law of that liberty of freedom from sin. For Christ came to set us free.

Rom 8:1-4 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

The righteous requirement of the law is ONLY going to be fulfilled when we are; 1). In Christ, and 2). Walking according to the Spirit and not the flesh.

Now, when we sin, break any of His commandments, there is great news!

1Jo 2:1-6 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.

Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

 

[Jake]

These are good questions. I do not personally believe that they both were exactly the same. I believe that the testimony placed inside the ark just contained the ten words. I believe that the one placed on the side of the ark contained all the ordinances and such that were given. The one inside was just a testament of who God is and what He requires. It is the principal of how we can distinguish Him apart from all the other "gods" that are out there. The one placed on the side, with the ordinances and regulations is how we can 'relate' to God. This, I believe, is the direct representation of who Christ is. Of course, the one on the side would have also contained the ten words.

.

They are the same law and I gave you proof at the beginning of this thread.

God does not separate the laws, ordiances, statutes and the 10, so why should we?
It seems some people rely on "keeping the law", instead of letting Jesus save them.

The 10 commandments were given in the Exodus, they are also included in Deuteronomy which is the “book of the lawâ€, when the Bible speaks of the law, it does not separate the 10 commandments, the other 600 laws, or the ordinances, statutes, they are all one complete unit. You can not find any reference of the 10 commandments separate from the rest of the law and ordinances. They are a subset of the law. You can not have the 600 laws without the 10 and you can not have the 10 without the 600.


2 Kings 23:3 And the king stood by the pillar, and
made a covenant before Jehovah, to walk after Jehovah, and to keep his
commandments, and his testimonies, and his statutes, with all his heart,
and all his soul, to confirm the words of this covenant that were written in
this book: and all the people stood to the covenant.



What did they do when they didn’t have the Ark, which was where the 10 commandments were? They wrote them in a book along with all the
other laws and ordinances.



Deut 17:18-20 And it shall be, when he sitteth
upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a
book, out of that which is before the priests the Levites: and it shall be with
him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life; that he may learn to
fear Jehovah his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to
do them; that his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn
not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end
that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he and his children, in the midst
of Israel.


Sorry about the different fonts, I tried cutting and pasting from Word and it didn't work very well.

peace -

 

[Jake]

Jam 2:8-10 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well. But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.

If you do not love, then you are convicted the LAW as transgressors. Because if you fail in one point, then you are guilty of them ALL. Why?

Jam 2:11 For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

And He who said these things, also gave us the Law of Love. If you do love, but then murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. And if you do not murder, and show partiality which is not love, then you are guilty of transgressing the whole law.

Jam 2:12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty.

The law of liberty says I GET to live under the headship of Christ and not according to the ordinances of the written law of Moses. Act like your under, live like your under, the law of that liberty of freedom from sin. For Christ came to set us free.

Rom 8:1-4 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

The righteous requirement of the law is ONLY going to be fulfilled when we are; 1). In Christ, and 2). Walking according to the Spirit and not the flesh.

Now, when we sin, break any of His commandments, there is great news!

1Jo 2:1-6 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.

Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

Yes, I agree. His commandment is to Love God with all your heart, mind and soul and Love your neighbor as yourself.
With this commandment all else will fall into place, these are Christ's commandments. These were given to us under the New Covenant.

 

[Who Says]

This is what you are not "seeing" Nathan, Christ LIVES IN US, why would we want to carry Jesus around in our bodies and sin? If we are conforming to His image, then what are we becoming?

We, who are in Christ, do His Will, is His will not for us to kill someone.

This is why it is so important to see the written Word of God for what it really is, when we are IN the Word, reading, studying, praying, then we can walk the Word. It all ties into the Bible study that C did on the Word, we are conforming to His image and the old law could not get us there.

Please tell me what part of the above you do not believe or understand or agree with?

Rockie, this is not to embarrass you but to prepare the soil for you to receive something. Never ever should we feel ashamed for not knowing something. None of us know everything. All of us at one point in time did not know what we know now.

Let me explain this verse:
Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

(1) "But ye are not [living] in the flesh, but [living] in the Spirit"

(2) "if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you" ("You" here means the body of Christ, his church. It is a plural pronoun in the Greek text. Same with "ye" in the first part.)

(3) "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ [that makes his individual body holy and usable in the body of Christ], he is none of his."

God's spirit is born from from God's personality. The spirit of Christ is born from Christ's personality. And the spirit of a man is born of a man's personality. God's spirit and Christ's spirit are in complete harmony. Their personalities are in complete harmony. Yet either could will to do differently than they do insofar as they have the ability to make such a choice. Of course we know they will never do that because their personality is to love uprightness (righteousness) and to love all who love uprightness as they.

Such a spirit born of one's personality has power to influence. The root meaning of spirit is "to breath". It is the breath of who they are going forth from out of them and giving men something to compare the spirit of their own personality to. That is why Paul said things like, Philemon 1:25 "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen."

So when it says we put on Christ it means we cloth ourselves with the spirit of his personality that loves righteousness and hate lawlessness. And that makes it possible for the most holy God and Father of us all to have dealings with us as members of Christ's body.

 

[Jake]

Rockie, this is not to embarrass you but to prepare the soil for you to receive something. Never ever should we feel ashamed for not knowing something. None of us know everything. All of us at one point in time did not know what we know now.

Let me explain this verse:
Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

(1) "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit"

(2) "if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you"

(3) "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

There are two spirits, one is the Holy Spirit but we also have the Spirit of Christ.

 

[Elijah674]

Contributors so far:
Nathan, Elijah674, Rockie, Eventide, Theofilus,
Cyberjosh, 'Who Says', Reba, Sam21, Joe67,
Whitney, Alabaster, Ada, Farouk, Savedgeezer.




Hello there Nathan,

The word used of the copy of the law, engraved on tablets of stone, and laid in the ark, is testimony,
translated from the Hebrew word 'eduth', also translated 'witness'. (See Exodus 25:16 and 40:20).

'And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony (Heb. Eduth)
which I shall give thee.' (25:16)

'And he (Moses) took and put the testimony into the ark,
and set the staves on the ark,
and put the mercy seat above upon the ark:' (40:20)

(Deut.10:1-5)
'At that time the LORD said unto me,
"Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first,
and come up unto me into the mount,
and make thee an ark of wood.
And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest,
and thou shalt put them in the ark."
And I made an ark of shittim wood,
and hewed two tables of stone like unto the first,
and went up into the mount,
having the two tables in mine hand.
And he wrote on the tables,
according to the first writing,
the ten commandments,
which the LORD spake unto you in the mount
out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly:
and the LORD gave them unto me.
And I turned myself and came down from the mount,
and put the tables in the ark which I had made;
and there they be, as the LORD commanded me.

--------------------------

(Deut. 31:9) 'And Moses wrote this law (Torah),
and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi,
which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD,
and unto all the elders of Israel.'

(Deut. 31:26) 'Take this book of the law (Torah),
and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God,
that it may be there for a witness against thee.'

(The ark itself is called the 'ark of the testimony' as well as 'the ark of the covenant')

* The two Hebrew words used are 'eduth' (transl. 'testimony' and 'witness') used for that going in the ark,
and 'Torah' translated 'law', used for that put in the side of the ark.


* Is this what you initially wanted Nathan?
a) Why did you want to begin the study in this way?
b) What is the significance of these two words, and their relationship to being either 'in' or 'in the side' of the ark?
c) What also is the bearing this knowledge has on the outcome of the study in hand?

In Christ
Wings

Hi, great Inspired material [posted] there in one place! Thanks! ('i' will use it!) 5 posts, huh? don't run off but tell us which ones were written in a Book of the Law which Gal. 3:19 says were added ones until Christ came & died?? Did these laws have names? and what is most important to me is WHO ONLY WROTE the Eternal Covenant that was in the Ark, (and is there anything else that God Himself wrote?) and then rewrote them in the Born Again heart, which is the mind? And the New Birth that Christ said was required, that was just for the Jew, huh?

 

[Jake]

Rockie, this is not to embarrass you but to prepare the soil for you to receive something. Never ever should we feel ashamed for not knowing something. None of us know everything. All of us at one point in time did not know what we know now.

And by these very words, is that not what will probably happen, I mean it puts everyone on the alert, that anything I have previously said is wrong and that I do not know what I am talking about? And you have put up a red flag to state this? And yet, what I have said regarding the law is the Truth and others continue preaching the law even though they deny doing so, and we are not to preach the law but Christ, yet this entire thread's motivation is to do just that - preach the law?

 

[Who Says]

And by these very words, is that not what will probably happen, I mean it puts everyone on the alert, that anything I have previously said is wrong and that I do not know what I am talking about? And you have put up a red flag to state this? And yet, what I have said regarding the law is the Truth and others continue preaching the law even though they deny doing so, and we are not to preach the law but Christ, yet this entire thread's motivation is to do just that - preach the law?

By those very words is the reason it should not.

Though all men be found liars (even ourselves) let God be found true. That is humility in action.

Are you posing yourself to take offence? Why would you do that?

And this is a thing we all must guard against. It is not personal to you.

 

[Jake]

By those very words is the reason it should not.

Though all men be found liars (even ourselves) let God be found true. That is humility in action.

Are you posing yourself to take offence? Why would you do that?

And this is a thing we all must guard against. It is not personal to you.

Yes, this is a problem I do have, I take offense. I am aware of it and I do take it personally when someone tells me I am going to be embarrassed.

I am not surprised you know what that verse means, that we have two spirits, people do not readily see it. Although, I know what that verse means, I am not clear on the point of why you brought it up.

Unless you are saying that I have neither the Holy Spirit or the Spirit of Christ because of my personality "spirit" in this thread. Is this what you are saying?

And yes, I am taking it personally seems how you said "Rockie, this is not meant to embarrass you". That would be me, so the lesson has to do with something I am doing or teaching that you are not agreeing with.

 

[Who Says]

There are two spirits, one is the Holy Spirit but we also have the Spirit of Christ.

That is right and it comforts me that you see that.

Many do not.

Christ's spirit in his body of believers is waht makes that body holy that the Father's spirit will dwell in it amidst the body members.

Unless people pay close attention to the plural pronouns that are used they generally miss this more precise understanding of what was said.

 

[Jake]

That is right and it comforts me that you see that.

Many do not.

Christ's spirit in his body of believers is waht makes that body holy that the Father's spirit will dwell in it amidst the body members.

Unless people pay close attention to the plural pronouns that are used they generally miss this more precise understanding of what was said.

Denominations teach that we only have the Holy Spirit

 

[Who Says]

Yes, this is a problem I do have, I take offense. I am aware of it and I do take it personally when someone tells me I am going to be embarrassed.

I am not surprised you know what that verse means, that we have two spirits, people do not readily see it. Although, I know what that verse means, I am not clear on the point of why you brought it up.

Unless you are saying that I have neither the Holy Spirit or the Spirit of Christ because of my personality "spirit" in this thread. Is this what you are saying?

"I do take it personally when someone tells me I am going to be embarrassed"?

Oh Rockie! No one told you that you were going to be. That is a choice you make. I asked you not to make that choice and lovingly assured you that it was not my intentions to embarrass you. I even told you we all share the problem alike, including myself.

What do you want? If one's emotions are that fragile then it is like having to walk on thin glass with them. Matter not how hard we try they are prone to being shattered.

 

[Jake]

"I do take it personally when someone tells me I am going to be embarrassed"?

Oh Rockie! No one told you that you were going to be. That is a choice you make. I asked you not to make that choice and lovingly assured you that it was not my intentions to embarrass you. I even told you we all share the problem alike, including myself.

What do you want? If one's emotions are that fragile then it is like having to walk on thin glass with them. Matter not how hard we try they are prone to being shattered.

I know, Who Says, I already admitted this is a problem I have, but it's more anger than anything and God is working on it. I can not all of a sudden be perfect.

 

[Who Says]

Denominations teach that we only have the Holy Spirit

Yes, I am sadly aware of that.

That is why I speak of these things.

I know that for them to advance to deeper understanding they have to somehow helped to see the mechanics which cause their misunderstanding.

They must begin to read in awareness of the Greek Singular and Plural Pronouns and get a feel for how these affect what was said.

They also need to become more aware of the use of Greek prepositions.

But they don't really need to get all involved in the more complex translative details as those things were handled fairly well already by the translators.

A measure of understanding concerning direct objects is also helpful.

Those three things are really not difficult.

 

[Jake]

Yes, I am sadly aware of that.

That is why I speak of these things.

I know that for them to advance to deeper understanding they have to somehow helped to see the mechanics which cause their misunderstanding.

They must begin to read in awareness of the Greek Singular and Plural Pronouns and get a feel for how these affect what was said.

They also need to become more aware of the use of Greek prepositions.

But they don't really need to get all involved in the more complex translative details as those things were handled fairly well already by the translators.

Correct.

Was there another reason why you brought up the scripture in Romans?

 

[Jake]

Yes, I am sadly aware of that.

That is why I speak of these things.

I know that for them to advance to deeper understanding they have to somehow helped to see the mechanics which cause their misunderstanding.

They must begin to read in awareness of the Greek Singular and Plural Pronouns and get a feel for how these affect what was said.

They also need to become more aware of the use of Greek prepositions.

But they don't really need to get all involved in the more complex translative details as those things were handled fairly well already by the translators.

A measure of understanding concerning direct objects is also helpful.

Those three things are really not difficult.

Do you think Strong's Concordance is good enough? This is the only thing I use, is there something else that is better available?

 

[Who Says]

I know, Who Says, I already admitted this is a problem I have, but it's more anger than anything and God is working on it. I can not all of a sudden be perfect.

I sympathise with that.

You should have known me at your age.

You cannot top me on that flaw.

I was recalling to myself last night things way back through the years about myself and it ain't a pretty picture!!!