Bible Study The Law of God - The Law of Moses - The Law

[Elijah674]

I wasn't talking about hating people, but rather every false way... like this from Psalm 119..

Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.

OK, it seems that about whatever one posts around today, most take it personal, huh? OH, and I was only replying to that post!;) And to hate every false way was not to any person per/say was it?

And to know what is a false way, we must find it in some law of God, right?

 

[Jake]

I truthfully hold no ill feelings for you Rockie. I just wanted to show you that it is not love that is the motivating reason your backing out, its because you think its pointless. Love does not insist on its own way, and its patient.

I never said I was backing out because of love.

I am backing out because 1). frustration 2). God is teaching me other things at the moment that have nothing to do with the 10 commandments 3). this thread is a distraction to my learning of other Bibical truths.

peace-

 

[Who Says]

I have lost track of what was going on here as I had doctor's appointments yesterday to deal with sin's war on my physical life.

I was given just more bad news as seems par for the course so I have not yet pondered any of the postings from yesterday after about 9AM but for #327 to Rockie and I them went to bed.

Please don't run away before I know what is going on.

PS/ I suppose I ought to not let you hang as to what the bad news was. I have Meniere's disease and it completely took my hearing in my left ear but for Tinnitus in it. It plagues me with attacks of vertigo and frequent dizziness and the nuisances of Tinnitus ringing in my head louder at certain times than others.

I was originally told that there was about a 30% chance it would eventually spread to the other side. It has and without my realizing it I have lost a significant amount of my hearing now also in my right ear. I will soon be completely deaf. I only hope the annoying Tinnitus will also go away at that point. But I doubt that as I can yet hear it loudly in the left ear even though it is dead as far as being able to hear sounds around me. And now I have begun Tinnitus also in my right ear.

That is all it is.

 

[Nathan]

The law does not "give us" love, but it shows us how to love. Left to interpret things on their own, people will justify pretty much everything by calling it love. Homosexuality, adultery and fornication are all justified because of "love". I remember a cult back in the 70's called the Children of God. They used sex to show people God's love. They called their young women "happy hookers for Jesus" and "God's prostitutes". People even justify murder by calling it love. Mothers have murdered their children (both born and unborn) because of their love for them. Cult members have killed their children out of love.

The law defines what true love really is. If you do away with the law, you do away with love.

Seems simple enough to me. Now we know that we can more or less see our love of other people through our actions to them. Which can all be "checked" against the law. But what about when it comes to the first and greatest command? Love of God? How do we know we are loving the one true God and not another?

 

[Nathan]

And to know what is a false way, we must find it in some law of God, right?

They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved.

15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,
18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.

How do we know what sin is now? Can a person just say, "I have faith, it's not sin"? Or is there a standard that we can test ourselves up against to see if we are IN the faith, like Paul mentioned?

 

[Elijah674]

Nate: The thread is one of the best read ones! Many seem to still be very interested? And the subject also has the above Laws that have never even been broached! And 'Resting' for a Sabbath?? Christ stated that Lazareth sleepeth & then that he was dead, and he had not even had his final judgement yet! Eccl. 12:13-14. But some have it all figured out at the Heb. 5's stage?

Anyway, here is another about 'rest'. Subject: --Sabbath Rest--
(By Elijah here)

Resting [IN CHRIST] in DISOBEDIENCE? God says get behind me satan!!
In heaven even we see that we will have our same Special Sabbath Day for Worship! Isa. 66

[22] For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
[23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

And the other six working days? The Godhead leaves NO DOUBT there as well!
In Isa. 65 we see:
[21] And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
[22] They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

[23] They shall not labor in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
[24] And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
[25] The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

It does not take any special Heb. 6 knowledge to understand God's Inspiration in these two chapters! His City will be for the 7th Day Sabbath Worship Service of Him! And the other six days are for us living WORKING saints in our own country homes!

What one 'thinks' today?? Will not change this Truth! And Christ's Word reads work, huh? But this scriptural material is another subject that we as individuals had best get right!

And about the Heb. 4 'Rest'? Surely we can know enough to forget mans chapter number 4, & must include ALL OF THE REST OF THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL! Rev. 14:6 is even in what some call the New Covenant side of the cross. But chapter 3 of Heb. with Heb. 4 will do for now. ;)

Verse 14 states: "For we are made partakers of Christ, [IF WE HOLD THE BEGINNING OF OUR CONFIDENCE STEADFAST UNTO THE END;] Of course all are not made partakers of the Holy Ghost! Only those that are seen in Acts 5:32. These are seen in Total submission to the complete Book of His 'Inspiration'! From Gen. on to the Rev. Ending! And we see IF! IF! IF! (got that??) and 'STEADFAST UNTO THE END'!!

And REMEMBER the Word in the start of the Forth 7th Day Sabbath Command! And the REQUIRED [[[REST!]]] + even the livestock.

And verse 6?
"But Christ as a Son over His own house; whose house are we, IF WE HOLD FAST THE CONFIDENCE AND REJOICING OF HOPE FIRM UNTO THE END."

And verse 10? "Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; ..."
(But how did they err in their HEART?)

See 2 Cor. 3:3's EPISTLE or letter of Christ was not (IS NOT) in there heart. And how do we know this?? Because they were TESTED by a test, for forty years on only one test to see if they were obedient to all of the ETERNAL EVERLASTING COVENANT!

Forum: You go read it. Exodus 16.
You can be correct in ones Love definition of REST 'IN' CHRIST only if it brings fruit of Required Obedience from Eternity on, or else one finds NO REST OR PEACE IN CHRIST!! For forty years Christ TESTED these ones as well as we, to see [IF] we HAVE THE LOVE THAT HE REQUIRES of us to be safe to save! (Nah. 1:9) Or if we are as they, just give lip service? Their actions spoke for their Love relationship. See James 2:8-12 and (try Rev. 3:16-17's SPEWED OUT SICKENING TO CHRIST] ONES! )

But notice forum, that in verse 4 of Exodus 16 we see God telling us that He would "PROVE THEM, WHETHER THEY WILL WALK IN MY LAW OR NO."
He says MY LAW! (EVERLASTING COVENANT Heb. 13:20)
It is then that for the FORTY YEARS THEY WERE TESTED ON JUST THE ONE SABBATH COMMANDMENT to see [IF] they were IN CHRIST'S [REST]!

Notice verse 26-30. They (and who?) were TESTED on only this ONE COMMANDMENT to see if they were {IN} Christ! See Rom. 8:1. And by breaking this [one commandment] God says: "And it came to pass, that THERE WENT SOME of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.

And the [LORD SAID UNTO MOSES, HOW LONG **REFUSE YE TO KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS AND MY LAWS?]" And surely, the ONLY MOTIVE for the [correct] answer to this question, Christ told was [IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS]".
BEING [IN] CHRIST IS THE ONLY WAY TO HAVE TOTAL REST! And OBEDIENCE!! See Acts 5:32

By the way: I was asked this question by one on a board. Does not keeping the Seventh Day Sabbath mean that one does not love the Lord? Now, if the question was ask [me personally], I would be honest and answer yes. Or I would be a liar on both counts!
That means.. as not to be confused, that this is MY PERSONAL CONVICTION for ME!! There are other verses such as in John 10:16 or Rev. 18:4. Before Christ comes again, this same test will again separate the true from the false! Eccl. 3:15 ='s 666! But most have already bound their selves in Rev. 17:1-5 church bundles for the fire.

Yet, the Lord must tire of this rebelliousness stuff in time, for look at what became of these Exodus 16 Eternal Covenant ones! And Cain! And Israel of old! And Laodicea? And the ones who 'believed' that they were as their claim, claimed! Rev. 3:9!! Sure Lord I love you.. kind of!! (Gen. 4:7!)


Yet, it is interesting that verse 35 tells of this being the T-E-S-T just before entering their Land of Canaan. We too are looking to enter our heavenly land of Canaan! And we too will have a 666 TESTING to see ... [IF] YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS? And the testing will be on just this one Sabbath Commandment to see if we are safe to save throughout all of eternity! Nahum . 1:9
How so you ask? Well, Lets see if you really BELIEVE the Master's Words in Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15?
_________________
-A Voice Crying In The Wilderness Prepare ye The Way Of The Lord-

 

[Nathan]

I think what people bypass a lot of time is the fact that even "love" is a commandment. Its a law. What ever other things you want to call it. Simply put, its something that requires obedience.

So to say that "law" does not given out of love is blinding fallacy. The point Paul makes through his letters is that we cannot receive righteousness through the keeping of the law. In that regards, when we try to do that, we go astray and put ourselves under bondage to sin. Because we inhabit flesh and that flesh cannot and will not surrender to God's law. So we find this impasse, and can quickly come to the point of 'giving up' to the flesh.

But when in the Spirit, we find ourselves 'separated' from the flesh, and are therefore able to live according to God's law. We do not try to obey, we simply do obey. However, our flesh hates this, and therefore it wars with us. Trying every which way it can to convince our minds that it is wrong. This is why we should be transformed in the renewing of our minds.

Rom 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

To state that the 10 commandments of God are not "good" or "acceptable" or "perfect" is complete nonsense. They are. Sure, they were used to show sin and the need for a Savior. But how is that bad? It can be bad, it can be sin, WHEN they are used to try and be holy before God. When they are looked at as the "way" to righteousness, then they DO become sin in us. Why?

Because, Christ is our aim. His image is our goal. What is His image?

Jhn 14:5-10 Thomas said to him, "Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?" Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him." Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."

Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.

His image was the Father. The Father dwelling in Him, doing His works through Him. Its the same for us. Faith comes from knowing personally who Jesus is, and in that knowing we know that He declared the image of the Father. So faith can be based upon ALL of God's words to mankind.

The 10 commandments, placed inside the ark, are Spiritual characteristics that we find in Christ. If those characteristics are not found in us, then how can we state that Christ is in us?

 

[Nathan]

Will there be "laws" in the kingdom? Would that make them "burdensome" also? Or do we think that everyone will get to do what ever they want?

This is kind of a hard question to answer. Because in all actuality we WILL be doing what we want. But what we want is going to be exactly what God wants. It will be love in its purest form.

So the question that should be asked now is what will we be "doing" on the new earth?

 

[Who Says]

Ummm.....Nathan, what the guy said on the radio is actually the Truth.
We are not under law, we should not try to keep the law, the law does not give us love, Christ does and He is our Law now. Love is freedom, the law is being under a bondage of a set of rules. The law is in our hearts, we are no long in the letter of the law, yet in the Spirit of Truth.

Blessings.

What that man from the radio as Nathan quoted should have made clear is that the Old Law was given to men who believed they had the power to keep law from the outside in. To do that a man must draw the capability to be faithful to it from his own power.

The change is that we now keep it from the inside out, drawing our power to be faithful to law from our love of God through faith.

That was Jesus' point, "First clean the inside of the cup and platter that the outside might become clean." (Matthew 23:26)

We do not really know if he did or did not make that clear or if the point was just missed as he was listened to. We cannot really say one way or the other without having heard him ourselves.

But neither can we say what Nathan said was wrong unless we heard the man ourselves.

 

[savedgeezer]

What we call the "law" is simply God's instruction for how to live your life after you have been "saved by grace thru faith".

:yes

 

[Nathan]

The change is that we now keep it from the inside out, drawing our power to be faithful to law from our love of God through faith.

What we call the "law" is simply God's instruction for how to live your life after you have been "saved by grace thru faith".

:yes

Can the issue really get anymore simple than this?

 

[Elijah674]

Will there be "laws" in the kingdom? Would that make them "burdensome" also? Or do we think that everyone will get to do what ever they want?

This is kind of a hard question to answer. Because in all actuality we WILL be doing what we want. But what we want is going to be exactly what God wants. It will be love in its purest form.

So the question that should be asked now is what will we be "doing" on the new earth?

Will be doing? Eccl. 12:13-14 one ARE to be doing!;)

 

[Who Says]

Can the issue really get anymore simple than this?

Amen

Hey that's right!

Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Most Excellent !!!

 

[Who Says]

I want to reword this slightly:

What that man from the radio as Nathan quoted should have made clear is that the Old Law was given to men who believed they had the power to keep law from the outside in. To do that a man must draw the capability to be faithful to it from the power of his own righteousness.

The change is that we now keep it from the inside out, drawing our power to be faithful to law from our love of God through faith and our regeneration in Christ to God's righteousness.

That was Jesus' point, "First clean the inside of the cup and platter that the outside might become clean." (Matthew 23:26)

 

[Elijah674]

I want to reword this slightly:

What that man from the radio as Nathan quoted should have made clear is that the Old Law was given to men who believed they had the power to keep law from the outside in. To do that a man must draw the capability to be faithful to it from the power of his own righteousness.

The change is that we now keep it from the inside out, drawing our power to be faithful to law from our love of God through faith and our regeneration in Christ to God's righteousness.

That was Jesus' point, "First clean the inside of the cup and platter that the outside might become clean." (Matthew 23:26)

There were many that were Born Again in the O.T. That was a REQUIREMENT as seen in John 3:3 for ALL of the saved of mankind. Old Nic was even from the O.T. at birth. And King Saul was made a New Man & given a new heart! 1 Sam. 10:6 & verse 9) There was NO WAY to be more saved than that!

The limitation was because of Christ not being able to present Himself omnipresent because of Adam loosing his domain to satan until Christ God/Man won it back! Then when Christ left to do His FINISHED Work of being our High Priest, He sent the Holy Spiritback to UPLIFT CHRIST [[HIMSELF]] now Omnipresent!

And true,the Holy Spirit was later on removed from King Saul, because of His 'full cup' of fatal sinning.
And Acts 5:32 is an Eternal Mandatory Law Truth, for ones [starting point] if and when one is 100% Fully surrendered!

--Elijah

 

[Who Says]

There were many that were Born Again in the O.T. That was a REQUIREMENT as seen in John 3:3 for ALL of the saved of mankind. Old Nic was even from the O.T. at birth. And King Saul was made a New Man & given a new heart! 1 Sam. 10:6 & verse 9) There was NO WAY to be more saved than that!

The limitation was because of Christ not being able to present Himself omnipresent because of Adam loosing his domain to satan until Christ God/Man won it back! Then when Christ left to do His FINISHED Work of being our High Priest, He sent the Holy Spiritback to UPLIFT CHRIST [[HIMSELF]] now Omnipresent!

And true,the Holy Spirit was later on removed from King Saul, because of His 'full cup' of fatal sinning.
And Acts 5:32 is an Eternal Mandatory Law Truth, for ones [starting point] if and when one is 100% Fully surrendered!

--Elijah

I see what you are saying but feel you miss the heart of the matter.

You know that at our best our own righteousness is as filthy rags. I have no need to tell you where that is written because you know.

To do it the way you are suggesting is to do it by our own power to do right and our own will to do it. And that is where you have missed what is being done in Christ.

We have no righteousness of our own to draw on to do right and when we try to do it that way we only manage a flawed form of right that is like filthy rags.

Therefore we dispose of our own will and way to put on Christ's will (his spirit) not deciding for ourselves how we are to do it but doing it exactly as he wills it.

As long as you try to do things externally your will is involved and your will only interferes with his will. If you were really dead and risen in Christ your will would also be dead. There is only Christ's will operating in his body and if you try to bring your will into his body you are acting as the head rather than a body member.

While much of this is figurative it is essential that we begin thinking this way or we will always strive for righteousness by means of trusting in our own righteousness by means of our own will power and thus we will always fall short of his righteousness.

Jesus Christ told us plainly how we must do it, Matthew 23:26 "Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also."

Why do you insist on ignoring that counsel?

 

[Elijah674]

I see what you are saying but feel you miss the heart of the matter.

You know that at our best our own righteousness is as filthy rags. I have no need to tell you where that is written because you know.

To do it the way you are suggesting is to do it by our own power to do right and our own will to do it. And that is where you have missed what is being done in Christ.

We have no righteousness of our own to draw on to do right and when we try to do it that way we only manage a flawed form of right that is like filthy rags.

Therefore we dispose of our own will and way to put on Christ's will (his spirit) not deciding for ourselves how we are to do it but doing it exactly as he wills it.

As long as you try to do things externally your will is involved and your will only interferes with his will. If you were really dead and risen in Christ your will would also be dead. There is only Christ's will operating in his body and if you try to bring your will into his body you are acting as the head rather than a body member.

While much of this is figurative it is essential that we begin thinking this way or we will always strive for righteousness by means of trusting in our own righteousness by means of our own will power and thus we will always fall short of his righteousness.

Jesus Christ told us plainly how we must do it, Matthew 23:26 "Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also."

Why do you insist on ignoring that counsel?

Please! No personal mind reading of what you 'think?' is inside of my brain, OK??
No where have 'i' (and this is umpth'teen time that I have posted this!) EVER SAID or even hinted that the BORN AGAIN (+ myself) of the O.T. ones were ever saved any other way than what God DOCUMENTS (not me!) as seen in Heb. 11:13! Acts 5:32! And most all if not all of those were from creation on while being in the O.T.

And that is by James 2's Inspired Working OBEDIENT FAITH.
Again, Acts 5:32 has [[[NO OTHER WAY to be Given the Holy Spirit!]]]
God REQUIRES, & Eternally REQUIRED.. in Eternity for His creation to SURRENDER to His GODSHIP & [[then]] came Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor, 12:9 Grace & Power!

What you have in your post is saying that 'i' have the law before Christ.
But the Truth is that they both (His Covenant No.1 & His Person No. 2) ARE 'THE LOVE LETTER 'EPISTLE' OF Himself! GOD IS LOVE!! 2 Cor. 3:3 (and cannot be seperated!) Heb. 13:20's ETERNAL Truth!

And thanks much pal! --Elijah

You say:
"Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also."

Why do you insist on ignoring that counsel?[/QUOTE]

 

[Who Says]

Please! No personal mind reading of what you 'think?' is inside of my brain, OK??
No where have 'i' (and this is umpteen time that I have posted this!) EVER SAID or even hinted that the BORN AGAIN (+ myself) of the O.T. ones were ever saved any other way than what God DOCUMENTS (not me!) as seen in Heb. 11:13! Acts 5:32! And most all if not all of those were from creation on while being in the O.T.

And that is by James W's Inspired Working OBEDIENT FAITH.
Again, Acts 5:32 has [[[NO OTHER WAY to be Given the Holy Spirit!]]]
God REQUIRES, & Eternally REQUIRED.. in Eternity for His creation to SURRENDER to His GOD SHIP & [[then]] came Phil. 4:13 + 2 CO, 12:9 Grace & Power!

What you have in your post is saying that 'i' have the law before Christ.
But the Truth is that they both (His Covenant No.1 & His Person No. 2) ARE 'THE LOVE LETTER 'EPISTLE' OF Himself! GOD IS LOVE!! 2 CO. 3:3 (and cannot be separated!) Heb. 13:W's ETERNAL Truth!

And thanks much pal! --Elijah

You say:
"Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also."

Why do you insist on ignoring that counsel?

Elijah Elijah Elijah

Your offense demonstrates the very matter we speak concerning.

Let's see if you can explain to me how that would be true?

Look carefully once again at what I wrote and ask yourself if what you wrote is really what I wrote. Ask yourself, 'Did he say that I was a Pharisee or did he say that Jesus spoke a principle we ALL need to obey?'

And then explain to me how anyone's quickness to take offense demonstrates the matter of needing to first clean the inside of the cup and platter.

 

[Elijah674]

Elijah Elijah Elijah

Your offense demonstrates the very matter we speak concerning.

Let's see if you can explain to me how that would be true?

When one does not BELIEVE the 'posted' Word of God, what hope is there for me to be of any help??
Forum: See Luke 16:31, 1 John 4:6 + Heb. 5:11-13 & Heb. 6:3 seems to find this IMPOSSIBLE at this time! :bigcry

 

[Who Says]

When one does not BELIEVE the 'posted' Word of God, what hope is there for me to be of any help??
Forum: See Luke 16:31, 1 John 4:6 + Heb. 5:11-13 & Heb. 6:3 seems to find this IMPOSSIBLE at this time! :bigcry

I had written: (Jesus Christ told us plainly how we must do it, Matthew 23:26 "Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.")

You wrote back saying: (You say:
"Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.")

Think about how that desire to express God's law in the way you did there violates God's love and why.

And please don't allow yourself to become even more upset.

Elijah, I am no better than you. We need to all of see this tendency in us to put it in check. But we have to understand why it is allowed to occur if we are to be able and do that. It is our flesh that does this. And it is a sign that we are trying to obey God's law in a fleshly way when we do that.

I am as guilty as you. You are as guilty as me. Please I beg you as a brother, join me in seeing this and changing it.