The Lords Sabbaths and his Feasts, Holy Convocations/Leviticus 23:1; 1 Corinthians 5:8

[JLB]

So, what do you think the author of Hebrews meant by the Scriptures that I posted?
Heb 4:3 (LEB) For we who have believed enter into rest, …

For we who have believed [past tense] do enter that rest, [future tense] as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest,' " although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. Hebrews 4:3

The principle of faith: Faith is the substance of things hoped and the evidence of things not seen.

If you have believed, then you have the substance of the thing you are hoping for [the promised rest]... which is evidence of things not seen.

There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.



JLB

 

[JLB]

And then clarifies what rest he’s talking about in the next verse (the seventh day). That’s the rest I’m talking about too. Not the rest from all their enemies round about that Joshua 23:1 is talking about.

That's just it, brother, the seventh day, the rest to come [1000 years] is all about rest from your enemies, that last enemy being death. The seventh weekly day foreshadows this very thing that we are longing to obtain, for now we who believe have entered it by faith.

4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works"; 5 and again in this place: "They shall not enter My rest." 6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts." 8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. Hebrews 4:4-8


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

lol, I meant the Lord's return.

I know. I like to bring some of the Lounge humor down here sometimes.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Paul, being led by the Spirit to do these things was for the purpose of setting free those who were under the law, that they might receive the adoption as sons... that they would be delivered from the law.

I agree that it is possible that the Spirit may lead a believer to observe the law in this New Covenant.

 

[Butch5]

I know. I like to bring some of the Lounge humor down here sometimes.

Oh, OK!

 

[JLB]

I agree that it is possible that the Spirit may lead a believer to observe the law in this New Covenant.

If Paul "becomes" as one under the law to his fellow countrymen after the flesh, because the Spirit of God has moved upon him to do this, desiring to see them saved and delivered from the law so that they might be adopted as sons, then it is "faith" [inspired by God] working by love to see them saved.

However, if it is Paul himself that is doing this because he thinks it's a "good idea", when God has actually told him to stay with the Gentiles and continue the work that he started, then it will be considered dead works, and Paul will be in the wrong place, with the wrong people, doing the wrong thing, which most likely means "crawling out from under another pile of rocks" that the Jews used to stone him with.

Because he was operating in his own strength and not the demonstration and power of the Spirit.


It's cookies verses the crack house.

One is faith working by love, the other is dead works from rebellion.



JLB

 

[chessman]

The weekly Sabbath day is a shadow of the 1000 year long Sabbath Day to come.

As Peter explains -
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2 Peter 3:8

I could do the same thing you have here (assume Peter meant Sabbath day) when the text doesn't say Sabbath day.

Here goes:
The weekly Lord's Day is a shadow of the 1000 year long Lord's Day to come.

As Peter explains - 2 Peter 3:8

See anything wrong with that exegesis? You should. It's called isegesis. Once again, this text isn't talking about The weekly Sabbath day or the weekly Lord's day, or Peter would have said 'to the Lord a Sabbath Day is as 1,000 years'. But he didn't. All days of the week (not just the first or the seventh) are as to the Lord 1,000 years are to us. That's what Peter meant.

Otherwise concerning the weekly Sabbath Paul teaches -

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
Colossians 2:16

Finally, a passage that speaks of the weekly sabbath.

Umm, that's my point. The substance of the weekly Sabbath is Christ the Lord.

Colossians 2:6-7, 9-12, 16-17 Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, live in him, firmly rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding with thankfulness. because in him all the fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you are filled in him, who is the head over every ruler and authority, in whom also you were circumcised with a circumcision not made by hands, by the removal of the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which also you were raised together with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. Therefore do not let anyone judge you with reference to eating or drinking or participation in a feast or a new moon or a Sabbath, which are a shadow of what is to come, but the reality is Christ.​

See, the reality of the weekly Sabbath is Christ. Since Paul received Christ, was buried with him, and raised together with him in faith, he is now firmly rooted and established in Christ (the very substance of the shadow that was the weekly Sabbath). This is one of the other passages besides Heb 4:3 that provides justification for saying Paul, in reality, is observing the Lord's Sabbath rest right now.

For we who have believed [past tense] do enter that rest, [future tense]

JLB

Simply put, you err here. The tense of the verb enter is present tense, not future tense as you say. It is inspired so, present tense, for a reason. Your "enter that rest [future tense]" is just flat out wrong and therfore unbiblical. Go check it out: Test what I'm saying about it.

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/hebrews/4.htm

View attachment 5920
It's a present tense verb, "we enter".

 

[chessman]

4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works"; 5 and again in this place: "They shall not enter My rest." 6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts." 8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. Hebrews 4:4-8

JLB

Were not talking about they, those or them in this passage. Were talking about us (we who have believed enter into rest, just as he has said). They, those and them did not enter because of unbelief. Paul believe and entered. How could this be any more clear?

 

[JLB]

I could do the same thing you have here (assume Peter meant Sabbath day) when the text doesn't say Sabbath day.

Here goes:
The weekly Lord's Day is a shadow of the 1000 year long Lord's Day to come.

As Peter explains - 2 Peter 3:8

See anything wrong with that exegesis? You should. It's called isegesis. Once again, this text isn't talking about The weekly Sabbath day or the weekly Lord's day, or Peter would have said 'to the Lord a Sabbath Day is as 1,000 years'. But he didn't. All days of the week (not just the first or the seventh) are as to the Lord 1,000 years are to us. That's what Peter meant.


Finally, a passage that speaks of the weekly sabbath.

Umm, that's my point. The substance of the weekly Sabbath is Christ the Lord.

Colossians 2:6-7, 9-12, 16-17 Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, live in him, firmly rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding with thankfulness. because in him all the fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you are filled in him, who is the head over every ruler and authority, in whom also you were circumcised with a circumcision not made by hands, by the removal of the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which also you were raised together with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. Therefore do not let anyone judge you with reference to eating or drinking or participation in a feast or a new moon or a Sabbath, which are a shadow of what is to come, but the reality is Christ.​

See, the reality of the weekly Sabbath is Christ. Since Paul received Christ, was buried with him, and raised together with him in faith, he is now firmly rooted and established in Christ (the very substance of the shadow that was the weekly Sabbath). This is one of the other passages besides Heb 4:3 that provides justification for saying Paul, in reality, is observing the Lord's Sabbath rest right now.


Simply put, you err here. The tense of the verb enter is present tense, not future tense as you say. It is inspired so, present tense, for a reason. Your "enter that rest [future tense]" is just flat out wrong and therfore unbiblical. Go check it out: Test what I'm saying about it.

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/hebrews/4.htm

View attachment 5920
It's a present tense verb, "we enter".

There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. Hebrews 4:9

Please look at all the context, which is why I quoted the scriptures following the one liner you posted.

For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.


It's not just a one time believing, but a continuing until the end.

If you back up a few verses, you will see this point.

14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, 15 while it is said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion." 16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? 17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Hebrews 3:14-19


So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Hebrews 3:19

Remember they believed enough to partake of the Passover and left Egypt.

They were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.

However the point Paul makes for us to take heed to is; They didn't enter what God's final plan for them was, because of unbelief, which the scripture says is disobedience.

The Rest being discussed here is not a Saturday Sabbath, but the eternal purpose of God for His children being fulfilled in those who remain steadfast unto the end.

It's not a believe once thing being taught in these passages, but a faith that continues to the end so that they obtain the rest God had always intended.

There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Were not talking about they, those or them in this passage. Were talking about us (we who have believed enter into rest, just as he has said). They, those and them did not enter because of unbelief. Paul believe and entered. How could this be any more clear?

Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

 

[chessman]

So let me ask you, if you believe that Paul and you have entered that rest, then what is the purpose of "keeping the sabbath" each Saturday?

JLB

First, there is no "if". I do believe Paul and me have entered that rest.
Heb 4:3 says so.
Hebrews 4:3 (LEB) For we who have believed enter into rest [present tense].

But to answer your question, I see no purpose for keeping the Saturday Sabbath each week.

I prefer to worship the Substance of that old/ancient shadow each new day of each new week, The Lord's Day. The ressurection day, since I've been raised with Him (Col 2:12) and filled with Him (Col 2:10)

Colossians 2:10 (LEB) and you are filled in him, who is the head over every ruler and authority, ​

Are you trying to obtain something, that the scripture says you already have?

No. Why would I try and obtain something that the Scriptures says I already have?

Hint: There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.

Hint: when the author of Hebrews speaks of "the people of God", he means the OT dead Jews (the "they", "those" and "them" of Heb 4, not the NT Christians (the Substance of the Sabbath believers).

Hebrews 11:24-26 (LEB) By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, choosing instead to be mistreated with the people of God rather than to experience the transitory enjoyment of sin, considering reproach endured for the sake of Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he was looking to the reward. ​

 

[chessman]

Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

I was diligent and I believed. That's why I believe I'm in His rest.

Weren't you the one that pointed out (rightly) that you could easily translate disobedence with unbelief?

I guess you could say;
Let us therefore be diligent and believe, for we who have believed enter into His rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of unbelief.

 

[JLB]

Let us therefore be diligent and believe, for we who have believed enter into His rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of unbelief.

Yes, Let us be diligent and continue to believe, for those who continue to believe, show forth that they do, by continuing to obey.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Hint: when the author of Hebrews speaks of "the people of God", he means the OT dead Jews (the "they", "those" and "them" of Heb 4, not the NT Christians (the Substance of the Sabbath believers).

There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. 11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

The people of God is collectively all who are His, and Paul includes himself in that group for he says "us".


Go back a few verses for the context -
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

We have become partakers of Christ, [future tense] if we hold the beginning... steadfast to the end.

That's the exhortation... That's the point!

A faith that continues to believe, is a faith that continues to obey.



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If Paul "becomes" as one under the law to his fellow countrymen after the flesh, because the Spirit of God has moved upon him to do this, desiring to see them saved and delivered from the law so that they might be adopted as sons, then it is "faith" [inspired by God] working by love to see them saved.

However, if it is Paul himself that is doing this because he thinks it's a "good idea", when God has actually told him to stay with the Gentiles and continue the work that he started, then it will be considered dead works, and Paul will be in the wrong place, with the wrong people, doing the wrong thing, which most likely means "crawling out from under another pile of rocks" that the Jews used to stone him with.

Because he was operating in his own strength and not the demonstration and power of the Spirit.


It's cookies verses the crack house.

One is faith working by love, the other is dead works from rebellion.

JLB

Paul is our example that shows God moves people by his Holy Spirit to be observant in this New Covenant.

 

[Karl]

What I don't understand is how can we keep the Sabbaths and the Holy Feasts as they were prescribed by God on the exact day He commanded when we have lost track of which day is which?

Ever since the longest day of Joshua 10:12-14 when the orbit of the earth was changed from 360 days to 365 days 6 hours 23 minutes and 41 seconds no one can say precisely which day is the Sabbath.

In a 360 day year starting at the first day of the year Exo 12:2 then counting days as starting at 6:00PM there are 8,640 minutes between then and 6:00 PM Friday, but today we have to add 7.37 minutes per week, so that means the first Sabbath after the longest day actually started on Thursday at 5:52:37.8 ...so I think it's mathematically clear, after all of these centuries, we don't have the slightest idea when and what day is the Sabbath, or any feast days, if we are going to try and observe them as God commanded.

 

[JLB]

Paul is our example that shows God moves people by his Holy Spirit to be observant in this New Covenant.

Observant to obey His Voice.

Observant to be led by His Spirit.

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18

The Holy Spirit leads people to be saved.

The Holy Spirit does not lead people to keep the law of Moses.

He leads people to be redeemed and delivered from the law.

But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. Galatians 4:4-5


JLB

 

[JLB]

What I don't understand is how can we keep the Sabbaths and the Holy Feasts as they were prescribed by God on the exact day He commanded when we have lost track of which day is which?

Ever since the longest day of Joshua 10:12-14 when the orbit of the earth was changed from 360 days to 365 days 6 hours 23 minutes and 41 seconds no one can say precisely which day is the Sabbath.

In a 360 day year starting at the first day of the year Exo 12:2 then counting days as starting at 6:00PM there are 8,640 minutes between then and 6:00 PM Friday, but today we have to add 7.37 minutes per week, so that means the first Sabbath after the longest day actually started on Thursday at 5:52:37.8 ...so I think it's mathematically clear, after all of these centuries, we don't have the slightest idea when and what day is the Sabbath, or any feast days, if we are going to try and observe them as God commanded.

The Sabbath day is the seventh day of the week, which is Saturday.


The Sabbath was made for man, to give him a day of rest.

 

[Butch5]

What I don't understand is how can we keep the Sabbaths and the Holy Feasts as they were prescribed by God on the exact day He commanded when we have lost track of which day is which?

Ever since the longest day of Joshua 10:12-14 when the orbit of the earth was changed from 360 days to 365 days 6 hours 23 minutes and 41 seconds no one can say precisely which day is the Sabbath.

In a 360 day year starting at the first day of the year Exo 12:2 then counting days as starting at 6:00PM there are 8,640 minutes between then and 6:00 PM Friday, but today we have to add 7.37 minutes per week, so that means the first Sabbath after the longest day actually started on Thursday at 5:52:37.8 ...so I think it's mathematically clear, after all of these centuries, we don't have the slightest idea when and what day is the Sabbath, or any feast days, if we are going to try and observe them as God commanded.

I'm not sure about what you've posted here, but, if it's correct, why do you think it would change the sabbaths and feast days?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Observant to obey His Voice.

Observant to be led by His Spirit.

Which we now know from the Bible may mean keeping the Sabbath and Feast cycle. Thus the meaning of the word 'observant' they use to distinguish themselves as among those who observe the Sabbath and Festival cycle.

God bless 'em.