The Man Child / The Very Elect

[Benoni]

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rising up out of the sea." The sea-- bespeaks the mass of humanity, out of which rises the bestial systems which have placed their mark upon "ALL, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond." The fact is every creature bears this mark of the bestial nature, until such a time as the cross cancels out the old Adamic nature, and we are born anew with the Christ nature, to bear THE MARK OF GOD, being partakers of the divine nature, and conformed to the image of The Son.

The Greek word used here for "mark" is "charagma." Eight times, and all in the book of Revelation, it is translated as "mark," and means: an engraving, an impressed mark. Then once it is given as "graven," in Acts 17:29, and it is in this latter reference that we find the explanation or key as to what the MARK involves in its relationship to man, for this mark is brought about by ART and by MAN'S DEVICE.

"For as much then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, GRAVEN by art and man's device."
The Greek word for "art" is techni" meaning: art, skill, craft, technology; and thus speaks of the work of the hands, or handiwork, and has its correlation to that which is received in "the right hand," as spoken of in Revelation.

The word "devices" is from the Greek "enthumesis" meaning: INWARD THINKING, or inner thought, which deals with our mental activity, and pertains to the forehead.

Thus we have the ENGRAVING BY HANDIWORK, and the CONTROLLING OF OUR THINKING. That which would seek to place its image upon us, dealing with the work of our hands, and the brainwashing of our minds, to think according to its nature and purpose.

Pursuing this a bit further, we find another Greek word closely akin, it is "charakter", translated as "express image." Hebrews 1:3, "Who being the brightness of glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE of His person..." Speaking, of course, of Christ Jesus, and then by extension, of His anointed ones who partake of His divine nature and are conformed to His image, so as to also become expressions, or manifestations of the substance of God, as revealed through His, and our character. Thus, the MARK speaks of that handiwork and the inward thinking which brings forth an expression of character in line with the very source from which the mark comes. Either we will express the character of God, or the character of the bestial system of this world. It is not speaking only of an outward form, which could be covered with a masquerade for a time, but it refers to that INNER QUALITY OF CHARACTER WHICH IS BEING DEVELOPED IN US, which in due time shall be revealed, for "the day shall declare it."

The "mark of the beast" is the direct opposite to the "MARK OF GOD," and is an imprint of the nature and character of this world's bestial system. The challenge to OVERCOME this mark of the bestial has been with us a long time-- ever since "The Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to KEEP (guard) it." (Genesis 2:15).

There was a beast waiting to place its mark upon the Adam. "The serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made." (Genesis 3:1 ). And in Revelation we again have this charge to guard against the beast, and the system which it represents.

We find that the IMPRINT was made when Eve responded to the serpent's argument, which caused her to "take of the fruit," which had been forbidden her. Immediately the mark was in her forehead, and then in her hand. Adam joined her in this receiving of the mark. And having taken the imprint-- they began to manifest the nature, character of the bestial, in selfish, rebellious, minding the flesh behavior.

In Revelation, again the hand and the mind are involved with the mark of the beast-- the influence that causes one to think and act according to the ways of the world.

It is this flesh nature that identifies us with this world's carnality. "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, sedition, heresies, envying, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: - they that do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." But then in contra-distinction to such negativism, we find that the new Christ nature bears a far different imprint, for "The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance." (Galatians 5:19-23). O, to bear the mark of God!

Not only is the bestial mark stamped upon the nature of man, to influence his thinking, and his handiwork, but we live under the mark of the beast by living in this commercialized world order. "That no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." If we buy a car, a home, clothes, food, pay taxes, etc. it is all under the mark of the beast. Whether we use a barter system, or silver coins, we have to do business according to our culture and order of society.

The name, nature, character of the beast touches every facet of our natural life. Yet Jesus had no trouble with this, and He instructed the people to "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." (Mark 12:17). So when faced with the demand for tribute money, He said to Peter, "Lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for Me and thee." (Matthew 17:27). He used the money of the system to pay the tribute of the system, and in doing so, He made sure that no one could say He owed them anything. Even though HE TRULY BELONGED TO A DIFFERENT ORDER, THE HEAVENLY, yet He submitted to the present order, while He maintained a PURE SPIRIT un- touched by that order. He did not rebel against that society, for such rebellion would have defiled Him, having partaken of the world's spirit of rebellion. He gave the system its due, and therefore was free of any obligation to it. Ray Prinzing

 

[whirlwind]

Not only is the bestial mark stamped upon the nature of man, to influence his thinking, and his handiwork, but we live under the mark of the beast by living in this commercialized world order. "That no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." If we buy a car, a home, clothes, food, pay taxes, etc. it is all under the mark of the beast. Whether we use a barter system, or silver coins, we have to do business according to our culture and order of society.

Hi Benoni,

Interesting post. Thank you.

Several months ago a friend on another forum showed something to me about the "buying and selling" in the end of days. It isn't speaking about things....food, goods, etc. but about our souls. It is spiritual in nature. Only those that follow Satan, have the mark or number, will be trading in souls. False teachers.

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by whirlwind
But the sixth seal IS NOT telling us about the second coming of Christ. It is telling us of Satan's arrival...not when he actually arrives but telling us about when and how he will arrive.


* Revelation 6:1-2 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, "come and see." And I saw, and behold, a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

That isn't Christ...it is the fake.

I need to point out that this is NOT the first seal...it is "one of the seals." The seals are numbered second, third, etc. but the above is not listed as the "first seal." It is one of the seven but not the first!

Instead of it being the first seal the Lamb is opening it is the sixth seal! Both [6:1-2 and 6:12-14] are the same event. They are about Satan's time, his great tribulation. It is revealed to us first, out of sequence, as it is the most important for us to know.

The seal (secret being revealed to us), is that Satan will arrive before Christ, pretending to be Christ.

Hi WW,

Now you're really starting to lose me. First the Seals are merely "foreknowledge", and now the Seals are "out of order". I don't think so. I think some preacher is taking you for a ride on the magic carpet. Each prophecy has a beginning and ending point in time and the events within each prophecy must occur in the order they are given. A fulfillment of prophecy occurs when all of the specifications within that prophecy are met. This includes the order of events outlined in the prophecy. The "book on the whole" may contain parenthetical chapters, and chronologies may be broken, but not the order of events outlined in a specific prophecy. The bulk of private interpretation and false teaching comes from chaotic methods of interpretation that don't follow the context of what is written. You might as well toss out any hope of understanding if that is your approach. The Sixth Seal (specified as "the SIXTH Seal") is the return of Christ:


Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

It is VERY clear that Jesus returns during the Sixth Seal. You state that the FIRST Seal (or, the Seal that is presented FIRST, but unnumbered) is actually the SIXTH? That's nonsense. The FIRST TWO SEALS are the only Seals that are not specifically numbered (in the KJV - in the Greek, it is only the FIRST). The rest are numbered. This is a very odd and erroneous approach, and I have no idea why you would attempt to "change" God's Word. When God says "SIXTH SEAL", He does NOT mean "it's actually the FIRST SEAL, but I'm calling it the SIXTH" (or vice-versa); He means "THE SIXTH SEAL"! The Seals are in order, precisely the way God intended them to be. God does not play games with His Word!

 

[Cornelius]

I think we might have reached the end of this particular thread. A few new subjects are starting to emerge, like the seals . Maybe we can open a thread for the "seals" ? I personally would like to keep on discussing the man child, but this time I want to focus how to manifest Christ. Why are they first to manifest Christ ? What did they do differently than the rest of the church?

C

 

[whirlwind]

Originally posted by whirlwind
But the sixth seal IS NOT telling us about the second coming of Christ. It is telling us of Satan's arrival...not when he actually arrives but telling us about when and how he will arrive.


* Revelation 6:1-2 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, "come and see." And I saw, and behold, a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

That isn't Christ...it is the fake.

I need to point out that this is NOT the first seal...it is "one of the seals." The seals are numbered second, third, etc. but the above is not listed as the "first seal." It is one of the seven but not the first!

Instead of it being the first seal the Lamb is opening it is the sixth seal! Both [6:1-2 and 6:12-14] are the same event. They are about Satan's time, his great tribulation. It is revealed to us first, out of sequence, as it is the most important for us to know.

The seal (secret being revealed to us), is that Satan will arrive before Christ, pretending to be Christ.

Hi WW,

Now you're really starting to lose me. First the Seals are merely "foreknowledge", and now the Seals are "out of order". I don't think so. I think some preacher is taking you for a ride on the magic carpet.

No man showed that to me.

Each prophecy has a beginning and ending point in time and the events within each prophecy must occur in the order they are given. A fulfillment of prophecy occurs when all of the specifications within that prophecy are met. This includes the order of events outlined in the prophecy. The "book on the whole" may contain parenthetical chapters, and chronologies may be broken, but not the order of events outlined in a specific prophecy. The bulk of private interpretation and false teaching comes from chaotic methods of interpretation that don't follow the context of what is written. You might as well toss out any hope of understanding if that is your approach. The Sixth Seal (specified as "the SIXTH Seal") is the return of Christ:


Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

It is VERY clear that Jesus returns during the Sixth Seal. You state that the FIRST Seal (or, the Seal that is presented FIRST, but unnumbered) is actually the SIXTH? That's nonsense. The FIRST TWO SEALS are the only Seals that are not specifically numbered (in the KJV - in the Greek, it is only the FIRST). The rest are numbered. This is a very odd and erroneous approach, and I have no idea why you would attempt to "change" God's Word. When God says "SIXTH SEAL", He does NOT mean "it's actually the FIRST SEAL, but I'm calling it the SIXTH" (or vice-versa); He means "THE SIXTH SEAL"! The Seals are in order, precisely the way God intended them to be. God does not play games with His Word!

• * Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: But the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

Many see [Revelation 6] being about the arrival of Jesus but look what is truly being taught (search out a matter)


Satan...the fake christ:

• * Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold, a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

He arrives on a white "horse" just as the true Savior. His crown (his one crown) is "given unto him," (God allows him this power and authority) and he is here to conquer! Notice that he has a bow. Not a weapon type of bow but an imitation of the rainbow which surrounds Jesus.

Bow # 5115 toxon, as the simplest fabric, bow.

Compare what you have just read to the following:


Jesus...the Messiah:

• * Revelation 19:11-13 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse; and He That sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war. His eyes were as flames of fire, and on His head were many crowns; and He had a name written, that no man knew, but He Himself. And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The Word of God.

What of His bow?

• * Revelation 10:1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
  
  4:2-3 And immediately I was in the Spirit: and behold, a throne was set in heaven, and One sat on the throne. And He That sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

Revelation 6 is about the fake christ...the great deceiver.

 

[whirlwind]

I think we might have reached the end of this particular thread. A few new subjects are starting to emerge, like the seals . Maybe we can open a thread for the "seals" ? I personally would like to keep on discussing the man child, but this time I want to focus how to manifest Christ. Why are they first to manifest Christ ? What did they do differently than the rest of the church?

C

I worked on the next part today....and will probably post it tomorrow. It is mainly concerned with what is required of the man child. I hope you will go into "how to manifest Christ." If it is what I suspect it is....dying to self and exactly what that entails, then you now know why I hoped you would stay involved in this thread. I hoped to conclude with that subject and I have many questions. :yes

 

[Benoni]

The man child speaks of God's Overcomer. The Man-child is a spiritual symbolism that made up of two spiritual examples. Man or masculine, mature, a man is always addressed as something that is masculine. God is almost always addressed in the masculine, the Holy Spirit, masculine; anything spiritual is always masculine.

A Child; someone who is open; not childish as many religious people who are not open to spiritual things but a mature openness to what God is saying..

Manchild someone who is spiritual mature open and born from the religion

I think we might have reached the end of this particular thread. A few new subjects are starting to emerge, like the seals . Maybe we can open a thread for the "seals" ? I personally would like to keep on discussing the man child, but this time I want to focus how to manifest Christ. Why are they first to manifest Christ ? What did they do differently than the rest of the church?

C

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by whirlwind
Revelation 6 is about the fake christ...the great deceiver.

Oh my.

We definitely should return to the Man Child discussion. :D

 

[Cornelius]

The man child speaks of God's Overcomer. The Man-child is a spiritual symbolism that made up of two spiritual examples. Man or masculine, mature, a man is always addressed as something that is masculine. God is almost always addressed in the masculine, the Holy Spirit, masculine; anything spiritual is always masculine.

A Child; someone who is open; not childish as many religious people who are not open to spiritual things but a mature openness to what God is saying..

Manchild someone who is spiritual mature open and born from the religion

I think we might have reached the end of this particular thread. A few new subjects are starting to emerge, like the seals . Maybe we can open a thread for the "seals" ? I personally would like to keep on discussing the man child, but this time I want to focus how to manifest Christ. Why are they first to manifest Christ ? What did they do differently than the rest of the church?

C

That is correct. Man as in mature and child as in small (also in number) and as in "born from" the church (woman) as a whole.

But we should then talk about the "how" too. How does one overcome. I will put a few scripture together that deals with this later. I want to give WW a chance first to finish what she had prepared. I think she still have some posting to do about the man child ?? .......

Can we agree to stay away from the rest of Revelation and its trumpets and seals and timing, while we talk about this? Because we are all in agreement about the man child, and the enemy would love to separate us at this point to disrupt this. Its dangerous for him, when we get this knowledge, so this normally does not go without an effort to disrupt.

 

[whirlwind]

Part 7...............

The last segment ended with:

The days of the great tribulation have been shortened (written twice as our second witness just as the following verses also bear witness twice to the time it was shortened).

Revelation 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

Is that a literal five months? I don't know. Is the "hour of temptation," which isn't a literal hour the literal five months? I don't know. We are not to know the day or the hour. Is that hour of temptation the five months during which some of the elect will have ten days of tribulation?

In rereading this a question arises. Where it is written that men would be tormented for five months....is that men, as in mankind, or men, as in the man child? I believe it is about the man child. Men won't be tormented at all for they will believe the lies. They will fall for the deception so there is no torment involved...for them. They will have taken the mark of the beast. The tribulation is a time of great deception and those they attempt to deceive (torment) are those that follow God.

• * Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

This, I believe, is the time of the great tribulation....the five months. This is a large part of the destiny of the man child. They are those who "have the testimony of Jesus Christ." The testimony, the Word...the latter rain....Christ in them. In the Olivet prophecies, when Jesus explained to His disciples about the events leading to the end of days....He tells the man child what will happen to them.....

• * Mark 13:9-11 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony against them. And the gospel must first be published among all nations. But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

The "seed" of the woman is the man child, the very elect, those with the testimony. We have two different time frames to consider here. The five months mentioned above and the ten days written of below.....

• * Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Notice that only "some" will be tried in this manner. All will go through the five month tribulation but only some through ten days of trial....and I assume that those ten days are on an individual basis for each of the saints but continue throughout the five months. What is our example of the end time and.....those ten days of trial?

King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon beseiged Jerusalem and "the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand" along with.....

• * Daniel 1:4-5 Children in whom was no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans. And the king appointed them a daily provision of the king's meat, and of the wine which he drank: so nourishing them three years, that at the end thereof they might stand before the king.

Our Father wants us to go into captivity to the king of Babylon...a type for Satan. He will give the King of Judah (Jesus) and His children, the man child, (those with no blemish), to the one that will sit pretending to be our king. How? Jesus is in His man child, He is with them...."for He hath said, "I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." [Hebrews 13:5]

• * 1:12-15 Prove thy servants, I beseech thee, ten days; and let them give us pulse to eat, and water to drink. Then let our countenances be looked upon before thee, and the countenance of the children that eat of the portion of the king's meat: and as thou seest, deal with thy servants." So he consented to them in this matter, and proved them ten days. And at the end of ten days their countenances appeared fairer and fatter in flesh than all the children which did eat the portion of the king's meat.

The fake king will bring the man child to him to partake of his food (his lies). Those that do "eat the portion of the king's meat," his deception, fail the test. The man child will be proven for ten days and will stand!


Among those proven in Daniels time were the men children Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego. What happened to them....for they are the historic types that tell the story of the future man children.

 

[whirlwind]

Part 8......

Types showing the man child:

• * Exodus 15:22-27 So Moses brought Israel from the Red Sea, and they went out into the wilderness of Shur; (which means a wall, this wall separating Egypt/the world, from them) and they went three days in the wilderness, and found no water. And when they came to Marah, they could not drink of the waters of Marah, for they were bitter: therefore the name of it was called Marah. And the People murmured against Moses, saying, "What shall we drink?" And he cried unto the LORD; and the LORD shewed him a tree, which when he had cast into the waters, the waters were made sweet: There He made for them a statute and an ordinance, and there He proved them, And said, "If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in His sight, and wilt give ear to His commandments, and keep all His statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee." And they came to Elim, (meaning, strong trees) where were twelve wells of water, and threescore and ten palm trees: and they encamped there by the waters.

What that passage means to me is…it is a shadow, a type of the end of this age. Moses, a type of Christ, brings His chosen…Israel, across the Red Sea. Across to the other side. Are they in the promised land? No, not yet. These are not the man child but they are the righteous. They are shown in those three days what it is to be without Christ for they "found no water." Then, when water was found, it was bitter…it wasn't His true life giving water. Then, they are shown a tree…The Tree of Life!

God tells them that if they follow certain rules they will be separated from the Egyptians (those of the world, those without Him). So then…."they came to *Elim," which means "strong trees." Those strong trees are the man child and they will teach them the discipline of His statutes and commandments. There are seventy palm trees (strong trees) and twelve wells of water….

• * Isaiah 12:3 Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation."
  
  The Biblical number twelve means....governmental perfection
  
  Number seventy means ....a combination of the two perfect numbers, seven and ten, meaning perfect spiritual order carried out with all spiritual power and significance. Both spirit and order are greatly emphasized. ~ Numbers in Scripture - Bullinger
  
  * Elim is generally identified by the best authorities with "Wady Garundle," about halfway down the shore of the Gulf of Suez. A few palm trees still remain, and the water is excellent. – Smith's Bible Dictionary.

What, or who, are the seventy (threescore and ten) palm trees symbolic of? They, and the twelve wells of water, will be waiting for the other children of God in the wilderness of end times. The clues we get from Scripture are....

• * Numbers 11:16-17 And the LORD said unto Moses, "Gather unto me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom thou knowest to be the elders of the People, and officers over them; and bring them unto the tabernacle of the congregation, that they may stand there with thee. And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the People with thee, that thou bear it not thyself alone.
  
  11:24 And Moses went out, and told the People the words of the LORD, and gathered the seventy men of the elders of the People, and set them round about the tabernacle

Moses is a type of Christ. In the end of days it is He that "knowest" the ones that will follow Him...in all the ways He will require of them. This historic event is our example of what will be. This was how the Sanhedrin was formed but it speaks of a future event. Another example of the seventy men children is....

• * Genesis 46:27 And the sons of Joseph, which were born him in Egypt, were two souls: all the souls of the house of Jacob, which came into Egypt, were threescore and ten.

Two and seventy? The seventy are the man child, the "palm trees," while the two, the two sons of Joseph, the "two souls," represent the two witnesses...of which there are many. They are the candlesticks and olive trees of [Zechariah 4]. The "twelve wells" are the "officers," [Num. 11:16-17 above] over the palm trees (seventy men children) of end times.

• * Deuteronomy 10:22 Thy fathers went down into Egypt with threescore and ten persons; and now the LORD thy God hath made thee as the stars of heaven for multitude.

The "fathers" are the officers, the twelve wells, that went to Egypt with the seventy palm trees. The twelve fathers may well be the spirits of the prophets or disciples and the seventy palms will draw "living water," truth, from them as they feed (teach) His children (Israel, the woman) in the wilderness.

• * Exodus 1:5-6 And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls: for Joseph was in Egypt already. And Joseph died, and all his brethren, and all that generation.
  
  Genesis 50:3 And forty days were fulfilled for him; for so are fulfilled the days of those which are

embalmed: and the Egyptians mourned for him threescore and ten days.

They mourned a day for each of the men children that will be killed.


Joseph, another type of our Savior, and the seventy souls (of whom the seventy palm trees are symbolic) went to Egypt and joined Joseph. The seventy are of Jacob/Israel and they are the chosen ones, "the remnant whom the Lord shall call," to meet Joseph/Christ, and his two sons...the two witnesses, in Egypt...which is symbolic of the world. Joseph/Christ was crucified, "all his brethren," the seventy men children, and "all that generation," meaning the last generation, will all die. All flesh will perish and some will spiritually live while others must be taught during the millennium to see if they will or will not live eternally. Again, the seventy are the man child, the very elect, that will testify....

• * Revelation 11:7-8 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

They testify with the Spirit He "pours upon" them. And, as Christ was with the three Hebrew "men child-(ren)," Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, He will be with the seventy men children of end times. He was crucified in the great city and they will be slain in that same great city. That testimony will bring many, many souls to our Father and they will be as the "stars of heaven."

 

[whirlwind]

Part 9.............


Our Father always shows us the future by the events of the past. Therein...."Behold, I have foretold you all things," [Mark 13:23] can be found. And here...one of the examples is given of the future event of the seventy palm trees, man child, being slain and....who does it.

• * Judges 8:30 And Gideon had threescore and ten sons of his body begotten: for he had many wives.

Gideon, also called Jerubbaal, is a type of Christ. The seventy sons are of "his body" or...of the body of Christ. They are His firstfruits...as Christ is The Firstfruit the seventy are the firstfruits, the man child of end times. Israel, all twelve tribes, are His "wives." From one of Gideon's "concubines" came another son....Abimelech, meaning "father of the king." That is thought to be a title for he is also called Achish, meaning "angry." As Gideon is a type for Christ....his son Abimelech is a type for the antichrist. The birth of Gideon's son Abimelech is written of in....

• * Judges 8:31 And his concubine that was in Shechem, she also bare him a son, whose name he called Abimelech.
  
  Concubine - The difference between wife and concubine was less marked among the Hebrews than among us. A concubine would either be (1) a Hebrew girl bought of her father; (2) a Gentile captive taken in war; (3) a foreign slave bought; or (4) a Canaanitish woman, bond or free. The rights of the first two were protected by the law but the third was unrecognized and the fourth prohibited. ~ Smith's Bible dictionary.

So, to see which of the concubines produced Abimelech we should discover what or where Shechem is, for it was her home.

Shechem means "back or shoulder." Shechem was a son of Hamor, the chieftain of the Hivite settlement of Shechem at the time of Jacob's arrival. It was he, Shechem, that raped Dinah, the daughter of Jacob and Leah. Because of that "two of the sons of Jacob...slew all the males," including Hamor and Shechem. [Genesis 34] From that beginning....is the city of Shechem. What of it today?

• * It is an important city in central Palestine thirty-four miles north of Jerusalem and seven miles southeast of Samaria. It's present name is Nablus....it is an ISLAMIC CITY. After the death of Gideon, Abimelech, his bastard son, induced the Shechemites to revolt from the Hebrew commonwealth and elect him as king. In revenge for his expulsion, after a reign of three years, Abimelech destroyed the city and "sowed the ground with salt." This is the same place the ten tribes renounced the house of David, and transferred their allegiance to Jeroboam and for a time, Shechem became the capital of this kingdom. From the time of the origin of the Samaritans, the history of Shechem blends with the Samaritan people and is called Sychar which is where the Savior conversed with the Samaritan woman at Jacob's well. Today, the Mohammedans make up the bulk of the population. ~ Smith's Bible Dictionary

So, the concubine of Gideon that produced Abimeleh/Achish was....a Caanitish or Hivite woman and was therefore....prohibited, hence being termed his "bastard son." Of those people it is written....

• * Exodus 23:27-28 I will send My fear before thee, and will destroy all the people to whom thou shalt come, and I will make all thine enemies turn their backs unto thee. And I will send hornets before thee, which shall drive out the Hivite, the Canaanite, and the Hittite, from before thee.
  
  23:32-33 Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods. They shall not dwell in thy land, lest they make thee sin against Me: for if thou serve their gods, it will surely be a snare unto thee."

• * Judges 9:1 And Abimelech the son of Jerubbaal went to Shechem unto his mother's brethren, and communed with them, and with all the family of the house of his mother's father, saying,

Knowing who the brethren of his mother was/is and where she was from....I wonder who her "father" was/is? The same father that instructs his children to blow themselves and innocent people to smithereens. The same father that instructs his sons to fly airplanes into towers and kill more innocents. Interestingly, two towers are associated with Abimelech in Judges 9.

• * 9:2-3 Speak, I pray you, in the ears of all the men of Shechem, Whether is better for you, either that all the sons of Jerubbaal, which are threescore and ten persons, reign over you, or that one reign over you? remember also that I am your bone and your flesh. And his mother's brethren spake of him in the ears of all the men of Shechem all these words: and their hearts inclined to follow Abimelech; for they said, "he is our brother."

Abimelech/anti christ, of the same family as the Shechemites, asks if they really want to be ruled by the seventy men children. Well, we all know how that went....they made their decision and it remains so today.

• * 9:4-5 And they gave him threescore and ten pieces of silver out of the house of Baal-berith, wherewith Abimelech hired vain and light persons, which followed him. And he went unto his father's house at Ophrah, and slew his brethren the sons of Jerubbaal, being threescore and ten persons, upon one stone: notwithstanding yet Jotham the youngest son of Jerubbaal was left; for he hid himself.

Abimelech/anti christ went into the house of his father, Gideon/Christ. We believers are the house he will enter, he has entered already. He slays many today with deception and false doctrine and that spiritual slaying is far worse than what will physically happen to the seventy (palm trees/men children/very elect)....during his great tribulation.

Jotham, the youngest son that escaped cursed the men that killed his brothers through a parable. [Judges 9:7-20] In it he said....

• * 9:18 And ye are risen up against my father's house this day, and have slain his sons, threescore and ten persons, upon one stone, and have made Abimelech, the son of his maidservant, king over the men of Shechem, because he is your brother;)
  
  9:24 That the cruelty done to the threescore and ten sons of Jerubbaal might come, and their blood be laid upon Abimelech their brother, which slew them; and upon the men of Shechem, which aided him in the killing of his brethren.

All were killed on one stone! In the future will that literally be in one place or is that "one stone" symbolic of something? They will be slain in the great city, where Christ was crucified...spiritually called Sodom and Egypt. So, the stone is in the great city. As Christ is the Chief Corner Stone, our Rock...Satan is the rock/stone the man child will be slain upon....which are in many different places as the great city is worldwide.

• * Deuteronmy 32:4 He is the Rock, His work is perfect: For all His ways are judgment: A God of truth and without iniquity, Just and right is He.
  
  32:31 For their rock is not as our Rock, Even our enemies themselves being judges

That is the end of the types I have found for the man child, types which demonstrate their destiny. I'm sorry for the length but....it is written.

 

[whirlwind]

Part 9....Final


Consider what is being said in the following verses....



Mark 9:31-32 For He taught His disciples, and said unto them, "The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill Him; and after that He is killed, He shall rise the third day." But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask Him.

10:35-38 And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come unto Him, saying, "Master, we would that Thou shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire." And He said unto them, "What would ye that I should do for you?" They said unto Him, "Grant unto us that we may sit, one on Thy right hand, and the other on Thy left hand, in Thy glory." But Jesus said unto them, "Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?"

10:39-40 And they said unto Him, "We can." And Jesus said unto them, "Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized: But to sit on My right hand and on My left hand is not Mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared."

John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and He will shew you things to come.

John 15:27-16:3 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with Me from the beginning. These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor Me.

John 15:12-13 This is My commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.



He laid down His life literally for us. If we, as He has just commanded, are to love others as He loves us....are we also to literally "lay down (our) life for (our) friends?" Is this part of the "many things" He had to say but we weren't able to "bear them now?"


Is this spiritually dying to self or...more is required? Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by whirlwind
Men won't be tormented at all for they will believe the lies. They will fall for the deception so there is no torment involved...for them. They will have taken the mark of the beast. The tribulation is a time of great deception and those they attempt to deceive (torment) are those that follow God.

I hate to be a voice of opposition here, because you are doing some great work, but I have to disagree with you here. Notice what is said in verse 4 (concerning the FIVE MONTHS of torment):

"They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads" (Revelation 9:4).

The 144,000 (elect) HAVE the SEAL OF GOD on their foreheads, and this clearly states the locusts (devil and his cronies) cannot hurt (torment) the 144,000 or anyone else who has been sealed up to that point (others sealed would be part of the harvest - part of the numberless multitude that have been sealed so far due to the testimony of the 144,000).

Question is; who will the devil be tormenting here if he is not allowed to torment anyone who has been sealed? I think it is safe to say that those who already believe the devil is Almighty God will not be tormented. But that leaves who? I would speculate that those who refuse to worship ANYONE will be targets (i.e. those who reject the gospel of Jesus, but also stand in opposition to the devil’s blasphemous claims......maybe scientists, atheists, agnostics, etc.). This is speculation, but one thing is certain; those with the seal of God on their foreheads WILL NOT be tormented. These consist of the elect (144,000), and those who heard the Gospel proclaimed by the elect and BELIEVED (part of the numberless multitude). Of course, we know that eventually, later on, when the Four Angels are loosed - those 'who are bound at the great river Euphrates' when the Sixth Trumpet sounds(Revelation 9:13-21), the devil will torment the saints (many will be killed). But during the FIVE MONTH period (Fifth Trumpet), he cannot.

Don’t mean to be a party pooper, but you know I have to say something :D.

 

[Cornelius]

Moses is a type of Christ.

......and Christ is THE man child, which lives IN us: So Moses is a type of man child too.

 

[Cornelius]

Originally posted by whirlwind
Men won't be tormented at all for they will believe the lies. They will fall for the deception so there is no torment involved...for them. They will have taken the mark of the beast. The tribulation is a time of great deception and those they attempt to deceive (torment) are those that follow God.

I hate to be a voice of opposition here, because you are doing some great work, but I have to disagree with you here. Notice what is said in verse 4 (concerning the FIVE MONTHS of torment):

"They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads" (Revelation 9:4).

The 144,000 (elect) HAVE the SEAL OF GOD on their foreheads, and this clearly states the locusts (devil and his cronies) cannot hurt (torment) the 144,000 or anyone else who has been sealed up to that point (others sealed would be part of the harvest - part of the numberless multitude that have been sealed so far due to the testimony of the 144,000).

Question is; who will the devil be tormenting here if he is not allowed to torment anyone who has been sealed? I think it is safe to say that those who already believe the devil is Almighty God will not be tormented. But that leaves who? I would speculate that those who refuse to worship ANYONE will be targets (i.e. those who reject the gospel of Jesus, but also stand in opposition to the devil’s blasphemous claims......maybe scientists, atheists, agnostics, etc.). This is speculation, but one thing is certain; those with the seal of God on their foreheads WILL NOT be tormented. These consist of the elect (144,000), and those who heard the Gospel proclaimed by the elect and BELIEVED (part of the numberless multitude). Of course, we know that eventually, later on, when the Four Angels are loosed - those 'who are bound at the great river Euphrates' when the Sixth Trumpet sounds(Revelation 9:13-21), the devil will torment the saints (many will be killed). But during the FIVE MONTH period (Fifth Trumpet), he cannot.

Don’t mean to be a party pooper, but you know I have to say something :D.

That is correct.

Just something about "dying to self" and dying during the Tribulation :

First, we know 1Co 15:50....... that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Spiritually speaking, the man child or first fruits have truly "died to self" . Meaning their flesh does not rule them anymore. They have indeed overcome the flesh."To he who overcometh........." So that is why the enemy cannot hurt them , nor kill them. They have "died" and cannot be killed again. They now live in Psalm 91 .The "secret place" being Christ (the LIVING Word)

Secondly , most Christians will not die to self before the Tribulation and many will enter the Kingdom through physical death. The flesh must die.

So we do have an opportunity to lay down this life willingly and in God's eyes, that counts as a real death.That will protect us during the tribulation.

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by Cornelius
Spiritually speaking, the man child or first fruits have truly "died to self" . Meaning their flesh does not rule them anymore. They have indeed overcome the flesh."To he who overcometh........."

Very true, and the presence and work of the Spirit within the heart is key. He brings victory to those who live by faith. Also, the victory which the Spirit brings is not man-made (our doing), and is not merely the avoidance of sin. When the Spirit brings victory, the carnal nature is completely subdued (removed), and the flesh no longer rules. The 144,000 will be the FIRST to experience this transformation (first to be sealed - firstfruits).

"For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God." ( Romans 8:13,14)

"Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything." ( James 1:2-4)

"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God." ( Matthew 5:8)

 

[Cornelius]

Originally posted by Cornelius
Spiritually speaking, the man child or first fruits have truly "died to self" . Meaning their flesh does not rule them anymore. They have indeed overcome the flesh."To he who overcometh........."

Very true, and the presence and work of the Spirit within the heart is key. He brings victory to those who live by faith. Also, the victory which the Spirit brings is not man-made (our doing), and is not merely the avoidance of sin. When the Spirit brings victory, the carnal nature is completely subdued (removed), and the flesh no longer rules. The 144,000 will be the FIRST to experience this transformation (first to be sealed - firstfruits).

"For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God." ( Romans 8:13,14)

"Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything." ( James 1:2-4)

"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God." ( Matthew 5:8)

Oh brother, you have no idea how your posts are blessing me The truth is so uplifting and so rare on forums. Bless you !!!

You wrote:

He brings victory to those who live by faith.

I wanted to mention this regarding the manifestation of Christ, and now you have touched on it. We have to come back to this scripture if we want to talk about the manifestation of Christ in us:

Heb 11:6 and without faith it is impossible to be well-pleasing unto him; for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that seek after him.

So we start with ....faith. Faith in the done works of the cross.1Co 1:18 For the word of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us who are saved it is the power of God.


Why is the word of the cross the power of God? Because its there that "it is finished" happened.Its there that we were saved from the WHOLE curse.From sickness, death, sin, lack, need etc. Its at the cross where Jesus did it all. Now.........through faith........we have to accept that fact.

When I realized that most people have faith in a future event, I saw that we actually first have to have faith in a past event (Peter wrote, by His stripes ye WERE healed) before the event will manifest in the future.

 

[Cornelius]

The man child fully manifests Christ, because they have fully believed the gospel, that everything indeed were done at the cross.

At the cross they were perfected ( by faith, not manifestation..until manifestation )at the cross,God met ALL their needs.They have totally stopped relying on the arm of the flesh to save them in any situation,they have faith that God can and will save them in and out of everything.

They are walking in His health and healing, they are walking in His protection, they are walking in His supply, they are indeed walking in His LIFE (zoe) They have become the Word. (in their mouth is no lie) They have followed the Lamb wherever He goeth (to death to self, they have taken up their cross daily) They have walked in HIs perfection by faith, before they saw it my manifestation.They accepted the gospel without questioning it, nor changing it. The did not mix their doctrine with the doctrine of men, they are virgins in the truth.

 

[whirlwind]

Originally posted by whirlwind
Men won't be tormented at all for they will believe the lies. They will fall for the deception so there is no torment involved...for them. They will have taken the mark of the beast. The tribulation is a time of great deception and those they attempt to deceive (torment) are those that follow God.

I hate to be a voice of opposition here, because you are doing some great work, but I have to disagree with you here. Notice what is said in verse 4 (concerning the FIVE MONTHS of torment):

I never mind a "voice of opposition" from one that loves His Word.

"They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads" (Revelation 9:4).

The 144,000 (elect) HAVE the SEAL OF GOD on their foreheads, and this clearly states the locusts (devil and his cronies) cannot hurt (torment) the 144,000 or anyone else who has been sealed up to that point (others sealed would be part of the harvest - part of the numberless multitude that have been sealed so far due to the testimony of the 144,000).

Torment and harm are two different words. They harm those that believe their lies as it causes spiritual death. They torment those that do have the seal of God trying to make them also believe in the fake. That is the tribulation. Consider too that the first group of 144,000 don't go into the tribulation as sealed individuals....they must BE SEALED before the end can begin. It isn't those 144,000 giving the testimony but they are those it is being given to...by the man child.

• * Revelation 7:2-3 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, "Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

They MUST be sealed before the end. They are not those witnessing but are those being witnessed to. Then, we have the other group of 144,000 [Revelation 14:1]. As they are "virgins" I believe they are those that witness to the others and are therefore....the man child and the witnesses.

Question is; who will the devil be tormenting here if he is not allowed to torment anyone who has been sealed? I think it is safe to say that those who already believe the devil is Almighty God will not be tormented. But that leaves who? I would speculate that those who refuse to worship ANYONE will be targets (i.e. those who reject the gospel of Jesus, but also stand in opposition to the devil’s blasphemous claims......maybe scientists, atheists, agnostics, etc.). This is speculation, but one thing is certain; those with the seal of God on their foreheads WILL NOT be tormented. These consist of the elect (144,000), and those who heard the Gospel proclaimed by the elect and BELIEVED (part of the numberless multitude). Of course, we know that eventually, later on, when the Four Angels are loosed - those 'who are bound at the great river Euphrates' when the Sixth Trumpet sounds(Revelation 9:13-21), the devil will torment the saints (many will be killed). But during the FIVE MONTH period (Fifth Trumpet), he cannot.

Don’t mean to be a party pooper, but you know I have to say something :D.

Those that are sealed to His truth won't be harmed spiritually but...they will be tormented. After all, he already has the others. You don't go to battle with those on your side. It is the saints he "went to make war with...which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." [Revelation 12:17]

• * Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The sixth trumpet IS the five month period. Satan's tribulation when he and is army come to spiritually deceive the world. And..."they slay the third part of men." How do they "slay" them?

• * Revelation 9:18-19 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads; and with them they do hurt.

They hurt, "harm," (not torment) those without the seal by spiritually killing them with the lies (issued from their mouth) of the serpent. They are killed by the false teachers....the tail.

Notice that they spiritually kill 1/3. Those are they that believed his deception. The others remaining that didn't repent of their evil were already lost. He didn't have to deceive them. They are the murderers, sorcerers (drug dealers), fornicators and thieves that don't repent.