The mess that OSAS theology made

[thessalonian]

Do you think I understood this however when my father abandoned our family and my step-father sexually abused me? Do you think I understood the word of God then? What comfort does "thou shalt honour thy mother and father," bring in those times of pain?

You have gone through much pain and I pray for your healing. The commandments however are not for comfort. They are a guide to how we are to treat others. They are a basis beyond which we must strive. They are a minimum of love that God's grace will take us beyond. Unfortunately many do not listen to them and that is the case in your situation.

 

[John the Baptist]

[26] He said to him, "What is written in the law? How do you read?"
[27] And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself."
[28] And he said to him, "You have answered right; do this, and you will live."

The after this Jesus tells the story of the good samaritan. What the Lawyer did was to sum of the ten commanndments. The first three are love of God and the last 7 are love of neighbor (not separated from loving God). Can one love their neighbor if they are stealing from him, killing him, taking his wife, dishonoring his parents etc. etc. The 10 commandments are not about guilt trips from God's point of view. They are about love.
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John here: Love??? Leaving out the forth commandment, huh? Revelation 17:1-5's Hog/wash at best! (see 2 Peter 2:20-22) Yet, what you stated that the lawyer did was sum up the [ten commandments]? Which way is it, 9 or 10? See 2 Corinthians 4:2 Then you say to separate them is serious error. But you seem to not know just how serious? Read the last few verses of Revelation22:18-19 Not serious, but is fatal error!
Yet, that is exactly what the catholic catechism has done!
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To separate them from love is a serious error. The 10 commandments are to convict the sinner who does not love God and his neighbor and motivate him to obedience. If he feels guilty it is probably because he is.

Blessings
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"Peter you are my rock, and on this Rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail. Matt 16:18

Prov 18
[17] He who states his case first seems right,

 

[thessalonian]

What has the Catechism done John? Added to the book of Revelations? You do realize that John wrote that about his book don't you. Not that I would recommend adding to any other book in the Bible, but that is not what the CCC does anyway except to an outsider who is filled with prejudice. Your rather incoherent.

So you love you neighbor by taking his wife John? Surely you can see this isn't love.

 

[thessalonian]

John,

While we're on giving eachother reading assignments here are a few I would like you to read.

John 5:39
John 6:66
Jude 1:11
Numb 16 pay attention to v. 3
Num 12 1-15
John 4:24
1 Tim 3:15
Matt 16:15-19
John 6 from v. 35 on.
John 20:19-21

For starters.

Blessings bud. :-D

 

[John the Baptist]

What has the Catechism done John? Added to the book of Revelations? You do realize that John wrote that about his book don't you.

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Come on youngin, yea ain't talking to your 'blind' Hebrews 5 'milkfed' ones on this thread! The one 'inspired verse' was even from your 'suposed' pope Peter in 2 Peter 2:20-22!

And the last page of Revelations Truth of adding to or removing anything from Gods Word, finds that the person [or fold will have their name or names removed from the lambs book of life] (Revelation 2:5 is the fold) is from a God that Never Changes, They are the same YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND FOREVER! You know Eternal Covenant! Hebrews 13:20

So we see in Christs Word in Ecclesiastes 3:14 the same truth that John penned, "I KNOW THAT, WHATSOEVER GOD DOETH, (or speaks) IT SHALL BE FOREVER: NOTHING CAN BE PUT TO IT, NOR ANYTHING TAKEN FROM IT.." See the K.J. version.
---John
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Not that I would recommend adding to any other book in the Bible, but that is not what the CCC does anyway except to an outsider who is filled with prejudice. Your rather incoherent.

So you love you neighbor by taking his wife John? Surely you can see this isn't love.

*****
incoherent? What on earth does the above couple of sentence mean?? :o :o
---John
*****

 

[thessalonian]

God bless you john. :D

 

[Klee shay]

Yes is the answer to your question that. 'is anything that I said lacking truth' See 2 Corinthians 3:3 in the K.J. (N.T.)

2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

At what stage have I not spoken about the Spirit being the living God rather than just the scriptures (written in ink)? 2 Corinthians 3:3 is what I live by and it is certainly what I speak. I find it hard to believe that you find my sentiments lacking this vital truth. Everything I know of Christ hangs off His living Spirit.

This doctrine of O.S.A.S. not only kills, rapes, and is a satanic doctrine of satan that would even save your step father, but it is far the worse than murder, by promising them life while living in the sin, just by teaching OSAS.

And this is the beauty of the new creation Christ has wrought in me. I hope that my step-father is saved one day. Luke 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentence. Or this Luke 15:10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

I know my step-fathers actions were satanic and I live by the concept of OSAS theology which has wrought a new creation in me through Christ. From your outside perspective you cast them in the same lot; yet I have lived the experience that they are two very different things. A person who doesn't love Christ is not going to pursue religion in any way, shape or form. No matter how hard they try to put the sheeps clothing on; it's going to itch and scratch and at some stage they will show their true form.

by promising them life while living in the sin, just by teaching OSAS.

Matthew 5:43-45 Ye have heard that is hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Jesus promises all eternal life and this promise will continue until his return and judgement will be made upon all sinners. Someone who seeks God in a doctrine/theology I may not condone myself is still seeking God. If I call them God's enemies and despise them; I become a child of the enemy and not of God. I will tell every sinner that Jesus offers eternal life for those who LOVE him and accept him as their saviour. I have every confidence after that, Jesus will do the rest.

Being so afraid that one can lose their salvation; how can you enjoy the living Spirit of God? I don't love God so he can give me eternal life. I love God because everything I have seen from him and experienced according to His will is Good. Everything I have seen of mankind is evil and inherently self-centered. Even my best intentions are wrought with self-interest. Only when I focus on God do I see perfection in all things.

If you're really afriad for people losing their souls who believe in OSAS theology, then pray for them. Love them too...but don't despise them or their unrighteous theology...for there lies a trap from the enemy and many have fallen before. You are a complete work in God and not just in the knowledge of the scriptures.

 

[Jay T]

It isn't man who's worthy of our savior. It is simply God's love for us that makes us worthy. None of us deserves His love. So it's all about who God is, not about who we are.

And we as Christians show our gratitude...by ignoring, what He tell us to do ...WOW !

For example: the Bible verse.....
Mark 2:27 "And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath"
God made the sabbath for...man, yet man, rejects God gift of rest.

God tell us to rest on the sabbath day....yet man, says ..NO!

 

[Solo]

It isn't man who's worthy of our savior. It is simply God's love for us that makes us worthy. None of us deserves His love. So it's all about who God is, not about who we are.

And we as Christians show our gratitude...by ignoring, what He tell us to do ...WOW !

For example: the Bible verse.....
Mark 2:27 "And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath"
God made the sabbath for...man, yet man, rejects God gift of rest.

God tell us to rest on the sabbath day....yet man, says ..NO!

God's rest is for man, not for God, and man was not made to subject to this rest. That rest is in Jesus Christ whereby believers cease from their sinful works in the flesh, and they live walking in the Spirit doing the works of God seven days a week.

 

[John the Baptist]

God's rest is for man, not for God, and man was not made to subject to this rest. That rest is in Jesus Christ whereby believers cease from their sinful works in the flesh, and they live walking in the Spirit doing the works of God seven days a week.
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Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. 1 John 3:9-10

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John here: What kind of 'tower of babbling' is that??? (Genesis 11:7-9) Even 1/2 of the Everlasting Gospel! 1 John 5:16-17 But who here knows what that 'Inspiration' means, huh? And these O.S.A.S programed ones do not even hear the Lord 'striving' with them (Genesis 6:3) to submit to His Eternal Covenant CONDITIONS! Acts 5:32 :

But when God finished His work of creation. Man was the last thing being created before God was finished. The seventh day we see where God Set Aside this Day, And He Blessed the Day & He told us that it was for Holy Use. He SANCTIFIED the Day] . This Memorial of His Creation would always be special, to Him at least? Revelation 1:10 still sees it as so!! (Webster says to make Holy) God says in Psalms 135:13 "Thy Name, O Lord endureth for ever; and thy memorial, O Lord, throughout all generations."

One might ask their self what Adam and Eve's first sermon might had been? The first day after their creation, on God's Holy Lord's DAY. But regardless, we can find over in Isaiah 58:12-14 some good verses to see what God calls His Holy Day. (verse 13 "My Holy Day") Compare Revelation 1:10 & Mark 2:27-28

Verse 12 says:
"And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and shall be called, the repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in."

Compare Daniel 7:25 for the reason why this was to be, & you can see in Exodus 16:4-5 & that of Exodus 16:26-28, that this same devil & his desired Genesis 4:7 agents had always attacked the Lord's Special day! And the reason for that was that God tested His creation on only this one test, to see if they were obedient to His whole ten Commandment Eternal Covenant! See James 2:8-12!

The Eternal Everlasting Covenant can be seen in Hebrews 13:20, and the required by the Godhead, of repeated history in Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 & Ecclesiastes 3:15 . And our Land of Canaan?? Are we not looking to enter there very soon?? Well, take a 'peek' at what their test was & ask yourself what God told us in the Eccl. verses what He again will require us to be tested on before we go home to our land of Canaan? See the same of Exodus 16:35 for what the Mark of the Beast will be!

Verse 13:
"If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on My Holy Day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the Holy of the Lord, Honorable; and shalt honor Him, not doing thin own ways, nor finding thin own pleasure, nor speaking thin own words:" . Anything that can be done on other days of the week, that is for personal gain or non/spiritual pleasure, or reading non spiritual books of pleasure, or news papers including T.V. and the such, are prohibited by God. (for me anyway)

Every day shop talk and the likes also. This can all be done on other days. Christ came to Magnify His Covenant and make it Honorable! See Isaiah 42:21 The world has always gone the devils way of no law, or the liberal or the opposite of liberal.. letter of the law. This Christ came to balance out & to 'magnify' and make honorable. You remember, hate is in the end murder & lusting after a woman in the end (see James 1:15) is adultery.

[IF]??? That is up to us, huh?? As Cain brought a fruit sacrifice for his offering to the Lord, so are we free to disobey and not turn our foot from Gods ... "MY HOLY DAY".

Verse 14 in part: "Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; ..." This is conditional as is eternal life! Some say that there are no conditions! But there will be no one saved who will not be Born Again! John 3:3 Before mankind can be desiring to Worship God completely, he need to be reborn with the Eternal Covenant of God in his Heart & Mind! 2 Corinthians 3:3 & Hebrews 10:15-16

We need to understand that these works of Obedience do not save a single soul, only by accepting the Covenant Conditions of Christ 'Epistle' does one now truly Love the Master! And then we obey because of that recreated Born Again Love! Acts 5:32 finds the only ones saved!

 

[Jay T]

I wonder why OSAS theology built up

All I know is that many church goers who believe this theology are luke warm Christians. They don't care about their walk with the Lord: they believe they are saved no matter what they do or don't do.


It's mind boggling to me that the giving of false sense of security doesn't bother OSAS supporters.

You and I had nothing to say about our coming into this world, BUT....how and where we spend eternity is entirely in our hands, and depends wholly upon our own choice.

If you choose to spend eternity in God's everlasting Kingdom, then you must bring your life into harmony with God's ways, with his ideals and standards, with His Laws ...and pattern of living.

For He will not change His Kingdom to suit your convenience or comform to your ideas.

His is a Kingdom of Righteousness (Right-doing) and Peace and Joy.
If you want to live in God's Kingdom, you must be Righteous (Yourself), at peace with God and man.

The Prophet Isaiah states the matter very clearly and leaves no one in doubt regarding who will make the change.
He says: "Seek the Lord while he may be found, call upon him while he is near...let the wicked forsake his way, and the UNrighteous man his thoughts.....FOR MY THOUGHTS ARE NOT YOUR THOUGHTS, NEITHER ARE YOUR WAYS MY WAYS, SAYS THE LORD.
FOR AS THE HEAVENS ARE HIGHER THAN THE EARTH, SO ARE MY WAYS HIGHER THAN YOUR WAYS, AND MY THOUGHTS HIGHER THAN YOUR THOUGHTS", (Isaiah 55:8,9)

Such is the difference between God's eternal Knigdom and the Kingdoms of this world.
Here on this earth man's ideas and ways prevail, BUT over there God's thoughts and standards hold absolute sway.
If you don't like them, then you will not be there.
For God does not want you there in His everlasting Kingdom UNLESS you want to be thereand are willing to conform your life in EVERY detail to His ways and wishes, to His pattern of noble living.
That is it, as far as His Kingdom is concerned, and he says in effect: Take it or leave it !

There will be no compulsion, no coercion, no undue persuasion, no force of any kind.
There will be no more compromising, or coddling.
It is this or else. God is through with sin and sinners.
He has set a day when sin and those who hang onto their sins will be eradicated and destroyed wherever it may be found.
WHY ?
God has, for thousands of years, felt the pain and sufferings of people, who have been effected by sin and its consequences.
He has felt the starvation of little children....
He has felt the pain and suffering of those people who died under the terrible diseases, such as cancer, Black Plague, etc.
He has felt the pain of people, who have lost loved ones, through wars...accidents....etc.

God knows the kinds of people He wants with him throughout all eternity in His Kingdom of Peace and Joy, where no more sin, sickness or sorrow will be found.

As God looks down upon this world of ours, He does not see may different religions or faiths by which men live. He does not see even one of them.....Christianity divided as it is into many different sects, groups, or denominations.
This division among the Christian people did not originate with God. It is not recognized in the scriptures.
For if we read in Psalms 14:....we come to the conclusion that in God's sight there are in the world but 2 classes of people.
Verse 2 says....."The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God".

"Here is the patience of the saints...here are they that keep the commandments of God, and have the faith of Jesus", (Revelation 14:12)