The mess that OSAS theology made

[John the Baptist]

But, surely our love for God would be displayed by the keeping of the first four commandments? How could it not be? I simply cannot understand the "head acknowledgement of loving God versus the physical action acknowledgement of loving God" sort of mentality we have on this thread. What IS wrong in actually displaying our love for God to others by our actions? Do you feel that I'm just not catching on because I don't have the Spirit?

********
Hay friend, there are 'folds' that just do not do as Christ said to do in Matthew 4:4 & 2 Timothy 3:16! These are N.T. verses that mean nothing to most of them. (all others are reachable) But these ones are like some Catholic majorities who believe that the pope has the last say over the gospel. Both class are blind! One class hardly ever reads the Word, and the other fold? The only thing that they read is parts of the N.T.

Notice Christ's Words 'again' in Luke 16:31 N.T. about one being raised from the dead, which He was!"And He said unto him, If they will not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."

---John

 

[Klee shay]

What IS wrong in actually displaying our love for God to others by our actions?

I didn't say it was wrong? How easy is it to display love than feel it though? I'm married to a man that was raised like that; and today it is a real challenge for him to actually love Christ without feeling like he has to do something for him in order to prove it.

The danger is not in the doing though - it's all in the focus. If you're focused on proving your worth to God or your love for him; then the enemy knows that's a weak spot. Only when you're focused on the fact that CHRIST LOVES YOU and you trust in that love above all else, can the enemy NOT get a foothold in a believer.

The love we give out is faulty, liable to temptation. Only the love Christ gives out however is flawless.

Do you feel that I'm just not catching on because I don't have the Spirit?

Of course not. Firstly, I am no righteous judge of who possesses the Spirit or not - only Christ is righteous. And secondly; the walk you have with Christ is HIS WORK. Although I may not understand or comprehend where he is taking you at present, that does not make Christ absent from you. If I were to think like that, then it means Christ is absent from me - for he works in everyone who believes.

Your not catching on (using your point of reference for illustration) is no distinction of whether you carry the Holy Spirit or not. It only means Christ is still working in you, as he is working in me.

This is where the enemy loves to get us. While we're so focused on finding the devil in others; we take our focus off Christ who is present in absolutely everyone who believes. It doesn't matter if their faith is weak or strong. When somone believes in Christ he does not make it a practice of being absent from them. It may appear like it; but he works when it is time to work and he doesn't interfere when it is time for a person to make their own choice, and learn some tough lessons in life about going without Christ. :wink:

You are on the same journey as me Sput - with Christ. :D

 

[Klee shay]

But, surely our love for God would be displayed by the keeping of the first four commandments? How could it not be?

Are you believing that Christ was incorrect when he did not make these four commandments, the two greatest commands for mankind to follow as Christ's example to follow God's will?

Why do you think Jesus made loving God and your neighbour greater commandments than any of the ten previously? Was he lying to men?

 

[SputnikBoy]

But, surely our love for God would be displayed by the keeping of the first four commandments? How could it not be?

Are you believing that Christ was incorrect when he did not make these four commandments, the two greatest commands for mankind to follow as Christ's example to follow God's will?

Why do you think Jesus made loving God and your neighbour greater commandments than any of the ten previously? Was he lying to men?

Thanks for the gentle response in your previous post, Klee shay. No, Jesus was not lying to men but He was not telling them anything new either. We find in Deuteronomy 6:5, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength."

We also find in Leviticus 19:18, "Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against any of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord."

Interestingly, Jeremiah 31:33-34 tells us, "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the Lord. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God and they will be my people."

Why is it that we only apply these principles to NT Christians as if we're a priviledged breed when they are stated also in the OT?

 

[farley]

nik,

Your response to Klee-Shay, brings a couple of questions to mind.

I seem to recall you (I believe it was you) saying that not all of the law was done away with by Christ's sacrifice. If this is true, do you have BCV supporting this position?

And, in my view all of the Ten Commandments have been readopted in the NT, except one, with most being even stricter than those in the OT.

In your view, do you feel that where the NT has readopted some of the OT law, means, in effect, that these OT laws were, then, never done away with?

In Christ,

farley

 

[Merry Menagerie]

[quote="Merry Menagerie":497a9]And not one mention of Jesus in that! Not one!

Good luck at getting yourself to heaven their Jay T - better hope you have remembered EVERY SINGLE ITTY BITTY sin you've committed and repented from it all or you're doomed my friend! Good luck buddy

OK, let's talk about what Jesus said, as a 'condition', to having eternal life, shall we ?
Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

And, in Revelation 22:14....we find the Bible confirms exactly what He said.....
Revelation 22:14 "Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city".

Now, we don't base our whole theology on just these few Bible verses, as we must take into consideration, 'EVERYTHING' else, written in scripture.

But, lets' not ignore what Jesus did say either.[/quote:497a9]

And guess what - NONE OF US can do any of the above! So what do we do? If we cannot keep the commandments perfectly (cos remember if you break one you break them all) then how are we to be 'seen' as doing his commandments if we cannot do them?

Think about this for a while before posting - it's the important part of salvation ;)

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Jesus Christ wants people to obey every single one of them, and He has promised to help us, in doing so

Yes and he helps us by showing the value of LOVING God and each other as we LOVE ourselves. This is why the two greatest commands Christ gave us to follow were not any of the ten commandments.

He did this because this is how he lived and how he portrayed his father's will. God loves us and he wants us to love him in return and each other. When we can do this - THEN WE CAN OBEY THE TEN COMMANDMENTS through the Spirit and truth Christ lived.

You must love God in order to obey him. You must love your neighbour if you are to resist hate and abomination to the creation of life. By simply teaching obedience to the ten commandments you miss the order Christ gave us to ensure His success. The enemy loves people to show their love for God through their obedience to merely the ten commandments; for then they go into spiritual warfare against him unprepared. They aren't using love to defeat him; they are using obedience to prove their love to God. What an easy snare.

[quote:7f1ad]Satan wants people to break any or all the 10 commandments (Revelation 12:17).

Where is the challenge in that for someone as cunning and as lethal as Satan? Why human flesh will guarantee that at some point; someone will break at least one of the ten commandments. The challenge for the enemy is to attack God's love - for that is the Lord's stronghold. If he can take the focus off God's love and put the responsibility back onto the shoulders of man (as he did to Adam) to be equal to God's understanding; then we will inevitably fail and fall away from the stronghold.

In this vessel of flesh we cannot possibly fathom the love of God or the understanding of God. The only example we have to go by is that of a Son who loved his Father so much he was willing to be crucified by the enemy; for all the religious world to see and participate in. Every day we witness that sacrifice; and mankind will for the rest of our numbered days. It was done in love, for love; to show the goodness and forgiveness of God to his children.

That is the enemy's target! The only way he can ensure a falling away from God is if he can take the focus off the love Christ cautioned us to maintain. I believe the only way we can surely follow any of the ten commandments, is to make sure we love God above all else and love each other as we love ourselves. Which also means we have to let Christ remind us of how to love oursleves sometimes too - for even the enemy can plague us with self doubt.

OSAS is about the possibility of God's love to surpass the stronghold of the enemy; in a world of unrighteous activities. Christ saves despite the snares the enemy would led us into believing we brought upon ourselves. If we are to escape, we must first believe in the two greatest commandments of all others involving *LOVE*.

Is it in the enemy's interests for God's believers to recognise that however? :wink:[/quote:7f1ad]

GREAT POST!!! Yes - it's about God's love...Satan will attack the love of God not our ability to keep commandments - he already knows we fail that that one ;)

But the love of God isn't of this flesh - it's not us. The love part isn't 'us' doing it either..."For the Love of God is shed abroad in our hearts BY THE HOLY GHOST". That's why he attacks the love because it's not of the flesh but of the spirit.

Great post!

 

[Heidi]

[quote="Klee shay":c727c]

Jesus Christ wants people to obey every single one of them, and He has promised to help us, in doing so

Yes and he helps us by showing the value of LOVING God and each other as we LOVE ourselves. This is why the two greatest commands Christ gave us to follow were not any of the ten commandments.

He did this because this is how he lived and how he portrayed his father's will. God loves us and he wants us to love him in return and each other. When we can do this - THEN WE CAN OBEY THE TEN COMMANDMENTS through the Spirit and truth Christ lived.

You must love God in order to obey him. You must love your neighbour if you are to resist hate and abomination to the creation of life. By simply teaching obedience to the ten commandments you miss the order Christ gave us to ensure His success. The enemy loves people to show their love for God through their obedience to merely the ten commandments; for then they go into spiritual warfare against him unprepared. They aren't using love to defeat him; they are using obedience to prove their love to God. What an easy snare.

[quote:c727c]Satan wants people to break any or all the 10 commandments (Revelation 12:17).

Where is the challenge in that for someone as cunning and as lethal as Satan? Why human flesh will guarantee that at some point; someone will break at least one of the ten commandments. The challenge for the enemy is to attack God's love - for that is the Lord's stronghold. If he can take the focus off God's love and put the responsibility back onto the shoulders of man (as he did to Adam) to be equal to God's understanding; then we will inevitably fail and fall away from the stronghold.

In this vessel of flesh we cannot possibly fathom the love of God or the understanding of God. The only example we have to go by is that of a Son who loved his Father so much he was willing to be crucified by the enemy; for all the religious world to see and participate in. Every day we witness that sacrifice; and mankind will for the rest of our numbered days. It was done in love, for love; to show the goodness and forgiveness of God to his children.

That is the enemy's target! The only way he can ensure a falling away from God is if he can take the focus off the love Christ cautioned us to maintain. I believe the only way we can surely follow any of the ten commandments, is to make sure we love God above all else and love each other as we love ourselves. Which also means we have to let Christ remind us of how to love oursleves sometimes too - for even the enemy can plague us with self doubt.

OSAS is about the possibility of God's love to surpass the stronghold of the enemy; in a world of unrighteous activities. Christ saves despite the snares the enemy would led us into believing we brought upon ourselves. If we are to escape, we must first believe in the two greatest commandments of all others involving *LOVE*.

Is it in the enemy's interests for God's believers to recognise that however? :wink:[/quote:c727c]

GREAT POST!!! Yes - it's about God's love...Satan will attack the love of God not our ability to keep commandments - he already knows we fail that that one ;)

But the love of God isn't of this flesh - it's not us. The love part isn't 'us' doing it either..."For the Love of God is shed abroad in our hearts BY THE HOLY GHOST". That's why he attacks the love because it's not of the flesh but of the spirit.

Great post![/quote:c727c]

I love your posts, Merry. They put legalists to shame. It's all about what God does for us, not about how great we are.

 

[Klee shay]

Why is it that we only apply these principles to NT Christians as if we're a priviledged breed when they are stated also in the OT?

I see where you're coming from. I believe we are extremely priviledged to be in the time and place we are. If it weren't for our forefathers mistakes and acts of fatih (Jew & Gentile) would there be a Jesus Christ to believe in today?

John 20:29 "Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed."

We are in the right time for Christ, to follow in our forefather's footsteps and either believe or not believe. Now in the New Testiment with the New Covernant; we are blessed by the sacrifice of Christ.

This is a good thing. :D

No, Jesus was not lying to men but He was not telling them anything new either.

Scripturally speaking, no. In living truth however - well, that makes all the difference. The word of God to men in the form of the ten commandments, was between God and man - an imperfect vessel. The word of God to men in the form of his son however; well that's flawless and perfect to bring about the Kingdom of God.

When you look at the OT you see God speaking to his corruptible children. When you look at the NT however, you see God speaking through his incorruptible son for the sake of mankind. Do you see how that changes the context of what was contained in the OT and NT? Christ may not have said anything new scripturally - but he spoke the order in which we should apply our love and then our obedience; to maintain the unity of his spiritual body on earth. :D

 

[Klee shay]

But the love of God isn't of this flesh - it's not us.

I agree - the love we emenate is God's love. The spirit we were given at birth was a gift from God however - that part remains uniquely ours'. :D

It is best housed in the greatest loving, forgiving and merciful vessel of them all however - the body of Christ.

 

[John the Baptist]

But, surely our love for God would be displayed by the keeping of the first four commandments? How could it not be?

Are you believing that Christ was incorrect when he did not make these four commandments, the two greatest commands for mankind to follow as Christ's example to follow God's will?

Why do you think Jesus made loving God and your neighbour greater commandments than any of the ten previously? Was he lying to men?

******
This question surely call's for an answer to your question. If you were Peter & had a 3 time vision from God, what would be your question, would you ask God if He was lying?? Both your question & Peter's vision is N.T. WORD by the way.

So, seeing that you do not know what I am talking about, let me tell you the answer to both questions! Peter knew what God said, but Peter did not yet then know what God meant!!! (got that?)

OK: Your question shows that as Peter did not know, neither do you know what God (Jesus the Word) said when He taught, or as you say.. 'made loving God and your neighbor greater than any of the ten previously?' (but you best see Christ the WORD in James 2:8-12 before we continue on!)

One thing that Peter knew, was that the Godhead never changes. The thing that the Word states as truth is truth! So, Peter knew that it was he that, as you, that is not reading right the Word of God correctly.

The Everlasting Covenant is the 'epistle' of Christ. That means that the ten commandments are the LETTER of the Godheads character! (2 Corinthians 3:3) The Letter of the Godhead (Epistle) is love. GOD IS LOVE! The eternal Covenant of the Godhead is Love.

The New Birth makes the Eternal Covenant (Hebrews 13:20) the new Covenant by placing it in ones MIND & HEART! Hebrews 10:15-16 & Hebrews 8:10.

Mankind of the O.T. had a real problem understanding this. (it seems that they are not alone!) In Isaiah 42:21 the Word tell's us that Christ came to 'magnify' the Law and make it honorable'. And what do you want to do with it????

Christ stated that all the law hung on these two commandments. (Matthew 22:40, and 2 John 2:6-that is inclusive of all scripture) That of putting God FIRST and loving man second. And you 'still' ask what that means??? The attorney asks what is the great commandment, and Christ told him the same bottom line message! Matthew 22:35-40. How many tables of stone were there? Two! If one wants to be right with God, they only need to study Isaiah 8:20 for the bottom line 'three time Peter Vision Truth'!

It tell's of the LETTER or 'Epistle of Christ' 'penned' by Holy men of God as they wrote the bible. It is God's Christ/man TESTIMONY for mankind, they had a part in this! All 66 books are required for knowing truth. 2 Timothy 3:16 If it does not add up to this testimony of inspired writings of the Word (Epistle) of Christ, then they are not to be considered as truth! Yet remember, all of these men penned it as they verbally saw it. That is why the 4 Gospels are not all alike. This is why Peter understood that he did not understand the Vision from God. He said, not so Lord! He was questioning himself, his understanding, not God Words!

OK: Isaiah 8:20 tell us, and starts with the First Great Commandment now, 'To the Law' ... . It takes both the Law & Testimony of God's Word to test all Truth by. If they do not go along with this??? It is because there in no light or Truth in them! Compare 1 John 2:4. Yet, remember, as you said.. (almost :wink: ) GOD IS LOVE! So surely any Born Again one, must believe that the very EPISTLE of CHRIST IS LOVE??? (again 2 Corinthians 3:3)

I suggest that if you Love God as you claim, that you best change your diet as He requires. See Matthew 4:4 again! (and a few others on this thread)

---John

 

[Klee shay]

This question surely call's for an answer to your question. If you were Peter & had a 3 time vision from God, what would be your question, would you ask God if He was lying?? Both your question & Peter's vision is N.T. WORD by the way.

That's not an answer to my question John, that's a "rewording" and getting me to answer a different question. God has given me a vision and that is of Jesus Christ. He is the WORD both in the NT and the OT.

God has stopped dealing with Man directly. That job now lays in the hands of the living Jesus Christ. When he said to put God first above all others and love your neighbour as yourself...he was giving us the right motivation in order to obey with.

So, seeing that you do not know what I am talking about, let me tell you the answer to both questions! Peter knew what God said, but Peter did not yet then know what God meant!!! (got that?)

While you point out the hindsight Peter learned from later; what hindsight are you missing? Is not the entire bible a letter of hindsight written to mankind as an example? Here is God, here is Jesus Christ, here is the Holy Spirit, now here is the example of love I want you to experience if you choose to follow me.

One thing that Peter knew, was that the Godhead never changes. The thing that the Word states as truth is truth! So, Peter knew that it was he that, as you, that is not reading right the Word of God correctly.

You got me there John. Alas but I am a humble servant with the desire to learn and thankfully I have a forgiving master. Can you lay claim to maintaining the same understanding of God's word your received from the first time you read the bible?

Mankind of the O.T. had a real problem understanding this. (it seems that they are not alone!) In Isaiah 42:21 the Word tell's us that Christ came to 'magnify' the Law and make it honorable'. And what do you want to do with it????

It's very simple what I want to do with it. I want to obey it in the order Christ gave us. If you do infact love God above all else; obeying the ten commandments doesn't even enter the picture. Why? Because your will becomes God's will. You dont' decide for yourself what is right and wrong. God decides for you. Do you think God needs to follow the ten commandments or do you think God *IS* the ten commandments?

My will is to submit to God's will, therefore I concentrate on nothing else, not even the ten commandments. I put God before *ALL* else.

That of putting God FIRST and loving man second. And you 'still' ask what that means???

I don't know where all this is coming from John...I didn't ask what it means. I feel you may be adding words to my meaning, without getting me to clarify. God first above all else, I agree with this. Man doesn't come second however, if that is what you mean by the second greatest command. There was no order like that which Christ spoke of. He said that we were to love our neighbour as we love ourselves.

In other words, if we put God first and love our neighbours as ourselves, are we not all one through Christ?

All 66 books are required for knowing truth.

Accepting the Lord Jesus Christ as your Saviour and trusting his ability to lead you to truth through the Holy Spirit, is the way to go for me. :wink:

I suggest that if you Love God as you claim, that you best change your diet as He requires.

I already have John and that's what your scriptural knowledge fails to see. My diet is as HE requires not what you require. I have tried to trust man before but they are an imperfect vessel incapable of the kind of love God can reveal to mankind, if they would only let him. :D

 

[John the Baptist]

Whatever? But did you notice that Matthew 4:4 verse was to be our diet? And I did not see one scripture in the post? --John

 

[Klee shay]

But did you notice that Matthew 4:4 verse was to be our diet?

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

I do not dispute this. Every word means every word though and it takes quite a bit of time (in fact a lifetime) in order to digest it all. The word of God manifests itself to every believer according to God's time, goodness and will.

Do you think I understood this however when my father abandoned our family and my step-father sexually abused me? Do you think I understood the word of God then? What comfort does "thou shalt honour thy mother and father," bring in those times of pain?

I tell you it was God's time that I experience "the shaddow" of the valley of death, it was his goodness which drew me away from the death and it was his will that I speak about the power of God to do all these things to a person who feels like God is acting against them in their life. His mercy carries more power than his wrath; which is why Jesus became the vessel of mankind's salvation.

I speak about the Lord's desire to pick us up, to carry and to hold us because I have experienced it first hand. I am not a scripture in a bible to carry any authority, but the Lord will still use me as He wills. And He will continue to use people like me to remind people like you that his flock still go unfed. Not by the word of God but the ability to digest it when they are ready.

The ten commandments don't mean anything to a sinner who doesn't love God or his neighbours. The ten commandments is a weapon the enemy uses to weild at people to make them feel guilty, to make them feel inadequate and unworthy. Yet the very death of Christ proved that mankind was worthy of the Saviour. It was love that delivered us a Saviour, not obedience. It is love that will deliver his word to the hungry, not obedience. What is obedience when one doesn't understand the difference between love and hate?

Then said Jesus, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do?" Luke 23:34

He didn't say it to make himself a Martyr. He said it because it was truth.

And I did not see one scripture in the post? --John

Yes, but is anything I said lacking of truth John?

 

[Heidi]

It isn't man who's worthy of our savior. It is simply God's love for us that makes us worthy. None of us deserves His love. So it's all about who God is, not about who we are.

 

[thessalonian]

It isn't man who's worthy of our savior. It is simply God's love for us that makes us worthy. None of us deserves His love.

Agreed. He loved us first.

So it's all about who God is, not about who we are.

This sounds pious and humble but in reality it is a false dichotomy. It is about who we are and that he makes us who we are by his grace.

We are his sons and daughters.
We are children of the light.
We are his people, the flock of the lamb.
We are a new creation.
We are called and choosen.
We are the body of Christ.
.
.
.

Do I need chapter and verse for these. Praise God that he is doing these great things. It gives glory and praise to HIM when we recognize what HE does for us.

 

[John the Baptist]

The ten commandments is a weapon the enemy uses to weild at people to make them feel guilty, to make them feel inadequate and unworthy.
********
Yes is the answer to your question that. 'is anything that I said lacking truth' See 2 Corinthians 3:3 in the K.J. (N.T.)

And I do feel for you for what happened in the past. : Yet, I see it this way, if I may? This doctrine of O.S.A.S. not only kills, rapes, and is a satanic doctrine of satan that would even save your step father, but it is far the worse than murder, by promising them life while living in the sin, just by teaching OSAS. The reason is, is that this would be the first death only, not the second death that cause many to be eternally.. 'be as though they never were'! (Obadiah 1:16) LOST ETERNALLY!! :

Please understand: There have been & surely are folks who die believing this extremely false doctrine from the past and even in ignorance in the future. They are doing the best that they know of. Yet, in today's setting, how many will be able to claim ignorance to Christ's Matthew 4:4 N.T. verse even? And there is far more than enough of HIS WORD for these ones even on this thread.

So as [I see it], this doctrine is a REAL TERRORIST 's'ATANIC TEACHING! DEADLY & FATAL!! And I truly believe that it will find a hell full of non/ignorant Baptist preachers, and the like! It, like burning in hell on & on eternally, surely does not sound like your post??? Yet, the doctrine is just preached on & on by these ministers! (not to mention sun. sacredness :o )

So, let me wonder some? this is what God will do with the 666 testing, he will not force one to decide to choose Him, but He will require one to make a final free 666 choice! Most 'in' christianity today have already made a 'I love you Lord empty profession', (see Revelation 17:1-5) but they have also made or are making the total commitment to take & even enforce the mark of the beast, and they do not even know it. Or else, why are there.. 'All the World' who followed the beast and let him inforce the test?? Because this test is for the professed christian, very popular!!

---John

 

[thessalonian]

Let me rephrase my position position a bit so that those who read it don't accuse me of the other extreme, it being about us.

It is ALWAYS ABOUT HIM and in a sense all about him.
It is NEVER ALWAYS ABOUT US.
It is about who we are in relation to whe HE has done for us.
When it is about us, it's about him.

Mary says "God has done great things for me". This is not Mary being proud or touting herself, but recognizing what God has done in relation to her. Oh, sorry, I probably derailed the thread completely now. It's going to go off on a tangent about Marian doctrines. :wink:

Blessings

 

[thessalonian]

It isn't man who's worthy of our savior. It is simply God's love for us that makes us worthy. None of us deserves His love. So it's all about who God is, not about who we are.

The dichotmoty is once again false. We are not to see ourselves as children of God, giving HIM praise and glory for it?
Was Mary being overly centralized in her focus when she said "God has done great things for me"?

I agree that it is All about him. That does not mean it is not at all about us. I agree that none of us deserves his love except that he made us in his image and likeness to be his sons and daughters. It's not about who we were. It is about who we are. This takes nothing away from him, in fact gives glory to him.

Do you deny that the bible tells us who we are.
Children of God.
The body of Christ.
His people.
A royal priesthood, a holy nation..
A new creation.

All of these in relation to him are quite appropriate to reflect upon. It is by his grace that we are who we are. So it is all about him. But that does not take away proper reflection on who we are.

 

[thessalonian]

The ten commandments don't mean anything to a sinner who doesn't love God or his neighbours. The ten commandments is a weapon the enemy uses to weild at people to make them feel guilty, to make them feel inadequate and unworthy. Yet the very death of Christ proved that mankind was worthy of the Saviour. It was love that delivered us a Saviour, not obedience. It is love that will deliver his word to the hungry, not obedience. What is obedience when one doesn't understand the difference between love and hate?

More false dichotomy. The 10 commandments are about love and how we love. Take not of the question of the lawyer in Luke 10:


Luke 10
[25] And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
[26] He said to him, "What is written in the law? How do you read?"
[27] And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself."
[28] And he said to him, "You have answered right; do this, and you will live."

The after this Jesus tells the story of the good samaritan. What the Lawyer did was to sum of the ten commanndments. The first three are love of God and the last 7 are love of neighbor (not separated from loving God). Can one love their neighbor if they are stealing from him, killing him, taking his wife, dishonoring his parents etc. etc. The 10 commandments are not about guilt trips from God's point of view. They are about love. To separate them from love is a serious error. The 10 commandments are to convict the sinner who does not love God and his neighbor and motivate him to obedience. If he feels guilty it is probably because he is.

Blessings