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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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The miracle rebirth of Israel
- Thread starter golfjack
- Start date
P
Poke
Guest
Re: reply
Yes. Your point? Jesus is God for the Jew as much as for the Gentile. Zionists, in essence, deny that.
jgredline said:
Yes. Your point? Jesus is God for the Jew as much as for the Gentile. Zionists, in essence, deny that.
J
John the Baptist
Guest
--CONDITIONAL PROPHECY--
John here: Removed by me for perhaps a more intelligent viewing 'thread' of posters elsewhere?? :wink:
John here: Removed by me for perhaps a more intelligent viewing 'thread' of posters elsewhere?? :wink:
J
Jay T
Guest
There are 2 Israels.golfjack said:
One national, and one spiritual.
National Israel was rejected by God (Daniel 9:24-27), Spiritual Israel remains.
reply
John, I have no idea what it is that you are talking about. I guess you belong to the SDA church. Do you really think that you guys are the ones that are going to be saved? Do you believe that you guys will be the 144,000 Witnesses? To me, your Church is way out in left field.
May God bless, golfjack
John, I have no idea what it is that you are talking about. I guess you belong to the SDA church. Do you really think that you guys are the ones that are going to be saved? Do you believe that you guys will be the 144,000 Witnesses? To me, your Church is way out in left field.
May God bless, golfjack
reply
I remind you that during the Tribulation the Gentile church is in heaven. The 144,000 who will be sealed to present the gospel to the world will be 144,000 Jewish people who have a supernatural revelation of the idenity of Jesus Christ as Messiah, similar to Paul's revelation on the road to Damascus. The point here is that a nation called Israel is alive and well during the Tribulation. They will be part of the first matter of business when Christ returns to earth, judgment of the nations. And the basis for this judgment is to be how the nations of the world treated the Jewish people and the nation of Israel ( see Matt. 25:31-46).
The point is simply this: if God has cast away Israel, why do they still exist in the Book of Revelation? Why does God have a judgment of nations and men for the way in which they treated the Jewish people from Genesis to the Second Coming?
Two pictures of Abraham's seed that clearly reflect the difference between Israel and the church can be found in scripture.
The first picture of Abraham's seed presents Abraham's descendants as the sand of the sea. ( see Genesis 22:17; Hebrews 11:12). Sand is earthly. Its volume represents the multitudes of people from Abraham's seed, both Jews and Arabs.
The second picture of Abraham's seed, found in the same scripture verses, is as the stars of the heavens. Who are the stars? The Church. The stars produce light, and the Church is commanded to be the Light of the world. The stars rule the night, just as the Church is commanded to rule over powers and principalities of darkness. The Church rules in heavenly places, which is reflected in Ephesians 6. The Church has been given a heavenly Kingdom, just as Christ promised ( John 14:2-3). God gave to the Jewish people a physical land whose literal boundaries are given in Genesis 15:18-21. It is a specific land with Jeruslem as its capital city forever.
Israel has been given an earthly kingdom with an earthly Jerusalem now located in Israel. The church has been given the New Jersualem located in heaven.
The only way anyone can confuse the obvious meaning of Scripture is to spiritualize the text with an allegorical meaning rather than a factual meaning. That's why scriptures must be interpreted by other scriptures, paying close attention to whom it is written and for what and for what purpose, lest it become twisted and distorted by thelogical demagogues, leading to confusion and deception.
May God bless, golfjack
I remind you that during the Tribulation the Gentile church is in heaven. The 144,000 who will be sealed to present the gospel to the world will be 144,000 Jewish people who have a supernatural revelation of the idenity of Jesus Christ as Messiah, similar to Paul's revelation on the road to Damascus. The point here is that a nation called Israel is alive and well during the Tribulation. They will be part of the first matter of business when Christ returns to earth, judgment of the nations. And the basis for this judgment is to be how the nations of the world treated the Jewish people and the nation of Israel ( see Matt. 25:31-46).
The point is simply this: if God has cast away Israel, why do they still exist in the Book of Revelation? Why does God have a judgment of nations and men for the way in which they treated the Jewish people from Genesis to the Second Coming?
Two pictures of Abraham's seed that clearly reflect the difference between Israel and the church can be found in scripture.
The first picture of Abraham's seed presents Abraham's descendants as the sand of the sea. ( see Genesis 22:17; Hebrews 11:12). Sand is earthly. Its volume represents the multitudes of people from Abraham's seed, both Jews and Arabs.
The second picture of Abraham's seed, found in the same scripture verses, is as the stars of the heavens. Who are the stars? The Church. The stars produce light, and the Church is commanded to be the Light of the world. The stars rule the night, just as the Church is commanded to rule over powers and principalities of darkness. The Church rules in heavenly places, which is reflected in Ephesians 6. The Church has been given a heavenly Kingdom, just as Christ promised ( John 14:2-3). God gave to the Jewish people a physical land whose literal boundaries are given in Genesis 15:18-21. It is a specific land with Jeruslem as its capital city forever.
Israel has been given an earthly kingdom with an earthly Jerusalem now located in Israel. The church has been given the New Jersualem located in heaven.
The only way anyone can confuse the obvious meaning of Scripture is to spiritualize the text with an allegorical meaning rather than a factual meaning. That's why scriptures must be interpreted by other scriptures, paying close attention to whom it is written and for what and for what purpose, lest it become twisted and distorted by thelogical demagogues, leading to confusion and deception.
May God bless, golfjack
P
Poke
Guest
destiny said:
Galatians 3:29
If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
What don't you understand?
Poke said:
I believe this to be correct. Christianity is not a new religion created by Christ, but a fulfillment by the Messiah. Thus, Christians are Israel. Those who currently call themselves Jews are neither the Jews of the Old Testament nor are they the subjects of prophecy regarding Israel. We are Israel. The State of Israel as established after WW2 is, as was stated, a self-fulfilled prophecy that has nothing to do with Biblical prophecy, but rather, zionists hoping to fulfill the prophecies without a real understanding of the Christ who has already come...
-Michael
destiny
Member
If you are a gentile you are Abrahams spiritual seed (an ingrafted one). If a Jew, the natural seed.Poke said:
Israel hasn't been condemned by God, and He does still have a plan for the Jews.
Heres a pretty good rebuttal of replacement theology..
http://www.therefinersfire.org/replacement_theology.htm
Vic C.
Member
ZeroTX said:
We agree again, AV.AVBunyan said:
Maybe from a spiritual perspective we are Israel, but certainly not from a bloodline, lineage perspective. We don't know for a fact where the tribes have been scattered. We can only speculate. However, God knows who they are and where this remnant is and will be in the last days... and in those days, it id HE that will gather them together.
Isaiah 11:11-12, Isaiah 43:1-7, Jeremiah 23:3, Jeremiah 29:14, Jeremiah 31:10-11, Ezekiel 11:16-20, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Joel 2:15-16, Micah 2:12
Re: reply
Come let us reason together in love – Here is some food for thought…
Standard teaching (I used to believe this also) is the church will inhabit the New Jerusalem. Study it out – read John 14, Heb.11 and 12 and Rev 21 (search out the word “cityâ€Â) - Israel and Abraham are associated with this city not the present body of Christ. And this city will come down to earth or hover above it - not sure here - still working on it.
The body of Christ is found in Christ far above all principalities and powers above the heavens – Eph. 1-3.
Check it out – our position is in Christ and is better than New Jerusalem!
God bless
Hey golf - I enjoy your posts... :Dgolfjack said:
Come let us reason together in love – Here is some food for thought…
Standard teaching (I used to believe this also) is the church will inhabit the New Jerusalem. Study it out – read John 14, Heb.11 and 12 and Rev 21 (search out the word “cityâ€Â) - Israel and Abraham are associated with this city not the present body of Christ. And this city will come down to earth or hover above it - not sure here - still working on it.
The body of Christ is found in Christ far above all principalities and powers above the heavens – Eph. 1-3.
Check it out – our position is in Christ and is better than New Jerusalem!
God bless
P
Poke
Guest
destiny said:
The original promise was to Abraham and Christ, not to Abraham and the Jews. In the Bible's first book, 12:27a says "And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land." Notice, it says "seed" not "seeds", meaning one person, who is Christ.
Oh, and the physical nation of Israel is indeed condemned. God destroyed it for its wickedness. And, God is done with the Jews until they accept Christ.
A garbage website. You should take a look at the quality of its answers.
Zionism is antichrist and nothing but evil comes from that doctrine.
J
John the Baptist
Guest
destiny said:
****
Neither of the two are Christian are they, right? So who is right now their spiritual leader? And will not what he says to them happen, with his own?
What if they join forces & claim to set up the anti/Christ kingdom, would anyone think that, that could happen? You know, deceive the very elect if it were possible??
And who would ever of thought that old Israel would cry that they had no king but Caesar? Check Daniel 11:33-38 & Daniel 11:45 huh?
---John
Vic C.
Member
Hi Poke. I'm just not seeing this in scripture. First of all, there is no Genesis 12:27. I believe the verse you are looking for is Genesis 15:18:Poke said:
Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:...
The nest passage is how Ishmael cane to be. But we know this can't be the "seed" in question because God rebukes Abrham, telling him in effect that Ishmael is not the seed. God does go on to tell Abraham:
Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
The seed is not Jesus. The seed is the child between Abraham and Sarah... Isaac.
Gen 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
We know the rest of the story; Jacob wound up with Esau's blessing, was renamed Israel, had 12 sons and in effect, became the father of the 12 tribes of Israel.
It doesn't matter whether it says seed or seeds; Scripture confirms the land and covenant was to Abraham, his seed and it's offspring.