The miracle rebirth of Israel

[jgredline]

Re: reply

Replacement theology is of the devil and is just wrong.

You're saying Christianity is of the devil.

click on this link and see if Gods hands are not all over israel.
http://nyjtimes.com/cover/03-10-03/Mira ... eofWar.htm
Its an old article but blesses me everytime I read it.

No miracles there, just the results of asymmetrical warfare, and an Arab world not as devoted to Israel's destruction as zionists imagine.

If God's hand is on Israel, he sure isn't letting them have any peace. Israel just started and lost a war with Hezbollah. Maybe God was too busy the last couple of months.

Poke
Jesus is God, read the bible

 

[Poke]

Re: reply

Poke
Jesus is God, read the bible

Yes. Your point? Jesus is God for the Jew as much as for the Gentile. Zionists, in essence, deny that.

 

[John the Baptist]

--CONDITIONAL PROPHECY--

John here: Removed by me for perhaps a more intelligent viewing 'thread' of posters elsewhere?? :

 

[Jay T]

In order to really appreciate the miracle rebirth of Israel, let's consider Old Testament promises of God. For example, Deut. 30:3 says: God will return and gather thee from all the nations. God says, out of every nation I will gather my people back to their land. Has He done it? No nation has ever been persecuted and scattered like Israel has; but today in spite of insurmountable odds, surrounded by 120 million people that said Israel would never come back as a nation, Israel exists as a nation with four million people. It's a miracle. You might ask, is it really that big a miracle? It sure is. I believe the nation of Israel even began with a miracle. Do you?


May God bless, golfjack

There are 2 Israels.
One national, and one spiritual.
National Israel was rejected by God (Daniel 9:24-27), Spiritual Israel remains.

 

[golfjack]

reply

John, I have no idea what it is that you are talking about. I guess you belong to the SDA church. Do you really think that you guys are the ones that are going to be saved? Do you believe that you guys will be the 144,000 Witnesses? To me, your Church is way out in left field.


May God bless, golfjack

 

[destiny]

There are 2 Israels.
One national, and one spiritual.
National Israel was rejected by God (Daniel 9:24-27), Spiritual Israel remains.

National and spiritual Israel are interwoven right now ....no man can make the distinction between the two with the natural eye. In rejecting one you could very well be rejecting the other.
Only God can sort out His own....and He will in time.

 

[golfjack]

reply

I remind you that during the Tribulation the Gentile church is in heaven. The 144,000 who will be sealed to present the gospel to the world will be 144,000 Jewish people who have a supernatural revelation of the idenity of Jesus Christ as Messiah, similar to Paul's revelation on the road to Damascus. The point here is that a nation called Israel is alive and well during the Tribulation. They will be part of the first matter of business when Christ returns to earth, judgment of the nations. And the basis for this judgment is to be how the nations of the world treated the Jewish people and the nation of Israel ( see Matt. 25:31-46).

The point is simply this: if God has cast away Israel, why do they still exist in the Book of Revelation? Why does God have a judgment of nations and men for the way in which they treated the Jewish people from Genesis to the Second Coming?

Two pictures of Abraham's seed that clearly reflect the difference between Israel and the church can be found in scripture.

The first picture of Abraham's seed presents Abraham's descendants as the sand of the sea. ( see Genesis 22:17; Hebrews 11:12). Sand is earthly. Its volume represents the multitudes of people from Abraham's seed, both Jews and Arabs.

The second picture of Abraham's seed, found in the same scripture verses, is as the stars of the heavens. Who are the stars? The Church. The stars produce light, and the Church is commanded to be the Light of the world. The stars rule the night, just as the Church is commanded to rule over powers and principalities of darkness. The Church rules in heavenly places, which is reflected in Ephesians 6. The Church has been given a heavenly Kingdom, just as Christ promised ( John 14:2-3). God gave to the Jewish people a physical land whose literal boundaries are given in Genesis 15:18-21. It is a specific land with Jeruslem as its capital city forever.

Israel has been given an earthly kingdom with an earthly Jerusalem now located in Israel. The church has been given the New Jersualem located in heaven.

The only way anyone can confuse the obvious meaning of Scripture is to spiritualize the text with an allegorical meaning rather than a factual meaning. That's why scriptures must be interpreted by other scriptures, paying close attention to whom it is written and for what and for what purpose, lest it become twisted and distorted by thelogical demagogues, leading to confusion and deception.


May God bless, golfjack

 

[jgredline]

Golfjack
This is what I thought also. You did bring up some good points.
Thanks Jg

 

[Poke]

National and spiritual Israel are interwoven right now ....no man can make the distinction between the two with the natural eye. In rejecting one you could very well be rejecting the other.
Only God can sort out His own....and He will in time.

Galatians 3:29
If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

What don't you understand?

 

[ZeroTX]

Golfjack, read the verse just previous to Deut 30:3, Deut 30:2 "And when you and your children return to the LORD your God and obey him with all your heart and with all your soul according to everything I command you today..." Do you think the Jews of the state of Israel have returned to the LORD and obey Him with all their heart and soul? Taking that passage in simple terms, God won't restore the state of Israel until the Jews become Christians. In more complex terms, Christians are Jews are the restored Israel. Becoming a Christian brings one into Israel - this is the clear teaching of the New Testament - rejecting this is what makes zionists anti-christ.

Galatians 3:29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I believe this to be correct. Christianity is not a new religion created by Christ, but a fulfillment by the Messiah. Thus, Christians are Israel. Those who currently call themselves Jews are neither the Jews of the Old Testament nor are they the subjects of prophecy regarding Israel. We are Israel. The State of Israel as established after WW2 is, as was stated, a self-fulfilled prophecy that has nothing to do with Biblical prophecy, but rather, zionists hoping to fulfill the prophecies without a real understanding of the Christ who has already come...

-Michael

 

[AVBunyan]

Thus, Christians are Israel. We are Israel. -Michael

Oh well - just you just tossed out 2/3 of the OT by spiritualizing all the literal promises to Israel - how convenient...how insane :o :o :o

 

[destiny]

National and spiritual Israel are interwoven right now ....no man can make the distinction between the two with the natural eye. In rejecting one you could very well be rejecting the other.
Only God can sort out His own....and He will in time.

Galatians 3:29
If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

What don't you understand?

If you are a gentile you are Abrahams spiritual seed (an ingrafted one). If a Jew, the natural seed.
Israel hasn't been condemned by God, and He does still have a plan for the Jews.

Heres a pretty good rebuttal of replacement theology..
http://www.therefinersfire.org/replacement_theology.htm

 

[golfjack]

reply

Right on AV.



May God bless, golfjack

 

[Vic C.]

I believe this to be correct. Christianity is not a new religion created by Christ, but a fulfillment by the Messiah. Thus, Christians are Israel. Those who currently call themselves Jews are neither the Jews of the Old Testament nor are they the subjects of prophecy regarding Israel. We are Israel. The State of Israel as established after WW2 is, as was stated, a self-fulfilled prophecy that has nothing to do with Biblical prophecy, but rather, zionists hoping to fulfill the prophecies without a real understanding of the Christ who has already come...

-Michael

Thus, Christians are Israel. We are Israel. -Michael

Oh well - just you just tossed out 2/3 of the OT by spiritualizing all the literal promises to Israel - how convenient...how insane :o :o :o

We agree again, AV.

Maybe from a spiritual perspective we are Israel, but certainly not from a bloodline, lineage perspective. We don't know for a fact where the tribes have been scattered. We can only speculate. However, God knows who they are and where this remnant is and will be in the last days... and in those days, it id HE that will gather them together.

Isaiah 11:11-12, Isaiah 43:1-7, Jeremiah 23:3, Jeremiah 29:14, Jeremiah 31:10-11, Ezekiel 11:16-20, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Joel 2:15-16, Micah 2:12

 

[AVBunyan]

Re: reply

The church has been given the New Jersualem located in heaven. May God bless, golfjack

Hey golf - I enjoy your posts...

Come let us reason together in love – Here is some food for thought…

Standard teaching (I used to believe this also) is the church will inhabit the New Jerusalem. Study it out – read John 14, Heb.11 and 12 and Rev 21 (search out the word “cityâ€Â) - Israel and Abraham are associated with this city not the present body of Christ. And this city will come down to earth or hover above it - not sure here - still working on it.

The body of Christ is found in Christ far above all principalities and powers above the heavens – Eph. 1-3.

Check it out – our position is in Christ and is better than New Jerusalem!

God bless

 

[AVBunyan]

We agree again, AV.

Thanks Vic - but....we have to quit agreeing like this - this is a forum! :-D

God bless

 

[Poke]

If you are a gentile you are Abrahams spiritual seed (an ingrafted one). If a Jew, the natural seed.
Israel hasn't been condemned by God, and He does still have a plan for the Jews.

The original promise was to Abraham and Christ, not to Abraham and the Jews. In the Bible's first book, 12:27a says "And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land." Notice, it says "seed" not "seeds", meaning one person, who is Christ.

Oh, and the physical nation of Israel is indeed condemned. God destroyed it for its wickedness. And, God is done with the Jews until they accept Christ.

Heres a pretty good rebuttal of replacement theology..
http://www.therefinersfire.org/replacement_theology.htm

A garbage website. You should take a look at the quality of its answers.

Zionism is antichrist and nothing but evil comes from that doctrine.

 

[destiny]

Zionism is antichrist and nothing but evil comes from that doctrine.

Be careful what you believe. The Antichrist will embody demonic hatred against Israel, his goal will be to eliminate the jews from the face of the earth.
Which spirit are you of? :-?

 

[John the Baptist]

Zionism is antichrist and nothing but evil comes from that doctrine.

Be careful what you believe. The Antichrist will embody demonic hatred against Israel, his goal will be to eliminate the jews from the face of the earth.
Which spirit are you of? :-?

****
Neither of the two are Christian are they, right? So who is right now their spiritual leader? And will not what he says to them happen, with his own?

What if they join forces & claim to set up the anti/Christ kingdom, would anyone think that, that could happen? You know, deceive the very elect if it were possible??

And who would ever of thought that old Israel would cry that they had no king but Caesar? Check Daniel 11:33-38 & Daniel 11:45 huh?
---John

 

[Vic C.]

The original promise was to Abraham and Christ, not to Abraham and the Jews. In the Bible's first book, 12:27a says "And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land." Notice, it says "seed" not "seeds", meaning one person, who is Christ.

Oh, and the physical nation of Israel is indeed condemned. God destroyed it for its wickedness. And, God is done with the Jews until they accept Christ.

Hi Poke. I'm just not seeing this in scripture. First of all, there is no Genesis 12:27. I believe the verse you are looking for is Genesis 15:18:

Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:...

The nest passage is how Ishmael cane to be. But we know this can't be the "seed" in question because God rebukes Abrham, telling him in effect that Ishmael is not the seed. God does go on to tell Abraham:

Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

The seed is not Jesus. The seed is the child between Abraham and Sarah... Isaac.

Gen 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

We know the rest of the story; Jacob wound up with Esau's blessing, was renamed Israel, had 12 sons and in effect, became the father of the 12 tribes of Israel.

It doesn't matter whether it says seed or seeds; Scripture confirms the land and covenant was to Abraham, his seed and it's offspring.