The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[cleanfreak]

I will ask the same question as I did in the other thread.

Here are some questions for sbg57:
How do you witness to people who need Jesus? How do you know if they are "the chosen" according to your thinking?

 

[savedbygrace57]

I will ask the same question as I did in the other thread.

Here are some questions for sbg57:
How do you witness to people who need Jesus? How do you know if they are "the chosen" according to your thinking?

I am witnessing to you now..

 

[cleanfreak]

I am witnessing to you now..

..............but I know Jesus as my personal savior.

How about re-reading the question and answer appropriately this time.

 

[Nathan]

I am witnessing to you now..

I really do not want to be a stickler for getting all technical. But this is in direct violation of the ToS.

But the greater thing is you declare to others to have superior knowledge of God's gift of election; who is elect and who is not. This does not give a very good repertoire of your faith either.

 

[savedbygrace57]

clean:

..............but I know Jesus as my personal savior.

I did not ask you that. All my posts are me witnessing to the Truth of the Gospel, and what you read of them is what I would say to anyone whom I witness to..I would simply tell them the Truth as I am now..

 

[savedbygrace57]

nathan:

you declare to others to have superior knowledge of God's gift of election; who is elect and who is not.

Thats a lie, when have I said I have that knowledge. I do not know who the elect are until they believe the Truth..

 

[cleanfreak]

clean:



I did not ask you that. All my posts are me witnessing to the Truth of the Gospel, and what you read of them is what I would say to anyone whom I witness to..I would simply tell them the Truth as I am now..

So how do you know they are God's "chosen"? Why waste your time?

If they accept Christ as their Savior and then fall away,are they still considered "chosen"? Did God change his mind about them?

If you believe all that you have posted, then why even witness at all? What would be the purpose?

I fear you do not have an appropriate answer. You have posted numerous scriptures and several threads about the same issue based on your opinion, but you cannot seem to answer a simple question.

 

[Eventide]

I do not know who the elect are until they believe the Truth..

I know exactly who the elect one is and I also know for certain that every last one will be elected (chosen) in Him.

Election is simple when it's all centered upon the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ.. but ol' Calvin got election wrong and started teaching false doctrine.. and some just keep teaching the same ol nonsense about condemned men being the elect..

Calvinists certainly do a good job at one thing... and that's taking the focus off of Christ with respect to election..

 

[Nathan]

nathan:



Thats a lie, when have I said I have that knowledge. I do not know who the elect are until they believe the Truth..

Ah. But what is the truth YOU speak of? But yet you say that when they believe, then you know who they are. So you obviously boast an above 'average' ability to know more than others of election. For according to you election is based upon them believe the truth as YOU see it.

 

[savedbygrace57]

et:

I also know for certain that every last one will be elected (chosen) in Him.

Thats your religion, not mine..

 

[savedbygrace57]

cf:

So how do you know they are God's "chosen"?

I just said in post 906..

 

[Eventide]

et:



Thats your religion, not mine..

Well that's the problem when you follow the doctrines of men and teach false doctrine.. the focus is taken off of Christ and placed upon condemned men.. and you do well at that, teaching the false doctrines of men.

 

[cleanfreak]

cf:



I just said in post 906..

What about the rest of the questions in post 907?

 

[4given]

Another popular Myth in the religious world today, is the Jesus Christ died or gave His Life for everyone in the world without exception, but the problem with that, is there is not one shred of scripture evidence that states that.

The scripture however does say that He died for His Sheep or His Church as per Jn 10:

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

eph 5:

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

His People Isa 53:

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. cp Matt 1:21

Now, are all without exception His Sheep ? No

Are all without exception His Church ? No

Are all without exception His People ? No

For surely the children of the devil Jn 8:44 cannot be of His Sheep, His Church, or His People.

So why does the religous world proclaim that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception, when they have no scripture proof ? Because it is a Myth.

Sorry, but it is your flawed understanding of the Scripture that is based on Myth..

Why don't you read Ephesians 1 & 2 again... which talked about those Gentiles (not chosen / not elect /nor his sheeps in the time past )... who were without Christ; stranger from the covenant of promise; having no hope; and without God in this world....

....but, NOW (present times), through the blood of Christ, even when we were dead in sins... hath quickened us (Gentiles) together with Christ......

Ephisians 1
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed (conditional) , ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory

IN CHRIST.

 

[savedbygrace57]

The Death of Christ Gathers !

That other Sheep I have [ other than jewish sheep] and them too I must bring or gather, same connotation as Jn 11:

52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Yes, His Death has gathering power...

The end of Christ death is to Gather into one The Children of God, or the Children of Promise rom 9:8.

So the death of Christ in and of itself [no help from man] Gathers in or brings to God, all for whom He died. He brings them to Glory, for thats the stated purpose heb 2:


10For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

It is they who by His death shall be made righteous as per rom 5:19b

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The obedience here means His death or His cross phil 2:

8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. ​

 

[Nathan]

So do you believe that obedience is not necessary for man in relation to salvation?

 

[4given]

I thought so... The original poster BELOW would not be able to come up with a direct rebutal to my previous post # 914... ref. all the way down... because his understanding has been directly debunked and reputed. So much so with this "Calvinized Theory".

Another popular Myth the religious world today, is the Jesus Christ died or gave His Life for everyone in the world without exception, but the problem with that, is there is not one shred of scripture evidence that states that.

The scripture however does say that He died for His Sheep or His Church as per Jn 10:

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

eph 5:

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

His People Isa 53:

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. cp Matt 1:21

Now, are all without exception His Sheep ? No

Are all without exception His Church ? No

Are all without exception His People ? No

For surely the children of the devil Jn 8:44 cannot be of His Sheep, His Church, or His People.

So why does the religous world proclaim that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception, when they have no scripture proof ? Because it is a Myth.

BUMP..... BUMP.... BUMP....... :waving

Sorry, but it is your flawed understanding of the Scripture that is based on Myth..

Why don't you read Ephesians 1 & 2 again... which talked about those Gentiles (not chosen / not elect /nor his sheeps in the time past )... who were without Christ; stranger from the covenant of promise; having no hope; and without God in this world....

....but, NOW (present times), through the blood of Christ, even when we were dead in sins... hath quickened us (Gentiles) together with Christ......

Ephisians 1
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed (conditional) , ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory

IN CHRIST.

 

[cleanfreak]

great points 4given

....but do not feel bad, my questions were never answered either. :D

 

[Alabaster]

Another popular Myth in the religious world today, is the Jesus Christ died or gave His Life for everyone in the world without exception, but the problem with that, is there is not one shred of scripture evidence that states that.

The scripture however does say that He died for His Sheep or His Church as per Jn 10:

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

eph 5:

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

His People Isa 53:

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. cp Matt 1:21

Now, are all without exception His Sheep ? No

Are all without exception His Church ? No

Are all without exception His People ? No

For surely the children of the devil Jn 8:44 cannot be of His Sheep, His Church, or His People.

So why does the religous world proclaim that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception, when they have no scripture proof ? Because it is a Myth.

I'm with ya.

 

[savedbygrace57]

So do you believe that obedience is not necessary for man in relation to salvation?

Obedience is necessary as an evidence of one's salvation, but not the cause of it. The only obedience that is the condition and cause of ones being made righteous is Christ alone, the obedience of ONE..rom 5:

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.