The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[warhorse]

Greetings;

So your answer would be Yes to both elements of my question. Is that right?
You believe in a Jesus who died for people who already perished in their sins before the cross and for the antichrist and the man of sin as well as those who were beyond salvatyion having committed the unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit. Is that correct?

James Kirby

Yes that is what the scripture says, Jesus died for the sins of the world, before and after the cross. Man still has/had the choice to except it or not. Just as adam and eve had the choice to obey or not.

 

[Jozinky]

Originally Posted by Jozinky
Greetings;

So your answer would be Yes to both elements of my question. Is that right?
You believe in a Jesus who died for people who already perished in their sins before the cross and for the antichrist and the man of sin as well as those who were beyond salvation having committed the unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit. Is that correct?

Yes that is what the scripture says, Jesus died for the sins of the world, before and after the cross. Man still has/had the choice to except it or not. Just as adam and eve had the choice to obey or not.

The Scripture nowhere says Jesus died for the antichrist or those who were already damned before the cross... or those who are beyond salvation because they committed the unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit.

Do you believe the death of Christ fully satisfied God's Divine Justice against all the sins of everyone in whose place He stood?

Jozinky

 

[savedbygrace57]

Yes that is what the scripture says, Jesus died for the sins of the world, before and after the cross. Man still has/had the choice to except it or not. Just as adam and eve had the choice to obey or not.

All for whom Christ died shall be made righteous, before or after the cross..rom 5:19b

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[Jozinky]

Yes that is what the scripture says, Jesus died for the sins of the world, before and after the cross. Man still has/had the choice to except it or not. Just as adam and eve had the choice to obey or not.

All for whom Christ died shall be made righteous, before or after the cross..rom 5:19b

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

So according to warhorse the antichrist will be made righteous along with all those who were damned before the cross and those who commit the unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit... which is absurd nonsense. And according to you the elect are already righteous before they are even born so here you contradict your own self.

Jozinky

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz:

So according to warhorse the antichrist will be made righteous

Ask him..

But what I know is this, all for whom Christ died shall be made righteous rom 5:

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[Jozinky]

joz:



Ask him..

But what I know is this, all for whom Christ died shall be made righteous rom 5:

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Correct. And to be made righteous is the same thing as to be made just, or justified and Paul in the same letter teaches that a man is justified by Faith. Chapter 4. So until men come to Faith in Christ and His Gospel they are not justified nor are they made righteous.

Jozinky

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz:

Correct. And to be made righteous is the same thing as to be made just, or justified and Paul in the same letter teaches that a man is justified by Faith

Paul teaches that the many are made Just or righteous by the obedience of one..rom 5:

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[Jozinky]

joz:



Paul teaches that the many are made Just or righteous by the obedience of one..rom 5:

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

True but the questions is.... When are they "made righteous"? Your answer is a false gospel.

[SIZE=+1]Act 13:39 and by him every one that believeth is justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]It says.. All who believe ~are~ justified... or everyone who believes ~is~ justified. Present tense. Now question; Is it possible for an Unregenerate person to be Justified?

Weasel answers;
1; Yes because justification took place in eternity. The elect were eternally justified even before they was born. This produces Unregenerate Unbelievers who are Justified which is un-Biblical nonsense.

2; Yes because justification took place at the cross. This must really answer both Yes and No at the same time because if Justification took place at the cross then that would mean that all Before the cross were not Justified while all After the cross were. This produces Regenerate Believers who are Unjustified before the cross[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] which is more nonsense[/SIZE][SIZE=+1].

The Correct Biblical answer is No; There is no such thing as an Unregenerate Unbeliever who is Justified. Therefore, when Paul says here that every one that believes is Justified He must of necessity be talking about Regenerate Believers! Otherwise you end up with Unregenerate Unbelievers who are ~Justified~ and that's heresy.[/SIZE]

Jozinky

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz:

True but the questions is.... When are they "made righteous"?

Well, they first must be declared righteous in God's Mind before they are made righteous. God sees them as righteous because Christ righteousness has been imputed to them, and so, He makes them righteous in His own time, for each one of them..

The word made is the greek word

kathistēmi and means:

to set down as, constitute, to declare, show to be

So, God will show to be righteous all those Christ died for. And the when is not as important as the why..

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz:

The Correct Biblical answer is No; There is no such thing as an Unregenerate Unbeliever who is Justified.

Thats a Lie, the elect are reconciled to God, in His Favor while they are enemies and unbelievers rom 5:

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[Jozinky]

joz:



Well, they first must be declared righteous in God's Mind before they are made righteous. God sees them as righteous because Christ righteousness has been imputed to them, and so, He makes them righteous in His own time, for each one of them..

The word made is the greek word

kathistēmi and means:

to set down as, constitute, to declare, show to be

So, God will show to be righteous all those Christ died for. And the when is not as important as the why..

Such nonsense is not even worth addressing. Men are "made righteous" when they repent and believe the Gospel.

Romans 3:21 But now a righteousness of God has been revealed apart from Law, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22 even the righteousness of God through ~~faith of Jesus Christ toward all and upon all those ~~~believing;~~~ for there is no difference,
23 for all sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption in Christ Jesus,
25 whom God set forth as a propitiation ~~~~through faith~~~~ in His blood, for a showing forth of His righteousness through the passing by of the sins that had taken place before, in the forbearance of God,
26 for the showing forth of His righteousness in the present time, for His being just and justifying the one that is of the ~~faith of Jesus.

Without Faith.... NO one is justified or made righteous.

Jozinky

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz:

Such nonsense is not even worth addressing. Men are "made righteous" when they repent and believe the Gospel.

Thats a Lie, the elect are made righteous by the obedience of One..rom 5:19

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz:

Without Faith.... NO one is justified or made righteous.

Faith comes as a result of being made righteous ..

 

[savedbygrace57]

more on redemption ! -



These scriptures have been clear that Christ death was not merely to make redemption[salvation] possible, but to actually redeem them He died for, for God's purpose cannot fail as per job 42:


2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.


2 “I know that You can do everything,
And that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You.[NKJV]

2"I know that you can do all things,
and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.[ESV]

And Isa 46:

10Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Then everyone Christ died for must be redeemed, and it is a scriptural fact that all without exception are not eternally redeemed, so then He did not die for everyone without exception lest His purpose failed, or yet will everyone be redeemed, which there is no scriptural proof of, unless you wrest scripture to your destruction as the universalist do..

 

[savedbygrace57]

Glory in the Cross for redemption ! -



Gal 6:

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

The Cross of Christ did not merely make redemption possible for those He died in behalf of, but it made certain that they would become believers, that they would come into experimental salvation, so the cross saves completely, paul knew it, and so does a True Christian.

What did Christ do when He died ? This should be known if we really believe the Gospel " That Christ died for our sins according to scripture".

Christ death proved to be an effective cure for the sinners He died for, for it is written, By His Stripes [Meaning His Death or Cross] we were healed 1 pet 2:

24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

The word healed is the greek word iaomai and means:

to cure, heal

2) to make whole

a) to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one's) salvation

By His Stripes or Cross He brings about ones Salvation, He makes them whole..

It effects a spiritual healing.. It heals the deadly wound of sin and spiritual death...

The saved are healed not by their faith, their freewill, their repentance, but solely by the Cross / Stripes of Christ..

This is what redemption through His Blood accomplishes for all that He died..

Now, did He die for all without exception ? The obvious answer is no, since all without exception will not be made whole or healed..

 

[Eventide]

The one question SBG doesn't have an answer for..

So.. SBG..

Are you exempt from TAKING UP YOUR CROSS, DENYING YOURSELF, and following CHRIST..?

 

[Jozinky]

joz:

Such nonsense is not even worth addressing. Men are "made righteous" when they repent and believe the Gospel.

joz:



Thats a Lie, the elect are made righteous by the obedience of One..rom 5:19

No it's the truth;
To be made righteous is to be justified. It's the same Greek word.
[SIZE=+1]Justification is the activity of God whereby He says something about a person. It is God -declaring- a person to be Righteous. When does God make such a declaration? The answer, according to the Bible is, when a person believes the Gospel. Since Abraham is the key figure in the Scriptures the following shows this point.

Several passages of Scripture show Abraham being Justified by faith when he believed God such as;
Gen 15:6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "And Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness."
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled, saying, "And Abraham believed God, and it was counted for righteousness to him;" and he was called, Friend of God.[/SIZE]

Therefore the elect are made righteous by =Faith= when they believe the Gospel. Until then they are under the curse of God... Galatians 3:10

Jozinky

 

[Jozinky]

joz:



Thats a Lie, the elect are made righteous by the obedience of One..rom 5:19

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Romans 5:19 is not a reference to Justification by Faith. Justification by =Faith= is the activity of God whereby He declares a sinner to be righteous or just. 5:19 says many shall be ~MADE~ righteous, not declared righteous. Being declared righteous and being Made righteous are two different things so once again you misuse Scripture. To be Declared righteous is something God says about a person. It's objective and addresses one's Legal, Positional standing before God. To be Made righteous is something God Does TO and IN a person. He changes the person's nature from wicked to righteous. It's subjective and addresses one's Personal Character.

Jozinky

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz

Romans 5:19 is not a reference to Justification by Faith.

It is, by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. The word righteous is the same word in the greek for Just as in rom 1:17..where it is stated, the Just shall live by Faith..

So thats how a Life of Faith is effected, by being made righteous by the obedience of one..

See how unlearned you are in these matters..

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz:

Correct. And to be made righteous is the same thing as to be made just, or justified and Paul in the same letter teaches that a man is justified by Faith.

The bible teaches that a man is Justified by Grace titus 3:

7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

On top of that, the resurrection of Christ gave evidence that all for whom Christ bare their offences, That they had been Justified rom 4:

25Who was delivered for [because of ] our offences, and was raised again for [because of] our justification.

This proves Justification before believing, Christ rose from the dead over 2000 yrs ago after having been delivered for my offences.

Christ resurrection proved all for whom He died God counted as Justified..

Only if Christ had not risen, would there be a case for one still being in their sins..

1 cor 15:17

And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

So again, you show me you know nothing about biblical salvation..