The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[Hitch]

You are not going to turn the tables,you are the one who claims to be special born, I was just a plain sinner headed for hell and God gave me the opportunity to accept Jesus as Saviour or to reject Jesus as Saviour...God GAVE me that choice just like he gave Adam a choice and just like He has given all a choice. We have a choice because GOD gave us a choice.

So you keep saying Sam. Now tell me why you are so much better than enyone who didnt make the proper choice.

If its true God grants all the same oppertunity you have no choice (heh heh) than to implicitly say you are better than all those who failed.

And you are required to explain your hope, yes? So explain it, what makes you better, why are you able to respond correctly, it must e that there is something special about you. Will you hide this great light from the rest of us?

 

[Eventide]

S P E C I A L . . .

Let's not kid ourselves here.. Calvinists are the ones who obviously believe that they're special, that they're the elect, that God chose THEM, that they got the special irresistable call while all others just get the general call.. yada yada yada..

There there's that amillennial thing..

 

[Sam21]

Re: S P E C I A L . . .

Let's not kid ourselves here.. Calvinists are the ones who obviously believe that they're special, that they're the elect, that God chose THEM, that they got the special irresistable call while all others just get the general call.. yada yada yada..

There there's that amillennial thing..

Very true and very obvious.

 

[Sam21]

So you keep saying Sam. Now tell me why you are so much better than enyone who didnt make the proper choice.

If its true God grants all the same oppertunity you have no choice (heh heh) than to implicitly say you are better than all those who failed.

And you are required to explain your hope, yes? So explain it, what makes you better, why are you able to respond correctly, it must e that there is something special about you. Will you hide this great light from the rest of us?

If we are all headed for hell then how could I be better than any other person headed for hell? A question for you(he,he), was Lot better than his wife or did Lot simply chose to obey God and she chose to disobey God? Were Lots daughters better than their mother or were they saved simply because they chose to do what God said? Were Aarons two sons better than the other two or did they simply chose to do what God said? Your argument defies reality because it is saying that a human does not have the ability to make a sensible choice or a foolish choice. We see humans making wise sensible choices and crazy foolish choices every day. A human can be presented by the Holy Spirit the opportunity to be saved and that human can chose to be wise and sensible and accept Christ or foolish and reject Christ, just like any human with anything can make a wise or foolish choice. This false doctrine that you are believing in is because you chose to believe it. You chose to believe what you now believe...it was YOUR CHOICE.

 

[Hitch]

If we are all headed for hell then how could I be better than any other person headed for hell? A question for you(he,he), was Lot better than his wife or did Lot simply chose to obey God and she chose to disobey God? Were Lots daughters better than their mother or were they saved simply because they chose to do what God said? Were Aarons two sons better than the other two or did they simply chose to do what God said? Your argument defies reality because it is saying that a human does not have the ability to make a sensible choice or a foolish choice. We see humans making wise sensible choices and crazy foolish choices every day. A human can be presented by the Holy Spirit the opportunity to be saved and that human can chose to be wise and sensible and accept Christ or foolish and reject Christ, just like any human with anything can make a wise or foolish choice. This false doctrine that you are believing in is because you chose to believe it. You chose to believe what you now believe...it was YOUR CHOICE.

So you keep saying Sam. Now tell me why you are so much better than anyone who didnt make the proper choice.

If its true God grants all the same oppertunity you have no choice (heh heh) than to implicitly say you are better than all those who failed.

And you are required to explain your hope, yes? So explain it, what makes you better, why are you able to respond correctly, it must e that there is something special about you. Will you hide this great light from the rest of us?

YOUR CHOICE Sam ,just like you said, now explain why your're better than your unsaved neighbor please.

 

[Who Says]

Re: S P E C I A L . . .

Luke 17:10 "So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do."

 

[Sam21]

So you keep saying Sam. Now tell me why you are so much better than anyone who didnt make the proper choice.

If its true God grants all the same oppertunity you have no choice (heh heh) than to implicitly say you are better than all those who failed.

And you are required to explain your hope, yes? So explain it, what makes you better, why are you able to respond correctly, it must e that there is something special about you. Will you hide this great light from the rest of us?

YOUR CHOICE Sam ,just like you said, now explain why your're better than your unsaved neighbor please.

I am not better than my unsaved neighbor,just better off. Is a non-smoker better than a smoker, or is he just better off because he made a better choice. You know, humans can make good or bad choices. I know a Pastor who teaches faith in Christ and the cross(a good choice), he also teaches a false return of Christ(bad choice). So does that make him better than himself or worse than himself.

 

[Hitch]

I am not better than my unsaved neighbor,just better off.

No its obvious, you think less of all the unsaved around you because you know about heaven and hell and you're better than all of them

. Is a non-smoker better than a smoker, or is he just better off because he made a better choice. You know, humans can make good or bad choices. I know a Pastor who teaches faith in Christ and the cross(a good choice), he also teaches a false return of Christ(bad choice). So does that make him better than himself or worse than himself.

Like you say Sam its all YOUR CHOICE and you made a good choice,and thats because you're
a better person. Something about you was so innately good you chose God while others around you chose death. You claimed all the credit Sam, you cant even say it was God.

And when you claimed its was all because of YOUR CHOICE you turned your back on grace. Even Paul didnt take credit for his own salvation , you're really something.

 

[Eventide]

Re: S P E C I A L . . .

Luke 17:10 "So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do."

Yeah but you're the elect right, God choose You unconditionally, allowed you to believe...

You're the special ones... And the Calvinist testimony is that they could not believe that Christ died for their sins...

And then there's that Amilennial thing... Lol

 

[Eventide]

S P E C I A L

And of course we all know that it's impossible for a Calvinist to be wrong about anything.. In their opinion the infinitely glorious living and powerful word of God is all summed up in tulip...

And then there's that Amilennial thing lol

 

[warhorse]

The very tossing off of the crown of self will was only necessary because of sin.

There would have been no such will for us to surrender if Adam had not sinned.

The logic being used saying we would be robots unless God had been given us our own free will is defective in that once we surrender that personal will to do only God's will it would be as surrendering to become robots if what that idea claims be true.

That is why it is insulting to God. It falsely claims that to be born only to do God's will would make us a robot of God. Christ who never ever did anything but the will of God is not a robot of God. So the idea insults Christ.

This robot idea assumes that if God created us to use our will and power to make choices only as he wills that would make us robots. That is a failure to appreciate that his will is the only true freedom and in no way slavery or improper control.

We were never given a will and power to make choices independent of God. God never gave us a right to choose sin. He is therefore justified to punish us for using our will in that way.

Free choice is not the same thing as free will, though. They say God gave us free will and that is something different. God did give us the ability to freely make choices but by the use of his will, not ours.

Our will cannot ever love correctly which is why the world is so confused about what love is.

Only the tossing away our own will in favor of God's will is what is required of us. That is not the same as tossing away our ability to make choices. Our free ability to make choices merely then becomes used to do Gods will instead of our own. In that we can see free choice and free will are two totally different things.

No sir, God created us to love him. Service is the natural response of love. And love is not real without free will.

 

[savedbygrace57]

sam21:

I am not better than my unsaved neighbor,just better off

But you must have considered yourself more wiser huh ? You are better off because of something you did, right ?

 

[Eventide]

sam21: But you must have considered yourself more wiser huh ? You are better off because of something you did, right ?

Amazing isn't it.. Calvinists criticizing Christians because of their testimony that they believe the gospel of God concerning His Son and that He died for our sins..

And of course the Calvinist testimony is that they can not believe it.

 

[Who Says]

No sir, God created us to love him. Service is the natural response of love. And love is not real without free will.

I still say that love is not real without God's will.

You though are welcome to try it by your will if you desire.

But you won't be no different than the rest of the world cause that is how they do it.

 

[Sam21]

sam21:



But you must have considered yourself more wiser huh ? You are better off because of something you did, right ?

I have seen this song and dance so many times in false teaching, they accuse the person of doing the wrong that they are doing(it is suppose to confuse the issue). What is incorrect in your teaching is the idea that you are better than others,so you attack others who disagree with you by claiming they believe themselves to be better,sigh! Such nonsense will not work with this old warhorse.
To deny that God created humans with the ability to recognize and chose right and reject wrong,even to the point of accepting or rejecting God, is to deny our world. The proof of choice is that people such as yourself have chosen to not only reject scripture but also the reality of our world, and choose something that pleases the ego,this is evidence in itself that your argument of no choice is false. If you could not chose, then how did you come to believe something that has to rely mostly on an idea not found in the bible?...nothing in the bible says that you were born with a golden soul while others were born with souls of clay, that is a choice.

 

[Who Says]

I To deny that God created humans with the ability to recognize and chose right and reject wrong,even to the point of accepting or rejecting God, is to deny our world.

Oh my, Sam21, don't deny or reject this poor world just because it is at enmity with God!!!

It knows the difference between right and wrong. It just always chooses the wrong !!!

Poor thing, it can't help that. It still has to know the difference between right and wrong cause I insist !!!

What is it with God anyway telling us not to be friends with the world and saying things like woe to those calling good bad and bad good!!! LOL!!!

 

[Sam21]

Oh my, Sam21, don't deny or reject this poor world just because it is at enmity with God!!!

It knows the difference between right and wrong. It just always chooses the wrong !!!

Poor thing, it can't help that. It still has to know the difference between right and wrong cause I insist !!!

What is it with God anyway telling us not to be friends with the world and saying things like woe to those calling good bad and bad good!!! LOL!!!

I have a little trouble understanding some of your posts( like this one for instance). The truth is that I have read your post several times and have no idea what point you are trying to make(you WERE making a point?).
To some degree I understand why people reject God, it is easy. King Zedekiah was given time to surrender and save his life and the life of his family,however he did not like the idea of surrender and he was living a comfortable life, so he decided to take the risk of going against God. Professing christians often times chose to reject the word of God for one reason or another, why? Probably because they are willing to take the risk,they enjoy believing what they do and they are willing to take the risk of the judgment of God.
About choice,we would all like to think that it is out of our hands,however when Jesus spoke to the churches He held them accountable for their actions which were a product of their choices.

 

[Eventide]

The Lord John Calvin..

It's really pointless to debate scripture with Calvinists for a couple reasons..

1. Everything needs to be checked with John Calvin first and filtered through tulip..
2. It's impossible for Calvinists to be proven wrong according to the scriptures..

 

[Who Says]

Professing christians often times chose to reject the word of God for one reason or another, why? Probably because they are willing to take the risk,they enjoy believing what they do and they are willing to take the risk of the judgment of God.

Jesus said those who love him obey him. And that is the crux of the matter, those you there describe really do not love God with a complete heart. If they did they would listen to him and his will would be their will.

About choice,we would all like to think that it is out of our hands,however when Jesus spoke to the churches He held them accountable for their actions which were a product of their choices.

That is a cop out. I for one am glad that it is about God's will rather than my short-sighted will because I not only love God and recognize the superiority of His will over mine, but I also love my neighbor and desire if at all possible not to live my life in a way that hurts them. And the humility and meekness in me tells me that is not going to happen if I let my imperfect will get in the way of my following God's perfect will.

That sir is the definintion of taking full responsibility for ourselves in a manner that uses instead of spurns God's provisions to help us.

We are not all that much. You must be young or you would know that.

Free-will was Adam's unlawful seizure. We were created to have a God governed will; a will synchronized with God's will. Adam tossed away our governor and look where it got us. Without that synchronization we became out of control. And anyone that thinks they can do it by their own use of free-will is continuing Adam's lie and illusion. We are not designed that way. never were and never will be.

That does not usurp what is being said in this thread concerning Calvinism. No names were written in the book of life until "FROM the foundation of the world." None but the elect Jesus Christ" was written from "BEFORE the foundation of this world."

We (if we be of those chosen for a specific purpose to be in Christ as his body of firstfruits with him) were chosen as we lived our lives "from the foundation of the world" and God made an estimate of our hearts as to whether we were suited through faith to that calling.

 

[Drew]

I generally think that "Calvinism", at least in the forms we see here, is not Biblical.

While I often engage in hand-to-hand combat over the meaning of various texts, such as Romans 9 (where I think the "vessels of destruction" are hardened Jews, not the pre-destined lost) and Ephesians 1 (where I think the "we" that are pre-destined is actually restricted to a very small number of New Testmanent persons), I think there is another reason to reject "limted atonement", based on a theme that recurs over and over again in Romans.

In Romans, Paul goes out of his way to undermine the "national boast" of Israel - namely that they are God's covenant people simply in virtue of their ethnicity – their status as a group marked out by a “national†identity. This is not so, Paul argues, and refers to the establishment of the covenant in Genesis 15 and repeats the key statement "Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness". Faith, not nationality from birth, is the criteria for covenant membership. It would seem awfully odd that Paul would argue this point and yet also believe that people are indeed “born unto salvation†after all by believing the existence of an "elect".

Even though the elect unto salvation (on the Calvinist position) are, of course, not national Israel - they still would constitute a set of people who are essentially privileged by birth unto salvation, just as the Jews believed that they were automatically members of the covenant by virtue of being born an ethnic Jew. It seems to me that this is the kind of thinking that Paul clearly repudiates in Romans, if not other places like Galatians. According to the Calvinist, while “there is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and femaleâ€, there is, apparently, indeed a distinction between “elected†and “non-electâ€.

Do you not see how strange this seems? If the Calvinist is right, Paul goes out of his way to deny that God draws any distinctions whatsoever based on variables other than faith, while at the same time believing that indeed God does have a “special people†marked out from the beginning of time in a manner entirely disconnected from matters of faith.