The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[Hitch]

I think that a massive problem within Christendom is that people could care less about false teaching.. so what if multitudes of young Christians are being force fed that they're the elect, that God chose them, that they were chosen unconditionally, that their calling was special and irresistable.. etc etc etc..

Who cares though right..

LOL Since the single qualification you have to criticize Calvin is your self professed ignorance its plain you done care at all.

By all means keep taking the easy way ,its all you can handle. Your study and research demonstrate exactly your real concern.

 

[Eventide]

let me correct you. Many christians barely know their chruches position and the difference tween arminism and calvinism. i'n my circle its the calvinists that are hard to find. actually you hold a mix of calvin and arminist with that eternal security doctrine.

my church is most arminist.

That may be your experience but certainly not mine.. there are hundreds of Calvinists where I come from and its almost inevitable that Calvinism comes up when talking to Christians in general.

 

[Eventide]

LOL Since the single qualification you have to criticize Calvin is your self professed ignorance its plain you done care at all.

By all maens keep taking the easy way,its all you can handle.

Well, let's see what you got Hitch.. you already said that you're not able to defend it because it's new to you.. so what do YOU KNOW.. ?

Go ahead, show me one place where I've spoken on Calvinism and didn't accurately define its simple minded terms.. like Total Depravity, or Unconditional Election..

You're the one who is all talk.. you know nothing and support it regardless.. that's called the blind being led by the blind.

 

[jasoncran]

That may be your experience but certainly not mine.. there are hundreds of Calvinists where I come from and its almost inevitable that Calvinism comes up when talking to Christians in general.

while i dont agree with the reformed theologian. i try not to think that they assume that they are special because they are saved.

this is why i pointed out the puritians to you. They dealt with sin real quick and didnt want it to flourish at all. unlike many churches today. ever hear a quote from Spurgeon? John Winthrop? and also Oswald Chambers. All are calvinist in nature.

 

[Hitch]

Well, let's see what you got Hitch.. you already said that you're not able to defend it because it's new to you.. so what do YOU KNOW.. ?

Go ahead, show me one place where I've spoken on Calvinism and didn't accurately define its simple minded terms.. like Total Depravity, or Unconditional Election..

You're the one who is all talk.. you know nothing and support it regardless.. that's called the blind being led by the blind.

You're on, and since I asked you to support your claims first, and often, lead the way.

 

[Eventide]

You're on, and since I asked you to support your claims first, and often, lead the way.

As I figured.. you have absolutely nothing..

 

[Eventide]

while i dont agree with the reformed theologian. i try not to think that they assume that they are special because they are saved.

this is why i pointed out the puritians to you. They dealt with sin real quick and didnt want it to flourish at all. unlike many churches today. ever hear a quote from Spurgeon? John Winthrop? and also Oswald Chambers. All are calvinist in nature.

I know, it's fine for them to insult Christians by telling them that they were wise enough to believe the simple message of the gospel.. but dare say anything against them and it's not fair right..

Sorry.. I'm a realist.. and I'm old enough to put all the touchy feely stuff aside and go right to the heart of the matter of these very 'real' issues in Christendom..

 

[jasoncran]

I know, it's fine for them to insult Christians by telling them that they were wise enough to believe the simple message of the gospel.. but dare say anything against them and it's not fair right..

Sorry.. I'm a realist.. and I'm old enough to put all the touchy feely stuff aside and go right to the heart of the matter of these very 'real' issues in Christendom..

i never said that we shouldnt challenge each other but i have no big desire to put down them either. i used to engage them alot. But the party here isnt going to change so i find it more fruitful to look for things in common.

trust me, i wouldnt try to budge you on eternal security doctrines.

 

[Hitch]

I know, it's fine for them to insult Christians by telling them that they were wise enough to believe the simple message of the gospel.. but dare say anything against them and it's not fair right..

Sorry.. I'm a realist.. and I'm old enough to put all the touchy feely stuff aside and go right to the heart of the matter of these very 'real' issues in Christendom..

Ahh so that s why you run from actually reading Calvin, LOL

Iv already asked Sam and yourself,by extension, to explain exactly how you were able to chose to follow God from a NT position reckoned as death, you declined to respond. I cant think of a better way for you to expose the basic error of 'totall depravity', can you?

Explain just how while you were dead in trespass and sin ,you, decided to become 'born-again.

 

[Eventide]

Explain just how while you were dead in trespass and sin ,you, decided to become 'born-again.

I didn't decide to become born again.. I trusted in Jesus Christ, after hearing the gospel and after I believed, GOD sealed me with the Holy Spirit..

See Hitch.. when you're fed the rubbish of Calvinism you can't even get the simplest things right.. you must misrepresent anything opposed to what you've bought into because it's impossible for you or any Cavinist to be wrong.

See, you're dead wrong here and won't be able to admit it either.

 

[Hitch]

I didn't decide to become born again.. I trusted in Jesus Christ, after hearing the gospel and after I believed, GOD sealed me with the Holy Spirit..

Hmmm then who made that decision ?

See Hitch.. when you're fed the rubbish of Calvinism you can't even get the simplest things right.. you must misrepresent anything opposed to what you've bought into because it's impossible for you or any Cavinist to be wrong.

See, you're dead wrong here and won't be able to admit it either.

Iv already asked Sam and yourself,by extension, to explain exactly how you were able to chose to follow God from a NT position reckoned as death, you declined to respond. I cant think of a better way for you to expose the basic error of 'totall depravity', can you?


Everybody's watching Even,

 

[Eventide]

Hmmm then who made that decision ?

Clearly God did Hitch.. even though you just asked me how I did it.. because that's what you've been taught..

Iv already asked Sam and yourself,by extension, to explain exactly how you were able to chose to follow God from a NT position reckoned as death, you declined to respond. I cant think of a better way for you to expose the basic error of 'totall depravity', can you?


Everybody's watching Even,

It's simple Hitch.. I believed Him when His true light showed me that I was a sinner in need of a Saviour.. how about you.. you couldn't handle that one right.. God had to allow you to agree with Him and give you that special irresistable calling..

God's watching too Hitch..

 

[Eventide]

Here's a perfectly clear example of how a Calvinist can misprepresent another Christian and then be shown in simple terms how that they're completely wrong.. and then refuse to be corrected in it... because it's impossible for the high minded Calvinist to be proven wrong in anything.

 

[Hitch]

Clearly God did Hitch.. even though you just asked me how I did it.. because that's what you've been taught..

God did? Well what did you have to do with it ? What exactly is it you were re- born into?

It's simple Hitch.. I believed Him when His true light showed me that I was a sinner in need of a Saviour.. how about you.. you couldn't handle that one right.. God had to allow you to agree with Him and give you that special irresistable calling..

Jesus said 'blessed are those given ears to hear. ' I suppose He meant God was the One giving,

''
God's watching too Hitch..

Jesus said ' you must be born-again.' You claim above that God chose you to be born again. Is being born-again the same as being 'saved' ?

 

[Eventide]

God did? Well what did you have to do with it ? What exactly is it you were born into? Jesus said 'blessed are those given ears to hear. ' I suppose He meant God was the One giving, Jesus said ' you must be born-again.' You claim above that God chose you to be born again. Is being born-again the same as being 'saved' ?

Hitch, here's what you want to hear..

I was totally depraved.. couldn't hear God or understand the simple message of the gospel.. and I hated God.. then God regenerated me and I was able to believe and repent, take up my cross and follow Him... now I know that I am the elect, and that God chose me unconditionally.. along with His only begotten Son.. because I was in Christ from before the foundation of the world..

Now you're all set right.. good.. there's no point in correcting anything about Calvinism because it's the gospel of God. All of God's inifinitely marvelous word is all summed up in tulip...

Have fun.

 

[savedbygrace57]

hitch asked:

Is being born-again the same as being 'saved' ?

Yes, subjectively it is objectively, NO, thats done by the Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus before the world began..2 tim 1:9

However in time, Jesus Christ the Saviour sheds upon all those He died for, the Holy Ghost titus 3:

6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Which saves us experientially or subjectively by regeneration and renewing vs 5

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us,[How] by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

This is also the New Birth Jesus is talking about Jn 3..so yes the New Birth saves those Christ died for...

This is also called the sanctification of the Spirit 2 thess 2:13..

 

[Hitch]

Hitch, here's what you want to hear..

I was totally depraved.. couldn't hear God or understand the simple message of the gospel.. and I hated God.. then God regenerated me and I was able to believe and repent, take up my cross and follow Him... now I know that I am the elect, and that God chose me unconditionally.. along with His only begotten Son.. because I was in Christ from before the foundation of the world..

Now you're all set right.. good.. there's no point in correcting anything about Calvinism because it's the gospel of God. All of God's inifinitely marvelous word is all summed up in tulip...

Have fun.

Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

Originally Posted by Eventide

I didn't decide to become born again.. I trusted in Jesus Christ, after hearing the gospel and after I believed, GOD sealed me with the Holy Spirit..

Response;

Originally Posted by Hitch
Hmmm then who made that decision ?

Originally Posted by Eventide
Clearly God did Hitch.. even though you just asked me how I did it.. because that's what you've been taught..


And then he took his ball and ran home crying

 

[Eventide]

Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

Originally Posted by Eventide Response;

Originally Posted by Eventide
Clearly God did Hitch.. even though you just asked me how I did it.. because that's what you've been taught..


And then he took his ball and ran home crying

Yep.. tell him what he's won !

And you're not even man enough to admit that you're wrong.. because you originally told me that I decided to be born again..

I'll waste no more time talking any sense to a two year old..

 

[Sam21]

Ahh so that s why you run from actually reading Calvin, LOL

Iv already asked Sam and yourself,by extension, to explain exactly how you were able to chose to follow God from a NT position reckoned as death, you declined to respond. I cant think of a better way for you to expose the basic error of 'totall depravity', can you?

Explain just how while you were dead in trespass and sin ,you, decided to become 'born-again.

That one is easy, because of the beautiful,wonderful,loving, kindness and mercy of God working through the Holy Spirit of God. Also, if you have never in your life had God the Spirit speak to you and offer you salvation by accepting the Son of God as Saviour, then you are still in your sins and no imagination of being born special will save you. No one can be saved unless the Spirit of God comes upon the person and convicts them of sin and shows then that faith in God's gift of Christ and his sacrifice will take away that sin and make the person accepted by God.
At my salvation experience many years ago God actually talked to me and He did not tell me I was special born, He told me I was headed for hell and must accept the Son as my Saviour and commit totally to God. It is one thing to read words and make claims, it is another thing to actually connect with God. Have you ever heard God speak? If you are really doing it right then you should have a response from the other Person.

 

[Who Says]

It is, of course, entirely legitimate for people to challenge critics of Calvinism in respect to whether such critics have indeed read Calvin and understand what he is saying. Fair enough.

This is why I make reasonable efforts to distinguish between "Calvin" and the ideas one reads here that seem, repeat seem, to be associated with Calvinism.

In a sense, the "labels" do not matter. There clearly appear to be a number of posters who ascribe to the position that, from the foundations of time, God "pre-ordained" that some would be lost and some would be saved. And when I say "pre-ordained", I do not mean to say that God "knew in advance that some would 'freely' reject the gospel and others would 'freely' accept it". Instead, I am addressing the view that God causes some people to accept and some people to reject the gospel.

I think that we can discuss this question independent of whether or not Calvin believed exactly this. And one need not have read Calvin to be qualified to discuss this issue. Of course, it would be great if we all did read Calvin - the more we know, the better.

Purposely blinding some people whose hearts are not favorably inclined is nothing more than not giving the food that belongs to the little children unto the dogs.

That in itself is not what keeps them away from the gospel. Their impenitent hearts keeps them away from the gospel and God merely does not allow them to feast with the children for that reason.

Do you agree? God does not cast pearls before swine, either.