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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !
H
Hitch
Guest
Re: Good point..
The answer is you cant quote Calvin on anything because you have no idea what you're talking about, you're just another poser crying wolf in the dark.
Calvin's titles are available everywhere , locate and produce the 'gross distortions' and show them so we can all learn from you, after all this is far too important for mere hearsay, isnt it? You cant be so shallow that you just parrot ,right?
So Even how about you support what you have to say about what Calvin does or does not do with quotes from the source?
The answer is you cant quote Calvin on anything because you have no idea what you're talking about, you're just another poser crying wolf in the dark.
Calvin's titles are available everywhere , locate and produce the 'gross distortions' and show them so we can all learn from you, after all this is far too important for mere hearsay, isnt it? You cant be so shallow that you just parrot ,right?
H
Hitch
Guest
Re: The Lord John Calvin..
Im mean you would be so unchristian as to spout off like this with out first hand knowledge, right? LOL
So how many of Calvin's titlles have you read for yourself?
Im mean you would be so unchristian as to spout off like this with out first hand knowledge, right? LOL
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
sam21:
And rightly so, you would rather for it to be you yourself that causes your salvation, than that God should have the right to choose who He eants to be saved..
You cause your ownself to differ than your neighbor, so now you can boast..
And rightly so, you would rather for it to be you yourself that causes your salvation, than that God should have the right to choose who He eants to be saved..
You cause your ownself to differ than your neighbor, so now you can boast..
Eventide
Member
Re: The Lord John Calvin..
I'd say that's about right.. it's been about 20 years of first hand knowledge speaking with more Calvinists than I could count.. it's always the same.. tulip is parroted as if it's the gospel and nothing (including the truth of scripture) can prove them wrong..
Why else would Calvinists' cleave to things like Unconditional Election or Amillennialism for so long while knowing how ridiculous it actually is.. ?
lol
I'd say that's about right.. it's been about 20 years of first hand knowledge speaking with more Calvinists than I could count.. it's always the same.. tulip is parroted as if it's the gospel and nothing (including the truth of scripture) can prove them wrong..
Why else would Calvinists' cleave to things like Unconditional Election or Amillennialism for so long while knowing how ridiculous it actually is.. ?
lol
Eventide
Member
Re: Good point..
Can you say.. U N C O N D I T I O N A L E L E C T I O N ...
Romans 9 is primarily where the false doctrine of unconditional election stems from..
Can you say.. U N C O N D I T I O N A L E L E C T I O N ...
Romans 9 is primarily where the false doctrine of unconditional election stems from..
H
Hitch
Guest
Re: Good point..
Originally Posted by Hitch 
So Even how about you support what you have to say about what Calvin does or does not do with quotes from the source?
The answer is you cant quote Calvin on anything because you have no idea what you're talking about, you're just another poser crying wolf in the dark.
Calvin's titles are available everywhere , locate and produce the 'gross distortions' and show them so we can all learn from you, after all this is far too important for mere hearsay, isnt it? You cant be so shallow that you just parrot ,right?
So Even how about you support what you have to say about what Calvin does or does not do with quotes from the source?
The answer is you cant quote Calvin on anything because you have no idea what you're talking about, you're just another poser crying wolf in the dark.
Calvin's titles are available everywhere , locate and produce the 'gross distortions' and show them so we can all learn from you, after all this is far too important for mere hearsay, isnt it? You cant be so shallow that you just parrot ,right?
Eventide
Member
Re: Good point..
20 years + of talking with Calvinists doesn't count ?
Gee Whiz.. what have I missed..! !
Originally Posted by Hitch
So Even how about you support what you have to say about what Calvin does or does not do with quotes from the source?
The answer is you cant quote Calvin on anything because you have no idea what you're talking about, you're just another poser crying wolf in the dark.
Calvin's titles are available everywhere , locate and produce the 'gross distortions' and show them so we can all learn from you, after all this is far too important for mere hearsay, isnt it? You cant be so shallow that you just parrot ,right?
20 years + of talking with Calvinists doesn't count ?
Gee Whiz.. what have I missed..! !
H
Hitch
Guest
Re: The Lord John Calvin..
Originally Posted by Hitch
So how many of Calvin's titles have you read for yourself?
Im mean you would be so unchristian as to spout off like this with out first hand knowledge, right? LOL
Yet another blind man describing a painting.
So how many of Calvin's titles have you read for yourself?
Im mean you would be so unchristian as to spout off like this with out first hand knowledge, right? LOL
Yet another blind man describing a painting.
H
Hitch
Guest
Eventide
Member
Drew
Member
It is, of course, entirely legitimate for people to challenge critics of Calvinism in respect to whether such critics have indeed read Calvin and understand what he is saying. Fair enough.
This is why I make reasonable efforts to distinguish between "Calvin" and the ideas one reads here that seem, repeat seem, to be associated with Calvinism.
In a sense, the "labels" do not matter. There clearly appear to be a number of posters who ascribe to the position that, from the foundations of time, God "pre-ordained" that some would be lost and some would be saved. And when I say "pre-ordained", I do not mean to say that God "knew in advance that some would 'freely' reject the gospel and others would 'freely' accept it". Instead, I am addressing the view that God causes some people to accept and some people to reject the gospel.
I think that we can discuss this question independant of whether or not Calvin believed exactly this. And one need not have read Calvin to be qualified to discuss this issue. Of course, it would be great if we all did read Calvin - the more we know, the better.
This is why I make reasonable efforts to distinguish between "Calvin" and the ideas one reads here that seem, repeat seem, to be associated with Calvinism.
In a sense, the "labels" do not matter. There clearly appear to be a number of posters who ascribe to the position that, from the foundations of time, God "pre-ordained" that some would be lost and some would be saved. And when I say "pre-ordained", I do not mean to say that God "knew in advance that some would 'freely' reject the gospel and others would 'freely' accept it". Instead, I am addressing the view that God causes some people to accept and some people to reject the gospel.
I think that we can discuss this question independant of whether or not Calvin believed exactly this. And one need not have read Calvin to be qualified to discuss this issue. Of course, it would be great if we all did read Calvin - the more we know, the better.
H
Hitch
Guest
It may well be possible but it wont happen. With a few exceptions.
Were truth the object it wouldnt be necessary to expose the utter and willful ignorance of the local 'I hate Calvin because my daddy did' society.
Im not concerned with whether anyone agrees or no wrt Calvin, but the loudest critics have proven over and again to be the most ignorant, pretending all the while they have personal knowledge of the subject. Its not different from those scoffers who claim great bible knowledge and have never read through even a single Gospel, and equally as christian, which naturally shows through the judgemental nature of so many of the posts.
Not being an able defender, as Im new to Calvin is the reason I dont spend much time with it.
Eventide
Member
Drew
Member
Re: Good point..
The entire chapter, and more broadly chapters 9 to 11 is clearly about how the fate of national Israel is woven together in the purposes of God with the fate of the Gentiles. The question of all humans being elected to salvation or to loss is nowhere on Paul's mind.
Yet this material repeatedly is used to support the "pre-destination" position (in the sense that all humans are either pre-destined to loss or to salvation). This shows the power of an agenda - if we want to "see" a certain text as supporting a certain postion we have come to accept as true on other grounds, we will often make every possible move to do so, no matter how much the author's clear intent gets trampled in the process.
I certainly agree that Romans 9 is erroneously seen as supporting the notion that all human beings were either "elected unconditionally" to salvation or to loss.
The entire chapter, and more broadly chapters 9 to 11 is clearly about how the fate of national Israel is woven together in the purposes of God with the fate of the Gentiles. The question of all humans being elected to salvation or to loss is nowhere on Paul's mind.
Yet this material repeatedly is used to support the "pre-destination" position (in the sense that all humans are either pre-destined to loss or to salvation). This shows the power of an agenda - if we want to "see" a certain text as supporting a certain postion we have come to accept as true on other grounds, we will often make every possible move to do so, no matter how much the author's clear intent gets trampled in the process.
Eventide
Member
Re: Good point..
I agree Drew and unfortunately there are multitudes of young Christians being fed the nonsense of Calvinism.. and seeing that the vast majority of Calvinists are amillenial, they're most likely going to be taught that the church of God is 'spiritual Israel'.. and therefore they'll ignore the mystery pertaining to that nation which is blinded in part until the fulness of the gentiles be come in.
I agree Drew and unfortunately there are multitudes of young Christians being fed the nonsense of Calvinism.. and seeing that the vast majority of Calvinists are amillenial, they're most likely going to be taught that the church of God is 'spiritual Israel'.. and therefore they'll ignore the mystery pertaining to that nation which is blinded in part until the fulness of the gentiles be come in.
H
Hitch
Guest
jasoncran
Member
while i dont agree with calvinism at all. i do think that for the most part the reformers after calvin have had a positive impact. eventide you are an american. You should read some of the works of the puritians and what they taught that we today need to return too. save the witchhunts.
Eventide
Member
I think that a massive problem within Christendom is that people could care less about false teaching.. so what if multitudes of young Christians are being force fed that they're the elect, that God chose them, that they were chosen unconditionally, that their calling was special and irresistable.. etc etc etc..
Who cares though right..
jasoncran
Member
let me correct you. Many christians barely know their chruches position and the difference tween arminism and calvinism. i'n my circle its the calvinists that are hard to find. actually you hold a mix of calvin and arminist with that eternal security doctrine.
my church is most arminist.