The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[Eventide]

I have no evidence you can see..

Yeah... I was told this by another poster the other day.. he was telling me that he had the truth and that it could not be understood by me, and that he was ordained by God yada yada yada...

Amazing isn't it.. as if Calvinists' have a corner on the truth and others can't understand it.. I don't see any greater form of religious pride than these type of comments.. and they typically come from high minded Calvinists.

 

[Hitch]

LOl@Even

 

[Guap]

guap:



I have no evidence you can see, but I already told you, those in 1 jn 2:2 and Jn 1 29 have no sins to be punished for. Both places speaks of those whoses sins have been taken away from before God, which we know cannot apply to everyone without exception..

So the evidence you reject because it can't mean what it says. It says the world, but can't mean that because the world isn't saved. Is that it?

But that isn't the case. Just because the sins are taken away doesn't mean we are reconciled with God. I can forgive someone without being reconciled to them. When we are reconciled with God, we are saved. It takes confession of sins in order to be reconciled with God. If I don't confess my sins, then I'm not reconciled with God, and despite my sins being taken away or forgiven, I'm going to hell.

But of course, I'm sure you'll reject this becuase it doesn't fit into your thinking. So instead, you change the plain meaning of scripture to fit what you think the bible SHOULD mean.

 

[cleanfreak]

Actually you asked several including ;

If you believe all that you have posted, then why even witness at all? What would be the purpose?

..........and the question is still unanswered along with this one:

If they accept Christ as their Savior and then fall away,are they still considered "chosen"? Did God change his mind about them?

You found no value in my response, except to say it was misleading

Correct.

Show me who's sins are forgiven and is sent to hell.

Eventide has correctly answered your question as I did in my previous post.

How about answering all my question's? One of the question's above has been asked at least 5 times now with no answer. I wonder why?

 

[savedbygrace57]

clean asked:

If they accept Christ as their Savior and then fall away,are they still considered "chosen"? Did God change his mind about them?

The chosen cannot fall away..so if one falls away from the Faith the True Faith that is , then they were never saved in the first place..

1 jn states that He that is born of God cannot sin, which means fall away from the Faith

1 jn 3:9

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[savedbygrace57]

guap:

Just because the sins are taken away doesn't mean we are reconciled with God.

In your way of thinking sure.. But Jesus took away the sins of the world, and that world cannot and will not be punished for no sin period..because Jesus Christ was punished for it, and God is satisfied and that world has been given eternal life Jn 6:33

For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth[not offer] life unto the world.

Thats the elect world, which had its sins taken away..

 

[cleanfreak]

clean asked:




The chosen cannot fall away..so if one falls away from the Faith the True Faith that is , then they were never saved in the first place..

1 jn states that He that is born of God cannot sin, which means fall away from the Faith

1 jn 3:9

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

so you are perfect and do not sin?.........................:biglol

this is the most absurd post I have ever read.

still laughing :toofunny

 

[Sam21]

guap:



In your way of thinking sure.. But Jesus took away the sins of the world, and that world cannot and will not be punished for no sin period..because Jesus Christ was punished for it, and God is satisfied and that world has been given eternal life Jn 6:33

For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth[not offer] life unto the world.

Thats the elect world, which had its sins taken away..

There is still a really big flaw in your position that you cannot answer...what proof do YOU have that YOU are one of the elect??? It always goes back to you being one of the elect BECAUSE YOU think you are one of the elect...that is just not scriptural proof at all. All the JWs,Mormons, every cult, they are all convinced that they are saved...so just being personally convinced that you are saved is no real evidence at all that you are of the elect. So what evidence from the BIBLE do you have that you are one of the ELECT,did God personally tell you? Sorry but your personal opinion that you are one of the elect is about the same as your personal opinion that you are the smartest, best looking person in your town...the evidence is all coming from YOU. My point is simple, christians KNOW they are saved because they had a salvation experience that agrees with the bible, that is the only way you can know that you are saved.

 

[Guap]

guap:



In your way of thinking sure.. But Jesus took away the sins of the world, and that world cannot and will not be punished for no sin period..because Jesus Christ was punished for it, and God is satisfied and that world has been given eternal life Jn 6:33

For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth[not offer] life unto the world.

Thats the elect world, which had its sins taken away..

Isn't God the one who gives life to all? Or are non-believers really zombies?

 

[Hitch]

..........and the question is still unanswered along with this one:

If they accept Christ as their Savior and then fall away,are they still considered "chosen"? Did God change his mind about them?

Lots of folks say the sinner's prayer and all that, can you tell me whether they were really converted or not? You should understand from the parable that God is well aware that some of the seed sprouts and fails I'll include paragraph on Reformed regeneration;

Regeneration is the sovereign act of God whereby He imparts His very life and His very nature to the believing sinner (John 1:12-13; Titus 3:5). Man’s first birth is natural; his second birth is spiritual and supernatural. His first birth makes him a member of a fallen race; his second birth makes him a member of a redeemed race. His first birth gives him a depraved nature (Eph. 2:3); his second birth makes him partaker of the divine nature (2 Pet. 1:4). The moment a person is born again he receives a new life (John 6:47; 1 John 5:12) and a new position as a child of God (John 1:12; 1 John 3:1-2). In short, he is a new creature in Christ (2 Cor. 5:17).

.

Correct.

Then its stupid for you to ask me further questions.

Eventide has correctly answered your question as I did in my previous post.

How about answering all my question's? One of the question's above has been asked at least 5 times now with no answer. I wonder why?

see above

 

[Hitch]

There is still a really big flaw in your position that you cannot answer...what proof do YOU have that YOU are one of the elect??? It always goes back to you being one of the elect BECAUSE YOU think you are one of the elect...that is just not scriptural proof at all. All the JWs,Mormons, every cult, they are all convinced that they are saved...so just being personally convinced that you are saved is no real evidence at all that you are of the elect. So what evidence from the BIBLE do you have that you are one of the ELECT,did God personally tell you? Sorry but your personal opinion that you are one of the elect is about the same as your personal opinion that you are the smartest, best looking person in your town...the evidence is all coming from YOU. My point is simple, christians KNOW they are saved because they had a salvation experience that agrees with the bible, that is the only way you can know that you are saved.

LOL There is nothing more subjective than the often very emotional 'conversion experience' . This is proof of exactly nothing. It is entirely fashion and opinion based, actually the very things your post pretends to criticize.

 

[Hitch]

Isn't God the one who gives life to all? Or are non-believers really zombies?

Nope ,not un-dead, dead.

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

 

[savedbygrace57]

Gu asked:

Isn't God the one who gives life to all?

Sure Physical Life or Natural Life, but Spiritual Life, No its restricted to His elect..

 

[Guap]

Gu asked:



Sure Physical Life or Natural Life, but Spiritual Life, No its restricted to His elect..

But where does the passagae say it is spiritual life? that is the point.
Later Jesus talks about eternal life, spiritual life, distinguishing it from life here.

 

[savedbygrace57]

gu:

But where does the passagae say it is spiritual life?

Where does it say its not ? That it is certainly the case, man receives his physical life from Adam.. Christ came to give spiritual life and that more abundantly to His sheep Jn 10:

I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Jn 17:2

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Christ would not need to come down from heaven to give physical life to His creatures..He came down to give Life by giving His Life..

Jn 6:

For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

Sorry if you cannot distinguish..

 

[cleanfreak]

Lots of folks say the sinner's prayer and all that, can you tell me whether they were really converted or not? You should understand from the parable that God is well aware that some of the seed sprouts and fails I'll include paragraph on Reformed regeneration;

Regeneration is the sovereign act of God whereby He imparts His very life and His very nature to the believing sinner (John 1:12-13; Titus 3:5). Man’s first birth is natural; his second birth is spiritual and supernatural. His first birth makes him a member of a fallen race; his second birth makes him a member of a redeemed race. His first birth gives him a depraved nature (Eph. 2:3); his second birth makes him partaker of the divine nature (2 Pet. 1:4). The moment a person is born again he receives a new life (John 6:47; 1 John 5:12) and a new position as a child of God (John 1:12; 1 John 3:1-2). In short, he is a new creature in Christ (2 Cor. 5:17).

. Then its stupid for you to ask me further questions. see above

Then stupid is as stupid does I suppose.

The sinners prayer? Really? Do a study on such then get back with me.

The scripture states all we have to do is believe. We can say things all we want, believing is another matter. I cannot tell you if they were converted or not, but neither can you. That is between them and God.

I agree with your post in purple above. However, it does not answer my question about those who choose to no longer believe.

Still awaiting a correct answer if you choose to try again.

 

[Guap]

gu:



Where does it say its not ? That it is certainly the case, man receives his physical life from Adam.. Christ came to give spiritual life and that more abundantly to His sheep Jn 10:

I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Jn 17:2

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Christ would not need to come down from heaven to give physical life to His creatures..He came down to give Life by giving His Life..

Jn 6:

For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

Sorry if you cannot distinguish..

Note the difference. In John 17, there is a word modifying life - eternal.
Where is it John 6? So is there a difference? If John felt the need to specific one as eternal life, and the other merely as life I suspect he did that for a reason.

Are you saying Adam gave life to all the world? Sounds like you are making Adam god.

 

[savedbygrace57]

hitch:

Regeneration is the sovereign act of God whereby He imparts His very life and His very nature to the believing sinner (John 1:12-13; Titus 3:5).

Be specific here, which comes first the believing or the imparted life ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

gua:

Note the difference. In John 17, there is a word modifying life - eternal.
Where is it John 6? So is there a difference?

Uh No..

Life and Eternal Life are sometimes the same..

Matt 18:9

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Life here is eternal life..

In Matt 25:46

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Are you saying Adam gave life to all the world?

No, God gave men physical life through Adam, when God told Adam to be fruitful and multiply..all the physical lives of men were made in Adam..

Acts 17:

26And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

God gives spiritual Life through Jesus Christ..1 jn 4:9

In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

Jesus is not a natural man, but a spiritual man, adam was the natural man:

1 cor 15:

46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.


47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

I am seeing that you cannot understand these things..

The Life Jesus gives is not physical life sir, its spiritual life Jn 6:

33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

The bread here is not physical bread, but its spiritual life and nurishment..

Now if you do not want to accept it, thats on you, I am through repeating it..

 

[Hitch]

Then stupid is as stupid does I suppose.

The sinners prayer? Really? Do a study on such then get back with me.

The scripture states all we have to do is believe. We can say things all we want, believing is another matter. I cannot tell you if they were converted or not, but neither can you. That is between them and God.

I agree with your post in purple above. However, it does not answer my question about those who choose to no longer believe.

Since you are unable to define them ,see above in bold, It silly of you to demand that I do. But you managed to arrive at the proper response That is between them and God.

Still awaiting a correct answer if you choose to try again.[/QUOTE] What part of its stupid for you to ask me questions dont you understand?