The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[Guap]

And 2 Peter is addressed to who?
2Pe 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

those who have obtained a faith - is that israel?

 

[savedbygrace57]

And 2 Peter is addressed to who?
2Pe 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

those who have obtained a faith - is that israel?

Yes its written to them that have obtained like precious Faith. There were some ethnic jews like peter himself who had obtained this faith.

Peter was sent to the circumcision gal 2:

But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles )

Peter was a under Shepherd to a jewish flock 1 pet 5:

1The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

Now that does not mean he would forbid gentile believers from fellowship, but his calling by God was to feed the jewish sheep in general. Why do you think he uses that jewish history in 2 pet 2 to get his point across ? Because they would be familiar with jewish history more so than gentiles would be. Its really not that difficult..

Besides all that, you have ignored many many posts of mine that prove why Jesus death could not have been for all without exception, because of its limited effects to only some men.

If you gonna believe that some who Christ redeemed by His blood can still be false teachers, so be it. Just know you have not proved it by scripture.

 

[savedbygrace57]

guap asked:

bought out of Egypt?
I think they were brought out of Egypt. where does SCRIPTURE ever say they were bought out of Egypt.

I just gave you the reference deut 32:6

Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?

What do you think that has reference to ?

 

[Guap]

guap asked:



I just gave you the reference deut 32:6

Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?

What do you think that has reference to ?

But how is this letter, written to 'those who have faith', about Israel's history?

 

[savedbygrace57]

But how is this letter, written to 'those who have faith', about Israel's history?

I have nothing else for you..

 

[Guap]

Isa 53:6 (ESV) All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned--every one--to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

So we 'all have gone astray' and the Lord has laid on him the 'inquity of us all'.
All who went away are the same as those for whom Jesus died!

 

[savedbygrace57]

More on Redemption ! Secures unto us our regeneration



Titus 2::

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

When Jesus told Nicodemus that ye must be born again, of course He was not commanding him to be born again, for that would be like telling him he must enter back into his mothers womb, but Jesus was stating to him a condition for being able to enter into the Kingdom of God, and I know many would agree with this conclusion.

However there is another reason why one must be born again, if indeed Jesus died for their sins, and that is so they may have a new life in order to now serve God pleasingly in Spirit and in Truth, for they now must serve Him in the newness of life. rom 6:4

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The word for newness is the greek word kainotēs:

newness

a) in the new state of life in which the Holy Spirit places us so as to produce a new state which is eternal life.

Thats right, God's Justice provides for and demands a Newness of Life to serve Him. All for whom Christ died and redeemed must be made alive, because Christ has died the death that they have deserved and has merited for them the Full Blessing of Eternal Life. Rom 6:

23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Lets look at rom 5:

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.As a end result of the redemption we have in Christ, notice the b section of the verse :

"even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men[without distinction] unto justification of life."

Now Legal, forensic Justification as important as it is, it was not God's only objective for Christ's redeeming death. His death was also purposed to give Life, and this Life comes through the Spirit. Its by His Gift of the Holy Spirit, unto all for whom Christ died and redeem, we receive Justification unto Life ! based solely upon one act of righteousness or as it states in vs 19, His one act of obedience: Justification unto life by the Spirit is also what Paul refers to in 1 cor 6:


11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Justification unto or into life by the Spirit. This must be because the old life has been crucified with the Lord Jesus Christ, all of its sins , past, present and future have been blotted out once and for all, so now we must be born again to serve in the Newness of Life, Gods Justice demands it for Christ sake.

 

[Guap]

Praise God! This is wonderful ...
only it doesn't dispute that Jesus died for all men!

 

[savedbygrace57]

Praise God! This is wonderful ...
only it doesn't dispute that Jesus died for all men!

Yes it does, for all men without exception do not receive the newness of Life that Jesus death effects to them He died for..The death of Christ secures and makes certain all for whom He died is born again..

 

[Sinthesis]

2 Peter 2:1 (ESV)
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

So if they deny the Master (Jesus) which brings upon them destruction - how are they bought by him? Clearly these are people for whom Jesus died, who are headed for destruction.

Your argument is even more convincing in the KJV.

2Pe 2:1 ¶ But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 - And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 - And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.​

Also:

Jud 1:3 ¶ Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jud 1:4 - For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.​

The only way one can corrupt grace is if God in fact granted grace through the death of His Son to all, even those who would not respect their free gift.

 

[Hitch]

The only way one can corrupt grace is if God in fact granted grace through the death of His Son to all, even those who would not respect their free gift.

Worth repeating.

 

[savedbygrace57]

The Negative consequences ! -



The Negative consequences that dishonor God, if Christ death does not actually save all for whom Christ died ! If the unscriptural man made doctrine that Christ died for all without exception is true it:

1. Reflects poorly on the Wisdom of God in that He purposed for all mens salvation and was disappointed in that purpose, which does not say much for Christ being the Wisdom of God 1 cor 1:

24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

2:


2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

3And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

2. It reflects poorly on the Justice of God, in fact it denotes Him as being unjust, to Christ and to those Christ died for [1 cor 15:3] Because He did not discharge them,,even though all their sins and transgressions were answered for by their Surety, or it would seem that the death of their Surety was enough to make a full forgiveness of sins for them.

3. This gives sinners reason to boast, for it appears that all the efficacy and success of all that Christ has accomplished has been put on hold until something is done by the sinner, something obviously Christ did not do, and so sinners become a principal in procuring their own Salvation or deliverance. Now men may fool themselves with their false humility, stating that there is nothing meritorious about accepting a gift, but the honest Truth is, if that is what made the difference in the eternal affair of being saved or Lost, then it may be accounted to their decision, their wisdom or prudence which made the difference and not Christ. They also can always feel better about themselves than their neighbor who may be lost for not being as wise as they were, which is a secret boast before God..

 

[Eventide]

Re: The Myth of SBG

Well at least Calvinists can thank their lucky stars that God choose them unconditionally.. and that they didn't need to repent or trust in Christ, and that their calling was irresistable..

You Calvinists are SO SPECIAL..

 

[savedbygrace57]

How do those That Christ died for receive the Atonement ?

rom 5:


11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.


The word atonement here is the greek word :

katallagē:


) exchange

a) of the business of money changers, exchanging equivalent values

2) adjustment of a difference, reconciliation, restoration to favour

a) in the NT of the restoration of the favour of God to sinners that repent and put their trust in the expiatory death of Christ

The word is used here also:

rom 11:

15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

2 cor 5:

18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So what is Paul saying in the text of rom 5:11 ?

He is saying that we, all those Christ died for, receive the benefit of the atonement by or through Jesus Christ, that is , He ensures that its benefits are received by those He died for. He ensures that by the Holy Spirit, whom He sends, applies those benefits to those He died for, thats another role of His as Mediator. The Holy Spirit because of Christ reveals to each child of mercy that they had a covenant interest in Christ blood: Jn 16:

14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Initially that applied to His disciple's, but it also applies to His Church, His body. And through this effectual application they or we become Justified in our own consciousness by Faith, hence by this we receive the atonement, the comfort of it, and the peace of it..

 

[savedbygrace57]

More on Redemption ! Secures unto us our regeneration

Justification unto or into life by the Spirit. This must be because the old life has been crucified with the Lord Jesus Christ, all of its sins , past, present and future have been blotted out once and for all, so now we must be born again to serve in the Newness of Life, Gods Justice demands it for Christ sake.

So Legal Justification by the blood of Christ, and forgiveness of all sins because of the blood of Christ, this demands that all Christ died for be made New Creatures. This is so because the end or purpose of being redeemed was for:

1. To redeem us [All Christ died for, His Church] from all lawlessness or iniquity Titus 2:14

2a. To Purify to Himself a particular People as His very unique possession [ This speaks to the Truth of particular redemption] Titus 2:14

2b. To create a people zealous of good works which He had been before ordained see eph 2:

10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

And these specific purposes and ends for redemption is effected by our regeneration, being born of the Spirit into His Kingdom. So redemption secures for us a New Creation, in order to live in the newness of Life and to perform the God ordained Spiritual Works He has prepared for us to walk in them.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Christ applies redemption as well !

The Lord Jesus Christ in His Threefold Mediatorial Character as Priest, prophet and King, makes sure that the Salvation He accomplished for all those He died for, is experienced by them, that is, not only was His blood a bare purchase and then He sets back and offers it, but also by Him as King, He applies it to its subjects to give it effect, to bestow its benefits of grace, they being destined to be conformed into His image, which is their total salvation.

For this cause He was invested with all power in both heaven and earth as per Matt 28:

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Jn 17:

2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give[apply] eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

The word power in Matt 28 18 and Jn 17 2 is the greek word exousia:


power of choice, liberty of doing as one pleases

a) leave or permission

2) physical and mental power

a) the ability or strength with which one is endued, which he either possesses or exercises

3) the power of authority (influence) and of right (privilege)

Jesus made this point very clear, that He has all Power to His [Disciples] at their commission. This was not just to be saying that He has all power, but in and through their witness of the Truth of His death, He would be applying that which He purchased as Priest [His offering of Himself] by His own blood, their salvation.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Christ applies redemption as well cont



In Christ's Threefold Character as Priest, Prophet and King, each plays a role in the salvation of those He died and rose, as their Priest, He offered Himself for them, purchases their liberty, their right to life. Heb 7:

Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

Heb 9:14

How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

lk 4:18

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Notice, the effect , Jesus said He is to set at liberty those that are bruised, not offer them liberty, not make it possible, but He actually sets them at liberty..Its the same word for send forth

Matt 13:


41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

You see, He is acting as King when He sends forth His Angels, to gather out of His Kingdom !

So He applies as King, His work as Priest, He applies the redemption of His blood that He offered..

He sets or makes them free Jn 8:36

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

The word make means "to set at liberty" from the dominion of sin !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Christ applies redemption as well cont



Now it has been shown from scripture that Christ as Mediator, plays a Threefold role in the salvation He accomplished by and through His death of the cross, and present sitting on His Throne of Glory. He was the Priest that offered Himself, shed His blood for the sins of all His People, jew or gentile, and He is the Prophet that makes Known this salvation to His People that He died for, and finally, He is the Great King that applies and give effect to this salvation to all that He died. He applies His Salvation by sending the work of the Spirit unto each one He died for, that He [The Holy Spirit] will quicken them with New Life, that He would work in them to both will and to do of His good pleasure.

This is why it is immediately said upon His ascension to the Throne, that He received from the Father, as a reward for His cross work] the Holy Ghost acts 2:33

Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

The Holy Ghost is the promise given to Christ that He may shed forth upon all His seed.

This is spoken of in Isa 44:

1Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen:

2Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.

3For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

Also alluding to this at the ascension of Christ and He having received in order to give gifts to men is eph 4:

8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

The Holy Spirit embodies all the gifts needed for the completion and application of Christ redeeming work, and this is as King, having conquered, that He sends Him [The Holy Spirit] forth. It is the Holy Spirit whom Christ shed or pours forth that regenerates and renews all those Christ died for, this is taught here titus 3:

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Note, the word gifts in eph 4:8 is the greek word doma, and its the same word used for gifts in lk 11:13

when speaking of the giving of the Holy Spirit :

13If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

And thats what King Jesus applies or sheds forth to His redeemed Church !

All the Mediatorial Offices of Christ are essential, not one of them can be neglected. The Office of King can be supposed to supersede that of Prophet and Priest, as it could be supposed that Prophet and Priest could supersede that of King, for it would be meaningless to speak of applying what has not been procured or purchased, but even more senseless to speak of procuring or purchasing what would not be applied, by the purchaser..

 

[savedbygrace57]

He died for the seed of Abraham ! -

That God dealt specifically with the Nation of Israel, they were a type, in That he was indicating that He had a interest in a specific People, and not all people in the world. So thats why when He became incarnate, He took on the seed of a specific people ,the seed of Abraham heb 2:

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. cp Gal 3:

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You see, contrary to what people teach and believe, Abraham's seed is comprised of both jew and gentile if they are of Faith. Now it was necessary that He should take part of the same flesh of blood, in which His Children heb 2:

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

had transgressed the Law in Adam, so He could legally be identified with them in their low state.

He only identified with their sins, not with the sins of all people without exception. The key for the universality of His death, is that the specific seed of Abraham was universal gen 17:

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

 

[MarkT]

Another popular Myth in the religious world today, is the Jesus Christ died or gave His Life for everyone in the world without exception, but the problem with that, is there is not one shred of scripture evidence that states that.

The scripture however does say that He died for His Sheep or His Church as per Jn 10:

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

eph 5:

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

His People Isa 53:

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. cp Matt 1:21

Now, are all without exception His Sheep ? No

Are all without exception His Church ? No

Are all without exception His People ? No

For surely the children of the devil Jn 8:44 cannot be of His Sheep, His Church, or His People.

So why does the religous world proclaim that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception, when they have no scripture proof ? Because it is a Myth.

I think it's because God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. What's wrong with all men? Even if all men were to go after Satan, God is faithful - it wouldn't negate his love.

I think you're confusing the sons of the kingdom with the field; the shepherds with the sheep. Yes, Satan has children - his sons, and God has children - his sons, and we are doing battle for the soul. It doesn't negate our love. Do we not rejoice when we find another sheep?

I agree that the hell of fire was made for the devil and his sons, and that he is a deceiver, and that many will be led astray, and that even the elect are at risk - so God will shorten the days of our tribulation - but that doesn't negate God's love or the words of his Son.