The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[Stormcrow]

Now in this counsel, God the Father is the Primary Being who purposed Redemption, for it was He who chose who would be saved and redeemded Eph 1:3-11, He foreordained His Son 1 Pet 1:20; Rev 13:8; in time sent Him into the world 1 Jn 4:14, and in doing so, the Father punished Christ for the sins of all those He loved and had chosen Isa 53:6,8,10 and rasised Him from the dead acts 3:26; Rom 10:9, and finally exalted Him to His right hand, and all Acts 2:33;5:31. All this was from Purposed by the Father from Eternity..

Calvinist, right?

 

[Eventide]

Calvinist, right?

Now that's funny ! Yeah, SBG is about as Calvinist as it gets..

 

[Elijah674]

Now in this counsel, God the Father is the Primary Being who purposed Redemption, for it was He who chose who would be saved and redeemded Eph 1:3-11, He foreordained His Son 1 Pet 1:20; Rev 13:8; in time sent Him into the world 1 Jn 4:14, and in doing so, the Father punished Christ for the sins of all those He loved and had chosen Isa 53:6,8,10 and rasised Him from the dead acts 3:26; Rom 10:9, and finally exalted Him to His right hand, and all Acts 2:33;5:31. All this was from Purposed by the Father from Eternity..

What you are describing is the ETERNAL PLAN of the Co-Equal Godhead. Jehovah, Christ, Holy SPIRIT [GOD]. You bring up the plan of the 'son' as if Christ God was always a Son. And that is not the way that the Bible has it. It was ALL IN THEIR PLAN TO BE! Even Prov. 8:30-31 [AS ONE BROUGHT UP WITH HIM..'] still finds Christ as the PLANED Son to be when read.. PLAYING IN THE STREETS'.
And Psalms 1:7 finds the plan to be in the future 'DECREED' or to be brought forth. (as Paul understood in Acts 13:32-33 as the 'time' being fullfilled.) And Heb. 1:5 finds what day that Christ [BECAME THE SON].

Perhaps one might read Rom. 4:17's last part of the verse, for us to see how the Word of God speak's at times, because Their Word is Eternally KNOWN & IS ETERNALL DONE TO THEM! So the PLAN'S Son is spoken as a DONE PLAN.

--Elijah

 

[savedbygrace57]

Calvinist, right?

I think its fit to warn you, that its a serious matter before God, to ascribe to the man calvin, the doctrine that God has revealed..

 

[Sam21]

Exactly who did Jesus Christ die for ? Was it for every person to ever live, or did died only for the ones the Father had Chosen to save ? Was His mission for coming to make Salvation a possibility for everyone, ore was it to actually guarantee the Salvation of the Elect by His death Rom 8:33-34.

This matter of the extent of Christ death is of momentous importance, to the point of even determining if we are in a saved or lost condition; for it is linked up with what Christ actually did when He died and rose again. Scripture is more than clear that Christ died for all that shall believe in Him Jn 17:20, those who the Father Chose and whom the Holy Spirit brings to Faith or the belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13. This understanding of Christ only have died for the elect can be called Victorious Atonement or Redemption. The Whole Godhead is involved in the Salvation of the Elect, the Three Beings in the Trinity having convened in the Counsel of the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20, Each Being having a very special role. Understanding this will give evidence of a Victorious Atonement and to give God all the Glory for Salvation, to whom alone it is due.

You tread into the undisclosed councils of the Godhead in your imagination,and assume that you know the unrevealed mind of God. Why one person will accept Christ and another will not can only be know if you are God,humans cannot REALLY know such things. Why does one person chose to eat correct and exercise and another person choses to eat junk and lay around? Why does one person chose to take up smoking and anothers does not? To the point, why does one person chose(and it is a choice)to believe they are created to be an elite person(you) while others cannot conceive that God made them any better than anyone else(me)? Choice! God KNOWS why we chose,but humans cannot,even if someone tells you why they choose, that does not mean that that is the reason. You seek to tread where only God qualifies to tread. Why not just accept John 3:16 for what it says,God gave Jesus to the world that whosoever believes, we can all obviously believe...IF we choose to.

 

[MarkT]

mark:



No He didnt. People are going to hell that Jesus did not die for. Matt 7:

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matt 25:

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

SBG

It doesn't mean he didn't die for them. When Jesus comes he will separate the sheep from the goats. In effect the sheep from the sheep. And who are they; the sheep and the goats? They both profess Jesus saying he is the Christ. They both feed on good pasture. But it's not enough for the goats. They tread on the rest of their pasture with their feet and they pollute the clear water with their feet. The good pasture is the word of God and the clear water is the word of eternal life. For two thousand years now people have been treading on the word of God. They have gone after false teachers who feed them what they want to hear. They have been feeding on some good pasture and treading the rest.

Now I admit you have some spiritual understanding. Which is good. And your belief will save you. But instead of following after any particular teacher, I would say people should read the Bible. They should have root in themselves.

As for the elect, they will be gathered. If they are gathered, then they are not the ones who will be separated. Two thousand years ago the elect were fed by the apostles, and their teaching was true so that the church was the elect, but fast forward to today, the elect are few, the true church is not a denomination. The true church may be only four- two men and two women working in the field.

Would you agree he died for the true church? You're right he died for his sheep. Jesus told you no one is able to snatch them away from the Father. If you believe this, then you are of God, and rest assured

But continue to grow in the knowledge of God. And don't throw your pearls before swine. If they are not of God, they will turn and attack you. So you will know them by their fruits.

 

[savedbygrace57]

mark:

It doesn't mean he didn't die for them

Yes it does, because if He did, they have already been punished and God has no reason to punish them..Its impossible for anyone Christ died for to hear the words Matt 7:


23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[savedbygrace57]

sam:

You tread into the undisclosed councils of the Godhead

I am giving you the Truth..

 

[savedbygrace57]

Those who Christ did not die for !



People who Christ did not die for and in the place of are going to die in their sins, those sins that broke God's law. All sinners whom Christ did not die for are still responsible to God and held accountable for every sin against Him and His Holiness, because He is their Creator. For the strength of sin is the Law 1Cor 15:56.

However all for whom Christ died for, by His Body, have died once and for all to the Law Rom 7:

4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

This verse assures all those who Christ died for shall be married to Christ, that is they shall receive a spiritual life that is indicative of having died to the law with Christ. This is not because of their Faith or repentance that they are dead to the Law, but by the Body of Christ. see Gal 2:19

Yes, in the literal body body of Christ, though in a mystical way, their surety, they [all for whom Christ died] have suffered the extreme penalty of God's Most Holy Law, and that Law can no more punish them for their sins again, no more than the state can execute the law on a criminal that is already dead.

So all for whom Christ died are dead to the law, secure as a dead man against the Legal vengeance that awaits all those who Christ died not die for, for through His death, we have been delivered from the wrath to come. Rom 5:9 & 1 Thess 1:10

This has absolutely nothing to do with one's believing it or receiving it[The knowledge of it] by Faith, though that will
occur, but solely resting upon the Death or Blood of Christ.

We may sum it like this" The Church, because of her own legal death upon the cross within her Head, she has escaped the dominion of her first husband, the Law, so now in a new resurrected life [regeneration] she may be married to another, even to Him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God..

But those who Christ did not for, they have much to fear in that day, for they are under dominion of the Law..

 

[MarkT]

mark:



Yes it does, because if He did, they have already been punished and God has no reason to punish them..Its impossible for anyone Christ died for to hear the words Matt 7:


23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So they were destined to believe for a while, and then they were destined to fall away. I don't see any conflict there. If Jesus died for the sins of the world, I'm not saying he died for them per se. I agree he died for his sheep, those who will inherit the kingdom. However, if they were once believers, then they would have been baptised, and they would have had their sins forgiven.

Jesus said, 'If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers.' John 15:6

The point is, believers can fall away; mostly because they love the world, and they love their life, and they don't see any benefit in Christ, and they don't want him to rule over them.

Paul said, 'For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned. Hebrews 6:4-8

I'm not saying Jesus died for all men without exception. I'm saying he died for the remission of sin. He gave himself as a ransom for all, as Paul said. 1 Timothy 2:6

 

[savedbygrace57]

mark:

So they were destined to believe for a while, and then they were destined to fall away.

Thats not the issue, the issue is Christ never knew them, which meant He never died for them, so their sins remained unpaid for. Everyone Christ died for He knew them, and He died for their sins and He would never say I never knew you to them under any circumstances..

 

[MarkT]

mark:



Thats not the issue, the issue is Christ never knew them, which meant He never died for them, so their sins remained unpaid for. Everyone Christ died for He knew them, and He died for their sins and He would never say I never knew you to them under any circumstances..

Why would he say he never knew them if he knew them? Circular argument.

It’s not a question of whether God forgives you. It’s a question of whether you forgive others. If you confess your sins and repent and ask God to forgive you, God will forgive you. If you love God, you will keep his commandments; love your brethren, do unto others, help the saints, show mercy, forgive those who trespass against you.

Outside are the murderers, the licentious, the robbers, the liars, the idolaters, the pleasure seekers, the ungodly. True, Christ didn’t die for them. They don’t want Christ to rule over them. They don’t ask God to forgive them. They don’t want God to forgive them. They don’t even believe God exists. They will feel the full fury of the wrath of God.

However, Jesus did die for the sins of the whole world, for us and for all who believe. That’s a blanket statement; for us in particular, to give us access to God, but also for the sins of the whole world, as John said. If John meant to say for our sins only, he would have said for our sins only. Yes. Jesus died for us in particular. He died for his sheep. But remember the parable of the wicked servant whom the king forgave who would not forgive his fellow servant. The parable states the king, out of pity, forgave the servant who besought him, but then that same servant had his fellow servant charged and thrown into jail. The point is, the wicked servant was forgiven when he asked to be forgiven.

The ones who begged for forgiveness but did not forgive, the ones who did not help the saints, the ones who went back to serving idols etc. after being enlightened, to them Jesus will say, I never knew you. True he never knew them. They were never of God. But I don’t think it’s wrong to say Jesus didn’t die for all who believe in him.

Therefore, I would tend to agree with your initial statement, that Jesus Christ didn't die for all men without exception if you except the ones who do not believe in him, but if you except the ones who believe, because there are many who believe who are not of God, then I would take exception.

 

[savedbygrace57]

God the Son and Spirit in the Counsel -



As we have stated that God the Father is the Primary Divine Being who Purposed victorious Salvation or Redemption, Now we see that God the Son, the Word made Flesh [Jn 1:1,14] is the Primary Being who Victoriously accomplished Salvation or the Atonement via His Cross. For He willingly took on the Role of Mediator [1Tim 2:5;Phil 2:6-8; 2 Cor 8:9]

Now God the Spirit is the Primary Being who applies victorious redemption. He through His renewing work of the New Birth, convicts the elect world of sin, righteousness and Judgment Jn 16:7-11; 2 Thess 2:13. He shall bring each elect vessel of mercy to belief in the Truth as it is in Christ Jesus. He applies or gives Life unto them Jn 6:63; Jn 3:3-8, and He is given as a pledge of their inheritance Eph 1:14;4:30, and so concurs with the Father and the Son in their distinctive roles and the objects of their Eternal Love. It would be remiss if I did not mention His involvement with the Lord's Birth Matt 1:18;Lk 1:35, His death or offering of Himself Heb 9:14; and His resurrection 1 Pet 3:18; along with His Ministry Lk 4:14

So Salvation is made Certain to All for Whom Christ died, by the Work of the Spirit, this is victorious redemption or salvation..

 

[MarkT]

Jesus said, 'For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.' John 3:16 That's a message of love. But you call it a lie. Jesus was not a liar.

The problem with your theology is that it lacks love. It incorporates only things that you want to hear.

The Jews who crucified Jesus thought they were the chosen of God. Similarly, the Catholics think they are the church. And like everyone else, it seems no one can bear the truth.

 

[savedbygrace57]

mark:

Jesus said, 'For God so loved the world

He did, the world of His Church..

 

[MarkT]

mark:


He did, the world of His Church..

Do you really have to say that to make your theology work?

John said, 'and he is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.' 1 John 2:2

John was a follower of Jesus. If Jesus meant the world of his church, not the whole world, when he said, ‘God so loved the world’, then John would not have added, ‘and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world’ in his teaching.

John would have followed Jesus. So we can know what Jesus meant by reading what John wrote. The fact that John added, ‘and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.’ proves Jesus meant the whole world. Unless John was mistaken.

 

[Sam21]

Also,God is no respecter of persons,God actually came to Cain and told him what to do to be accepted, if Cain had followed the instructions of God then that story would be different.

 

[warfrog]

Greetings,

I didnt read all 51 pages, in fact not even close, my apologies if that is offensive to anyone because I didnt yet i am posting.

Lets put this into carnal terms.

Jesus equals a Gift sent from God, that Gift is if you accept that Gift God will give you eternal life.

Man equals people who are born into death, which means we are given life but only to be lead to death, birth-life-death, we are darkness.

God sends Jesus to man because God loves man and doesnt want men to be seperated from God because God is eternal life, but man is led to death, so God gives Jesus as a Gift to man, accept My Gift and you will have eternal life.

You have the choice, accept Gods Gift or dont simple as that, if you do you will accept the Gift and it shall be given, if you dont accept it you dont accept God because you will not take His Gift, you are denying Him because you will die and be seperated from Him and God is eternal life, He is Light, death is darkness, there is no darkness in Light.

So simple, take the Gift or dont, its your choice He doesnt make anyone, we either accept the Gift He gives us or we dont.

I accept the Lord Jesus Christ, He is my Redeemer among men, my Saviour, my hope in Him is eternal life through Him and will be granted to me on the last day as long as i do not deny Him and give back His Gift or lose His Gift.

Others will not accept the Gift, they do not accept God and He will not accept them because they do not accept Him, light cannot be with darkness.


Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[savedbygrace57]

wf:

Jesus equals a Gift sent from God, that Gift is if you accept that Gift God will give you eternal life.

This is false..

 

[MarkT]

Greetings,

I didnt read all 51 pages, in fact not even close, my apologies if that is offensive to anyone because I didnt yet i am posting.

Lets put this into carnal terms.

Jesus equals a Gift sent from God, that Gift is if you accept that Gift God will give you eternal life.

Man equals people who are born into death, which means we are given life but only to be lead to death, birth-life-death, we are darkness.

God sends Jesus to man because God loves man and doesnt want men to be seperated from God because God is eternal life, but man is led to death, so God gives Jesus as a Gift to man, accept My Gift and you will have eternal life.

You have the choice, accept Gods Gift or dont simple as that, if you do you will accept the Gift and it shall be given, if you dont accept it you dont accept God because you will not take His Gift, you are denying Him because you will die and be seperated from Him and God is eternal life, He is Light, death is darkness, there is no darkness in Light.

So simple, take the Gift or dont, its your choice He doesnt make anyone, we either accept the Gift He gives us or we dont.

I accept the Lord Jesus Christ, He is my Redeemer among men, my Saviour, my hope in Him is eternal life through Him and will be granted to me on the last day as long as i do not deny Him and give back His Gift or lose His Gift.

Others will not accept the Gift, they do not accept God and He will not accept them because they do not accept Him, light cannot be with darkness.


Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

What if you discovered God did force you? What would you do then?