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The nation of Israel was given the Law,and it was never given to the the Gentiles

God's laws were given to (the chosen of God) the nation of Israel. The "gentiles" (the rest of us) were never given the law, nor were we "expected" to follow the law...After Christ died for the sins of the world, gentile believers were "grafted" in, and made fellow heirs in Christ, and have the promises and blessings through the covenant between God and Abraham through the lineage of Jacob...Although the gentile believers were not held accountable to the law of Moses, they were given some "rules" to live by, "Acts 15:29" says---That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. Salvation for the gentiles is "based" upon the premise of, Acts 16:31---"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Our faith is necessary (for the gentile) in order to be saved...That's the "ONLY" Prerequisite...
 
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God's laws were given to (the chosen of God) the nation of Israel. The "gentiles" (the rest of us) were never given the law, nor were we "expected" to follow the law...After Christ died for the sins of the world, gentile believers were "grafted" in, and made fellow heirs in Christ, and have the promises and blessings through the covenant between God and Abraham through the lineage of Jacob...Although the gentile believers were not held accountable to the law of Moses, they were given some "rules" to live by, "Acts 15:29" says---That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. Salvation for the gentiles is "based" upon the premise of, Acts 16:31---"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Individual faith is necessary (for the gentile) in order to be saved...That's the "ONLY" Prerequisite...

There are great "shadows" that make all the law worth learning, though, because they point to Christ.

The Mercy Seat, the Atonement sacrifices, the feasts....a wealth of information for those under the Covenant of Grace to apply.

In fact, they are a picture of us, but we have a better Priest. :thumbsup

Deuteronomy 14:2
For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.
Deuteronomy 14:1-3 (in Context) Deuteronomy 14 (Whole Chapter)

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
 
Hi Grubal

I agree that the law of Moses was not given to gentiles. This is what many fail to understand.

You also wrote of Acts 16:31: "Individual faith is necessary ( for the gentile ) in order to be saved---That's the 'ONLY' Prerequisite---" Depending on what you mean by that statement I can AGREE or DISAGREE.

God bless,
 
Hi Grubal

I agree that the law of Moses was not given to gentiles. This is what many fail to understand.

You also wrote of Acts 16:31: "Individual faith is necessary ( for the gentile ) in order to be saved---That's the 'ONLY' Prerequisite---" Depending on what you mean by that statement I can AGREE or DISAGREE.

God bless,

Webb, What that means is, we must come to God (after we hear the word of our salvation from the Bible) and we must, place our "faith" in Christ alone, as our Lord and Savior...) Of course the Holy Spirit actually places us in the "body of Christ" and seals us for all eternity. But, we must first, hear the word, be convicted (by the Spirit) of our sin and then "place our faith" The Spirit does the rest...
 
Hi Grubal

As I understand "faith" or "belief" they are used in the general sense and also the specific. If used in the "general" sense, faith in the entire system of God, I agree.

May I ask, what about repentance?
 
God's laws were given to (the chosen of God) the nation of Israel. The "gentiles" (the rest of us) were never given the law, nor were we "expected" to follow the law...After Christ died for the sins of the world, gentile believers were "grafted" in, and made fellow heirs in Christ, and have the promises and blessings through the covenant between God and Abraham through the lineage of Jacob...Although the gentile believers were not held accountable to the law of Moses, they were given some "rules" to live by, "Acts 15:29" says---That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. Salvation for the gentiles is "based" upon the premise of, Acts 16:31---"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Our faith is necessary (for the gentile) in order to be saved...That's the "ONLY" Prerequisite...

The Law has always been against 'all' lawlessness in whomever it is found.

Murder is no more sanctioned under grace than law, therefore there is no difference.

Paul taught this about 'the law' and 'whom' it is for. In short if you have 'a mouth' and you are located somewhere in 'all the world' the law is for YOU.

Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

The law is the measurement of SIN and ALL are sinners. The law proves the fact that all are in fact lawless as measured under the Laws Perfect requirements.

Christians who decry the law do so acknowledging their SIN, but denying the measuring stick that proved SIN as if it somehow is no longer valid AGAINST sin.

Grace and Law remain steadfastly AGAINST ALL SIN, period.

Grace is not an excuse for SIN nor is LAW.

Now eat yer humble pie and deal with the fact that you have issues. Just because one splatters GRACE across their face that is not a license to SIN.

In fact SIN is and remains AN INSULT to GRACE.


Romans 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

What is SIN?

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

enjoy!

s
 
Hi Grubal

As I understand "faith" or "belief" they are used in the general sense and also the specific. If used in the "general" sense, faith in the entire system of God, I agree.

May I ask, what about repentance?

Repentance to me, carry's the idea of "a change of mind" I'm going this way (according to the flesh) and now, I'm willing to turn from my sins and live in obedience towards God. We "cannot" truly repent until we receive the Holy Spirit into our lives. The Spirit is able to give us the power we don't have, before we receive Christ as Lord and Savior...
 
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The Law has always been against 'all' lawlessness in whomever it is found.

Murder is no more sanctioned under grace than law, therefore there is no difference.

Paul taught this about 'the law' and 'whom' it is for. In short if you have 'a mouth' and you are located somewhere in 'all the world' the law is for YOU.

Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

The law is the measurement of SIN and ALL are sinners. The law proves the fact that all are in fact lawless as measured under the Laws Perfect requirements.

Christians who decry the law do so acknowledging their SIN, but denying the measuring stick that proved SIN as if it somehow is no longer valid AGAINST sin.

Grace and Law remain steadfastly AGAINST ALL SIN, period.

Grace is not an excuse for SIN nor is LAW.

Now eat yer humble pie and deal with the fact that you have issues. Just because one splatters GRACE across their face that is not a license to SIN.

In fact SIN is and remains AN INSULT to GRACE.


Romans 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

What is SIN?

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

enjoy!

s

Romans 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Paul was using this verse to say, we're not to take advantage of the "fact" that we're under Grace, and continue to sin because we are free from the law...
 
The Law has always been against 'all' lawlessness in whomever it is found.

Murder is no more sanctioned under grace than law, therefore there is no difference.

Paul taught this about 'the law' and 'whom' it is for. In short if you have 'a mouth' and you are located somewhere in 'all the world' the law is for YOU.

Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

The law is the measurement of SIN and ALL are sinners. The law proves the fact that all are in fact lawless as measured under the Laws Perfect requirements.

Christians who decry the law do so acknowledging their SIN, but denying the measuring stick that proved SIN as if it somehow is no longer valid AGAINST sin.

Grace and Law remain steadfastly AGAINST ALL SIN, period.

Grace is not an excuse for SIN nor is LAW.

Now eat yer humble pie and deal with the fact that you have issues. Just because one splatters GRACE across their face that is not a license to SIN.

In fact SIN is and remains AN INSULT to GRACE.


Romans 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

What is SIN?

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

enjoy!

s

The law was delivered to the nation of Israel. It was "NEVER" placed upon the gentiles. I would "challenge" you to find Scripture that states, The law was delivered to the gentiles... The law was made for "law breakers." The gentiles (us) are under "Grace" and were never under the law...From Adam on,sin was in the world and we are all (Jew and Gentile) guilty of sin. However, the law was delivered to the "Chosen" house of Israel only, not the gentiles...We "the gentiles" were grafted in later, but we (the gentiles) were and are under Grace not law...
 
Hi Grubal
The best definition of repentance I know of comes from the Christ Himself in Matt.21:28-3l.

May I comment on your post # 8 where in you wrote: "We" 'cannot" truly repent until we receive the Holy Spirit into our lives."

This seems to contadict Peter on Pentecost. When the listeners to Peter's sermon asked "men and brethren what shall we do?" he did not tell them to "believe" for this he had already told them to do in vs. 36 of chapter 2 of Acts. There were two things (in addition to their belief) they needed to do (repent and be baptized) and this he commanded them to do in vs.38. Note, please, the promise of the Holy Spirit to them followed the command to (1) believe, vs.36; (2) repent, vs.387 and (3) be baptized, vs.38. THEN they would receive the Holy Spirit "into their lives."
 
Not all that came out of Egypt were Hebrew.

Exo 12:37 And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.
Exo 12:38 And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.
 
Hi Grubal
The best definition of repentance I know of comes from the Christ Himself in Matt.21:28-3l.

May I comment on your post # 8 where in you wrote: "We" 'cannot" truly repent until we receive the Holy Spirit into our lives."

This seems to contadict Peter on Pentecost. When the listeners to Peter's sermon asked "men and brethren what shall we do?" he did not tell them to "believe" for this he had already told them to do in vs. 36 of chapter 2 of Acts. There were two things (in addition to their belief) they needed to do (repent and be baptized) and this he commanded them to do in vs.38. Note, please, the promise of the Holy Spirit to them followed the command to (1) believe, vs.36; (2) repent, vs.387 and (3) be baptized, vs.38. THEN they would receive the Holy Spirit "into their lives."

Peter was speaking "only" to the, "House of Israel, not to the gentiles. You notice in the "context" "Therefore let all the "house of Israel" know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." The key words of the context are, "HOUSE OF ISRAEL." This is whom Peter was speaking to and of...The people of Israel then asked, "what shall we (house of Israel) do??? The answer was, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized (water) in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Verse 39 of that chapter, states, '"For the promise is to you and your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."

This "promise" was to cover the "future" gentiles that would receive Christ as well... However, the gentiles were to asked only to, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and they would be saved. There was no need for "water baptism," or "works" of repentance as the house of Israel were to do...The gentile only had to believe and have a willingness to repent as presented in this verse, Acts 5:31, "Him has God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Savior, "to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins." According to this verse, It's God who "gives the repentance" to Israel. And it's the Spirit who gives the gentiles the ability to repent, all we need is the "will to repent," God does the rest. Just as we come to God through our "faith" He then gives us "the faith of Christ" to believe...
 
GM, great thread. I hope people can see what your trying to convey. I have run in to the opposition that we already see. So many people jump up down and say that your preaching, and promoting a Licesense to sin. Instead of looking at what the bible is teaching.

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. -2 Timothy 2:15

If people would rightly divide the word of truth it would open their eyes.

What is the word of truth? The gospel of your salvation.

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, -Ephesians 1:13

The bible teaches two different messages to two different groups of believers.

But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; -Galatians 2:7

Baptism was included in Peter's message to the circumcision. Paul was sent "not to baptize" but to preach the gospel of the uncircumcision.

For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. -1 Corinthians 1:17

So many people want to mix everything together and ignore Paul's commission and try to bend and twist all the scriptures together where they weren't ment to fit together.

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; -Ephesians 4:11
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: -Ephesians 4:12
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: -Ephesians 4:13

We have our work cutout for us!

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. -1 Timothy 2:4

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; -2 Timothy 2:25
 
GM, great thread. I hope people can see what your trying to convey. I have run in to the opposition that we already see. So many people jump up down and say that your preaching, and promoting a Licesense to sin. Instead of looking at what the bible is teaching.

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. -2 Timothy 2:15

If people would rightly divide the word of truth it would open their eyes.

What is the word of truth? The gospel of your salvation.

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, -Ephesians 1:13

The bible teaches two different messages to two different groups of believers.

But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; -Galatians 2:7

Baptism was included in Peter's message to the circumcision. Paul was sent "not to baptize" but to preach the gospel of the uncircumcision.

For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. -1 Corinthians 1:17

So many people want to mix everything together and ignore Paul's commission and try to bend and twist all the scriptures together where they weren't ment to fit together.

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; -Ephesians 4:11
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: -Ephesians 4:12
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: -Ephesians 4:13

We have our work cutout for us!

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. -1 Timothy 2:4

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; -2 Timothy 2:25

Thanks brother, welcome to the struggle...
 
Romans 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Paul was using this verse to say, we're not to take advantage of the "fact" that we're under Grace, and continue to sin because we are free from the law...

You will readily admit that the law still proves we are all sinners, even after salvation, right?

s
 
Hi Grubal
In post 8 you wrote: ''WE 'CANNOT' TRULY REPENT UNTIL WE RECEIVE THE HOLLY SPIRIT INTO OUR LIVES'. Can you provide at least ONE scripture in the NT which teaches this?

True, Peter in Acts 2 was speaking to Jews. The context clearly shows this. However, vs. 39 reads: "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." I shall take the position (which I am persuaded is the scriptural postion) that the "AFAR OFF'' includes the gentile as well and if not WHY NOT? The verse further reads: ''EVEN AS MANY AS THE LORD OUR GOD SHALL CALL.'' II Thes. 2:14 verifies we are called by the gospel. Jesus in Mk.16:15,16 declared: "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature." "All the world" surely includes the gentile, if not WHY NOT? Then, Jesus said "he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved---". The point is, the gospel includes the gentile and the gentile is to be baptized as well as the Jew and there is much more to be presented on this matter.

You wrote in post 13: ''---THE GENTILES WERE ASKED ONLY TO, BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND THEY WOULD BE SAVED." Where, may I ask, is this taught in the scripture? I cannot find it. Then you continiued in the same paragraph: ''THERE WAS NO NEED FOR 'WATER BAPTISM,' OR 'WORKS' OF REPENTANCE AS THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL WERE TO DO---THE GENTILE ONLY HAD TO BELIEVE---.'' Where also, is this statement verified by scripture? The household of Cornelius (he being a gentile) was commanded to be baptized in water, Acts 10:48. Furthermore, there was repentance embraced in his household.

I shall be gone most of the day and possibly tomorrow but I encourage and await your reply.
 
The law was delivered to the nation of Israel. It was "NEVER" placed upon the gentiles.

You apparently didn't read the scripture I cited. It is clearly meant to shut up 'every' mouth and make 'all the world' guilty of sin before God, delivery notwithstanding.

I would "challenge" you to find Scripture that states, The law was delivered to the gentiles...
Could provide several. But that would depend on your depth of understanding 'the law.' You understand for example that the law says to love your neighbors as yourself. Jesus cited this law many times. So did Paul and specifically to GENTILES. So, you desire to throw away the entire fulcrum of this LAW because you are not a Jew?

LOL.

Problem with the Law is that most believers buy their understandings from somebody else without putting much of their own time into it other than being a theological parrot for some segmentist.

The law was made for "law breakers." The gentiles (us) are under "Grace" and were never under the law...From Adam on,sin was in the world and we are all (Jew and Gentile) guilty of sin.
You again will admit to being a sinner, which means A LAWLESS LAWBREAKER but don't want the measuring stick that proves it? LOL

Adam was 'under the Law' as well. That Law was DO NOT EAT. What happened to Adam under that law was not one whit different than what happens to us, just as Paul taught us here, and fwiw we do not throw out or throw away that which is holy, righteous and good. You might also notice that 'we' also were 'in the flesh' prior to being led of the Spirit.

Romans 7:
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.


The Law is the exact instrument of our SLAYING in the flesh that we may LIVE unto Christ!


The Law is also Gods Word. We RESPECT Gods Words. We don't THROW THEM AWAY.

In the Prophet(s) who delivered the Law, primarily Moses, it was in fact CHRIST speaking THROUGH THEM!

However, the law was delivered to the "Chosen" house of Israel only, not the gentiles...We "the gentiles" were grafted in later, but we (the gentiles) were and are under Grace not law...
The Law in the form of a good conscience was also put into the hearts of everyone.

Seriously dude, you need to brush up.

Romans 2:
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness,

You see, you don't need to be 'under the delivered Law to the Jews' when you are in compliance with same. If you don't MURDER you are in fact OBEYING the LAW.

Granted, the Law for Jews is much more interesting and complex, but again, ALL of that Law is in fact written in the hearts of mankind everywhere when they DO GOOD AND RIGHT.

And when they don't THEY ARE LAWBREAKERS!

enjoy!

smaller
 
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You will readily admit that the law still proves we are all sinners, even after salvation, right?

s

The "law" was given to the "house of Israel" and never presented to the gentiles...We, the gentiles are under "Grace" not law...The house of Israel were "the chosen" and the law was given to them...
 
Hi Grubal
In post 8 you wrote: ''WE 'CANNOT' TRULY REPENT UNTIL WE RECEIVE THE HOLLY SPIRIT INTO OUR LIVES'. Can you provide at least ONE scripture in the NT which teaches this?

True, Peter in Acts 2 was speaking to Jews. The context clearly shows this. However, vs. 39 reads: "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." I shall take the position (which I am persuaded is the scriptural postion) that the "AFAR OFF'' includes the gentile as well and if not WHY NOT? The verse further reads: ''EVEN AS MANY AS THE LORD OUR GOD SHALL CALL.'' II Thes. 2:14 verifies we are called by the gospel. Jesus in Mk.16:15,16 declared: "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature." "All the world" surely includes the gentile, if not WHY NOT? Then, Jesus said "he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved---". The point is, the gospel includes the gentile and the gentile is to be baptized as well as the Jew and there is much more to be presented on this matter.

You wrote in post 13: ''---THE GENTILES WERE ASKED ONLY TO, BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND THEY WOULD BE SAVED." Where, may I ask, is this taught in the scripture? I cannot find it. Then you continiued in the same paragraph: ''THERE WAS NO NEED FOR 'WATER BAPTISM,' OR 'WORKS' OF REPENTANCE AS THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL WERE TO DO---THE GENTILE ONLY HAD TO BELIEVE---.'' Where also, is this statement verified by scripture? The household of Cornelius (he being a gentile) was commanded to be baptized in water, Acts 10:48. Furthermore, there was repentance embraced in his household.

I shall be gone most of the day and possibly tomorrow but I encourage and await your reply.

Webb---I perceive your, not looking for answers, but looking for "arguments" If I were, to take the time to answer your questions, I'm afraid I'd be "wasting my time and efforts" because you've already made up your mind on these issues and you'll just sit there and "deny" ANYTHING I say. So it really wouldn't be worth my efforts to answer you just for "argumentative" reasons. So I'm going to pass on your questions. Make up your own reasons why, I can take it...
 
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