Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

The new social front line for Christian persecution and the

I never said anything of the like. I was talking about this Dan guy. He is very ignorant. And, well so is your understanding of the Bible.
My view of the Bible isn't ignorant. I bulletpointed the main points mainly because the Bible is a massive tome of several differnt books that all have their own message. The Points I gave is the overall basics of Christianity that all denominations accept ( well, mostly).


I could go into the depths of Genesis, the stories from Cain and Able to Joseph the Dream interpreter. That then brings us to Exodus where God's Chosen People were enslaved by Egypt and how Moses Rose to being one of the Most important Prophets of all Of Judaism and how he was chosen by God to lead the people out out of bondage and through the dessert to then wage conquest when they came to isreal. The Next three books chronicals the rules of God's people under the covenant. Kings, Kings 2 explains the history of the Isreal Empire and the Rise of David. The rest of the Old Testament is the foundation for the prophecies of the savior and explaining more history and the psalms.

The New testament includes teh 4 Gospels that explain the Teaching and story of Jesus Christ from 4 different perspectives. Acts, Romans 1/2, and Corinthians are the books written by Paul explaing his conversion and his letters/preaching/journeys spreading the word of Christianity. Revelations is the collected writings of John and the visions he saw of when Jesus would return.


Yeah, I think I understand your Bible.
 
But in this topic you already show that you don't Heck even that post shows you don't, because you only summarized a history of events. It's a bit more than that.

Like Dan, your view on Biblical slavery is completely out of whack. It wasn't like the slavery we had, which was very wrong indeed. Understand the Biblical idea of slavery and you'll (maybe?) see why I say what I do. And perhaps Dan does understand it as well, and in that case SHAME on him for using such underhanded tactics on a bunchy of high schoolers. Those kids don't know what I mean by Biblical slavery, they think slavery and they see the south circa 1800. God condemned this, even in the Bible. Look at what He did to Egypt. He destroyed it, more or less!

Biblical slavery was like indentured servitude. Slaves left their master after a time. Slaves became slaves through their own freewill because they needed to provide for their family or they had a debt that couldn't be repaid. Slaves were not mistreated, they were well off and had important jobs. Some were doctors! Many people entered into slavery because they wished to live a life without having to worry about supporting themselves. This is a very brief understanding on it, I ask you to go understand it and then you will see the verses in a new light.

And I didn't wish that bit about you being ignorant to be rude, which is why I had removed it. I didn't know these things either when I was a pagan like you. People just kind of treat the Bible with the same amount of scrutiny they treat a normal book, and then once you become a Christian you know to look deeper and you want to. You have read the Bible like maybe once? I've read parts of it more than 1000 times and I've only been a Christian for three years.
 
No, I'm pretty sure I understand your Bible.

According to your Bible, your God Created the world and his created beings defied his wishes and ate the fruit of knowledge of Good and Evil. For this he cursed man kind with the construct called sin. Many generations later he chose Abraham to be his prophet and told him his people would obtain the promised land. This was after God wiped the Earth of Wicked people with the Flood. Many decendants later God gives the laws to Moses for his chosen people. These are contained in the books Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Dueteronomy. These laws told the Jews how to worship, live, eat, have sex, etc, etc.

The law was enforced to keep the line pure in the prophecy that in the line of David would come their savior.

The Jews would then fight multiple campaigns to secure and keep their holy land and eventually Rome would capture Judea. Jesus was born onto the virgin Mary and reaffirmed the laws of the Old testament, yet breaking some on his own, promised salvation, fulfilled the prophecies, and instructed his followers on how to obtain salvation. Then Died on the cross as a sacrifice to God so he could become one with God, so then the new covenant would be confirmed. He rose three days later and proclaimed to his disciples that the new covenant was in effect and told them to preach the Gospel across the land. Promising to return and bring forth righteous judgement within the lifetime of the disciples.

Years later the disciple and their followers are being persecuted by Rome and by the pharisees. Saul/Paul was one of those and when Saul was on the Road to Damascus Jesus appeared before him in a vision and convinced him that he was the real authority. Saul then became Paul and brought the gentiles into the fold with the Jews and helped spread the Gospel to the Roman empire and mixed the Gospels with the Old laws solidifying the Religion known as Christianity.

A few hundred years later the Catholic Church came together and brought together the books of the Bible so the Churches were all on the same pages and disagreed with the Byzantines who would later form Greek Orthodox. Later Revelations would be added to the Bible for reasons Scholars are still fighting over today. But the gist is that when Jesus comes back he will throw the Beast and all its followers into the lake of fire and take his elect with him to the promise land to be with with God.

So What is it that I don't understand? Seems pretty straight forward to me.

First, I'm glad I'm not a masochist. Second, the rest of your post is just you making claims of what other's think and projecting your views over something that is simple. Dan is pointing out things in the Bible we don't follow anymore, like slavery and levitican Law, and explaining how Christianity and US culture has left those things behind and how eventually people will do the same with LGBT. The people probably left because he dared to point out the obvious to anyone who has actually read the Bible and know the basics of US history.

I don't think you do, since I can't get a straight answer from you, and what I have received is just snarky and condescending huff.

I do find humility a chore sometimes. If this is your sum total of the bible in a nut shell, then I'd say as a non-christian, it's quite impressive. What I would add is that the law was an anti-type of Christ to come, and Christ fulfilled the law. This is a sticking point of understanding between elect and non-elect. You did not mention it, which would be fitting for a non-Christian, but if you had any comments about that I'm all ears.

I did not see a question in there, but I did offer to answer anything. Did you want to talk about the law, or slavery? There is another thread someone started about Homosexuality being a choice or not. That might be a good place to work from, or you could start a thread on Christians bullying homosexuals.

I was thinking this thread would be more for Christians, but I did post it in General Talk, so It's probably fair game.
 
But in this topic you already show that you don't Heck even that post shows you don't, because you only summarized a history of events. It's a bit more than that.
I don't think I'll ever meet your burden of proof that I understand your Bible, because its not understanding the Bible that is the problem. I was a Christian for several years and used the exact same argument you are using for why I don't understand the Bible. I understand that no matter how much I show you I understand, you've already decided that I don't understand and nothing will change that perspective. So Lets give that tired nonsense a rest. I understand your Bible.

Like Dan, your view on Biblical slavery is completely out of whack. It wasn't like the slavery we had, which was very wrong indeed. Understand the Biblical idea of slavery and you'll (maybe?) see why I say what I do. And perhaps Dan does understand it as well, and in that case SHAME on him for using such underhanded tactics on a bunchy of high schoolers. Those kids don't know what I mean by Biblical slavery, they think slavery and they see the south circa 1800. God condemned this, even in the Bible. Look at what He did to Egypt. He destroyed it, more or less!
Biblical slavery is that as long as you are a Jew, its basically indentured servitude. That is what you are getting at. The Problem is that you are ignoring the rules on how much you can beat your slaves, how to keep a slave by allowing him to have children and then giving them a choice on leaving their family and being free, or giving up their freedom forever to stay with their family. You also aren't mentioning that non Jewish slaves can be taken from the lands around Israel and are property and can be pass on to the chilldren. These slaves aren't subject to the rules of Jewish slaves. This is what was used by the South in the US to justify the African slaves. I know this trick very well.

Biblical slavery was like indentured servitude. Slaves left their master after a time. Slaves became slaves through their own freewill because they needed to provide for their family or they had a debt that couldn't be repaid. Slaves were not mistreated, they were well off and had important jobs. Some were doctors! Many people entered into slavery because they wished to live a life without having to worry about supporting themselves. This is a very brief understanding on it, I ask you to go understand it and then you will see the verses in a new light.
No, this is only a half truth. The servitude part only applied to the Jewish people. If you were from another tribe, empire, or country, you were property to be passed on. I know of the verses you are talking about. The thing is, right after those verse, are the verses on how to acquire foreign slaves for life.

And I didn't wish that bit about you being ignorant to be rude, which is why I had removed it. I didn't know these things either when I was a pagan like you. People just kind of treat the Bible with the same amount of scrutiny they treat a normal book, and then once you become a Christian you know to look deeper and you want to. You have read the Bible like maybe once? I've read parts of it more than 1000 times and I've only been a Christian for three years.
Hi former christian who thought about becoming a pastor. I've read the Bible multiple times. The thing is, I used to argue these passages exactly like you are now. Even using the "pagan" angle. I am definitely not trying to convert you away from Christianity. I'm jut going to say that there really is no reason to apologize for what the Bible says. The Bible dose tell people how to acquire slaves, the US did use the Bible to justify slavery. Abolitionists decided that it was not in everyone's best interest to have slaves and fought to free the slaves.

That part of the Bible was left behind because we grew as a people. We no longer needed slaves. We recognize it as an injustice. There is no reason to claim the Bible dosen't have these passages or to claim it wasn't slavery. It was, big wup. In the end, we have learned to not treat people as property. That is the point. We stopped. That is what Dan is trying to say. Eventually society will stop justifying behavior we understand is wrong. Do you understand my point?
 
Oh I understand what you are trying at. I used the same logic you do when I wasn't a Christian. Ashamed of it but I did it. Let's put it this way, I understand what you are saying and I'm going to disagree with it.

I'll end on this note: the Bible never condones slavery, it speaks of how to treat slaves. It's like "if you're gonna do it, do it this way"

Oh yeah, and I'd have said that you understood the Bible if you had done more than a history. I'm looking for the meaning, not the structure.
 
Sorry, poorly worded. I did not mean the word condemn, I meant require. It allows for slavery, and I still have to stress that it is a different slavery than we think of when we think of slavery in America.

Really sorry, actually. I was saying one thing and then added in that other bit. Doesn't even make sense, you can't condemn something and then at the same time say "OK here is how you do it"!
 
So What is it that I don't understand? Seems pretty straight forward to me.

First, I'm glad I'm not a masochist. Second, the rest of your post is just you making claims of what other's think and projecting your views over something that is simple. Dan is pointing out things in the Bible we don't follow anymore, like slavery and levitican Law, and explaining how Christianity and US culture has left those things behind and how eventually people will do the same with LGBT. The people probably left because he dared to point out the obvious to anyone who has actually read the Bible and know the basics of US history.


Here is something I can address with you, to address what it is that you are misunderstanding, and I promise to practice respect and humility. Something I'm trying to work on.

Where non-Christians, like Dan Savage, are misinterpreting the law and the bible is in not understanding the different views and distinctions of the law within the Judeo-Christian view, and knowing how "non-Christians", fit in that view.

If you will allow, let's take a look at the law, and Dan Savage's message against the Judeo-Christian view. I'll break it up into two parts.

A) The first distinction of the law is that while all mankind is condemned under the law, non-Jews and non-Christians are not held to the law as Christians and Jews, because they are already condemned. There is no salvation for the willfully un-saved, or non-elect under the law.

As non-Christians they represent themselves. They will say they are a good person. What they don't understand is they represent themselves against the law of God, not on behalf of God's law, which they also use to say they are good, even if they don't believe in God. They are convinced the law is simply man's law, and since this is the case, they strive to effect man's law. And so, they are working to legalize their own sin under man's law which will allow them to not be guilty under man's law, unaware they, like all men, are guilty of all of God's law. This is the first part of what is not understood by non-Christians.

It should be noted that many Saved - Christians hold to the belief that they also represent themselves to some degree under God's law. However, their condition as saved distinguishes them from the non-saved in terms of being condemned under the law. They are saved and represented by Christ.

The irony of Dan's message is that he thinks he's inclusive to the law of Leviticus in talking about shellfish and homosexuality. To further point this out, let's use your quote. "Dan is pointing out things in the Bible we don't follow anymore." We? Who's the we? non-Christians, like Dan, are thinking they are the we, in that Leviticus was speaking to all mankind in the same way, and It's not.

Dan is not Jewish, or Christian. The un-saved are outside the law as such, but the law applies to the un-saved in that they are condemned under it by nature. All mankind is condemned under the same law, but held to it differently. Hold that thought and keep reading please.

B) There is a distinction in the law between civil law, ceremonial law, and moral law.
Jews side, There are some differences within the Christian faith on what is held and what is no longer held in terms of the law, but the differences are not divisive to the faith itself.

Rather than describe each view in detail, I'll list the title distinctive views on the law, and you can research them on your own. I will focus on the reformed view because that's the one I hold to the most. Here they are. Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Reformed, Anglican, Dispensationalism, Theonomy, New Covenant Theology, Dual-covenant theology, Torah Submission, and Jesusism. Each one of these view see the law and the covenant between God and man differently, but there are similarities that bond them together.

You'll notice I did not list the Atheist view of the law, or the non-Christian view. As I addressed in point A) above. There is no "WE" in Christianity, and all of mankind when it comes to the law of God and what's allowed. Although some will say you go to hell for this or that, The gospel points out that all are condemned under the same law, and if you are guilty of even part of it you are guilty of all of it.

The view of the Reformed churches, referred to as Covenant Theology, is similar to the Roman Catholic view in holding that Mosaic Law continues under the New Covenant, while declaring that parts of it have "expired" and are no longer applicable. However, the Westminster Confession of Faith (1646) divides the Mosaic laws into three categories: moral, civil, and ceremonial.

In the view of the Westminster Divines, only the moral laws of the Mosaic Law, which include the Ten Commandments and the commands repeated in the New Testament, directly apply to Christians today. Ceremonial laws, in this view, include the regulations pertaining to ceremonial cleanliness, festivals, diet, and the Levitical priesthood, which do not apply to Christians in the new covenant. Homosexuality falls within the moral law, where as shellfish and slavery fall into ceremonial and civil law respectively.

Because Jesus fulfilled the law, there is no need for the civil and ceremonial laws as they where largely an antitype of Christ. These are sometimes referred to as "types and shadows" of Christ to come. Gods moral laws are observed by mankind through Christ in those who are in Christ, and they are discounted by mankind by those not in Christ. Part of that, is also displayed in man's societal law.

In this view of the law overlap between categories does occur, the divisions they make are possible and supported based on information contained in the commands themselves; specifically to whom they are addressed, whom or what they speak about, and their content.

For example, a ceremonial law might be addressed to the Levites, speak of purification or holiness and have content that could be considered as a foreshadowing of some aspect of Christ's life or ministry. In keeping with this, most advocates also hold that when the law is spoken of as everlasting, it is in reference to certain divisions of the Law, which I have just explained in sort.

We are living in what can be described as a post Christian society. A society that has pushed back on Christianity and it's influence within social/cultural institutions, like education, health care, marriage and family, welfare, government and law. This has been taking place for a long time.

It's already made huge influences in education, welfare, government, and it's moving into marriage and family, with it's eye on healthcare. The goal of the world is to de-Christianize these institutions in every way possible to exclude God as much as possible and replace God as God with man as god.

To further explain this; from a biblical prospective Satan rules the world, and one of the best ways for him to do that is to influence and effect that which mankind is most concerned with; his own self preservation, and ignorance of his own condemnation in his inevitable death. What Satan knows is that the unregenerate will not concern themselves with this fact and would rather just live pleasurably while they are alive then to contemplate their own destiny. As he said to Eve in the garden, Gen3:4 "You will not certainly die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." ................Dan Savage saying the same thing, but only under different circumstances. If you had to place a face on Satan and his message in todays world just look at that video.

When it comes to the law and the gospel the un-saved, (those who reject God) have an advantage to speaking on what they don't fully understand. They can make a few remarks and sound knowledgeable among each other without realizing the ignorance of their own biblically illiterate statements. Dan Savage points this condition out clearly in his own remarks where he says; "We can learn to ignore what the bible says." The word ignorance is a derivative of the word "ignore", but again, who is he talking to when he says "we"? It's not the Christians; It's the lost in an effort to rally them against God.
 
Danus

Perhaps you consider this as irrelevant to your thread. But I wonder why no one points out that Dan Savage is a part of a reaction against Christian fundamentalism. He is a New Atheist that happens to also be gay. He has two agendas. One is his agenda as a homosexual. He also has the agenda of the New Atheists, which is to destroy the Bible and Christianity by any means possible. Richard Dawkins calls religious people who deny his beloved Evolutionism, especially Christians, mentally sick. And his chief concern is to denounce the bible, being as he’s part of Western culture, to clear the way for belief in the philosophy that glorifies the ability of man to understand and to have its own destiny, called Evolutionism. And in this video, its clear that Dan Savage believes the same thing. If you have read any other portions of his verbal and written work, it shows up there very clearly. He claims to be against bullying. It’s a cover for his real agenda. The fact that he said what he did in an environment of young people where he was just suppose to address bullying shows his actual agenda.

Thank God not all non-believers fall into the category of Dan Savage. Or that not all Christians fall into the category of Christian fundamentalists. They are both bullies at heart. Trying to force themselves and what they think on others. That’s what bullying is all about. And Dan Savage doesn’t really have a clue. He would have never said what he did if he had a clue. He’s become anti-Bible and anti those who believe in the bible. And he probably will never realize what he’s become. In reaction to the bullying he has received, he’s become a bully himself. Even to young people who are still impressionable. He has even buffed himself up to appear more intimidating to those he’s against and more able to intimidate to those who follow him.

Many walked out, more cheered him on. The ones who walked out didn’t believe in Dan Savage’s own BS. That’s good. I wonder where the rest of that video is, or if there is a rest of that video? I hope those that left didn’t return after he called them pansy-assed for showing their disagreement by walking out. Pansy-ass is a clear term of intimidation used by bullies. It was when I was coming up, and obviously it still is.

But what about the crowd who cheered him on? There’s always a multitude who will cheer on that which is politically correct. It happened in Jesus’ time, it happens in our time. Some in that crowd will see the light. Some won’t. Not being a Calvinist, I think that depends a lot on how believers work together with God and with each other on their behalf.

This thread is informative to Christians. Showing what the world, even for the kids, is really like, in case there are some who haven’t noticed it before. Which I understand. And there will always be a Meatballsub who will stand up for a Dan Savage. And I’m glad he does. Because it gives you a chance to give substance to your original intent.

I may be a Former Christian. But unlike Meatballsub, I’m not a former believer. So I side with the kids who were able to discern the BS of Dan Savage.

FC
 
Your welcome reba. It is interesting.


FC, I just became aware of Dan Savage this past Friday when a friend pointed this video out. I read up a little on him, and I came to a similar conclusion you mentioned, but I'm still learning more about him.

Most within my Christian circles know that I have pretty much turned my back on the culture war. As a Calvinist (I prefer Reformist) I tend to take a Que sera sera attitude about how the the world shakes out, or our efforts in it. Still, I do like watching it unfold and talking about it.

When I watched this video for the first time, at first I was somewhat outraged, but as he spoke and the kids started leaving I began to laugh. My friend said; "Why is this funny to you? This guy is subverting Christianity to high school kids!"

My reply was; "Well, he's subverting Christianity to lost kids true, but the saved ones are walking out. There you see the real power in his message, and he's clueless about it, all the while thinking he's winning."

I do understand what you mean in regards to Christian fundamentalist and the variety of non-Christians, but as a Reformist I tend to take a more broad stance in categorizing people as saved, not saved; Which also include those who might be saved or might not.

In this broader view, people either are saved, will be saved or won't be, but the determining factors to this are beyond my will, or even theirs. When it comes to the cultural war this can be seen as lazy and irresponsible position for a Christian to take. As a friend of mine says, It's like watching a train wreck and not helping the injured unless they ask to be, or crawl to you. Fair enough, but I'd say it's more like watching a train wreck, helping the injured and ignoring the dead since there is nothing you can do for them.

The kids cheering him on are just following the pied piper so to speak. Some are already dead and there is nothing anyone can do for them. Some will be saved, but the kids walking out represent the ones who already are, and my question to my friend was, does the video showing these events talking place; the speech; this guy Dan Savage; or the kids....does the fact that we see and hear this, change the condition of the hearts and minds of those people, or us as it unfolds; or does it delineate the hearts and minds of people? I think from a high sense it does the later.

No one said in their minds sitting in that speech; "yeah for the homosexual anti -Christian message!" who did not already have that going on. So, the cheers are just in solidarity to the message, because that's the message of the lost.

Here is another interesting speculation about the culture over time. This is fun to think about. Imagine if Dan Savage made this same speech word for word, but in different years. For example, 1950. If he did this in 1950, they'd have rushed him off the stage and he'd have been arrested. before that he might be beaten and then arrested. In 1960, 1970, 1980, 1990 and so on. Point being he could only say what he said and walk out of that room in this age. All speculative mid you. But, would even that make any difference to the condition of mankind in those times? I think not.

Rather, it's allowed now, not because people are smarter, or more enlightened, but because it is part in partial to the end of the age. heck if he'd said what he said publicly in the 1500 or 1600, they'd have burned him at the stake. But, he could have said it all publicly with no problem in say 100 AD.

I am not much on the end times in that I do not spend much time contemplating it. I'm not on dispensationalism, but it is interesting to see the ages unfold in different ways culturally. When I see and hear of men like Dan savage it brings to mind verses in 2 Timothy.

2 Timothy 3
3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness, but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

Paul continues with - ................6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.....Paul concludes with this........They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone....

everyone being the elect, or saved in Christ.
 
In a recent visit to Israel and the West Bank I was interested in the apparent contradiction concerning the ghettoization of the Palestinians by Israel.

A visit to Yod Vashim will expose the visitor to the extremes of the Warsaw ghettoes as experience by Jews during the Nazi regime. Yet it seems Israel is perpetrating exactly the same principles today.

A case of the oppressed becoming the oppressor.
 
In a recent visit to Israel and the West Bank I was interested in the apparent contradiction concerning the ghettoization of the Palestinians by Israel.

A visit to Yod Vashim will expose the visitor to the extremes of the Warsaw ghettoes as experience by Jews during the Nazi regime. Yet it seems Israel is perpetrating exactly the same principles today.

A case of the oppressed becoming the oppressor.
so what you do suggest that isreal cease to be or that they occupy the palenstian areas? you do realise the west bank is under palenstian authority not isreals. arabs live in isreal and also serve in the knesset. not that isreal doesnt have issues as all in a war commit attrocities.
 
so what you do suggest that isreal cease to be or that they occupy the palenstian areas? you do realise the west bank is under palenstian authority not isreals. arabs live in isreal and also serve in the knesset. not that isreal doesnt have issues as all in a war commit attrocities.

The West Bank is divided into sections, ABC. In C, Palestinians have some control over their affairs but the IDF can come in at any time - which they do with monotonous frequency.

While I was in Zone C I could not help but notice the continual low flying IDF aircraft. No other nation state would accept such action.

There are Arabs living in Israel but they are surely being forced out.
 
In a recent visit to Israel and the West Bank I was interested in the apparent contradiction concerning the ghettoization of the Palestinians by Israel.

A visit to Yod Vashim will expose the visitor to the extremes of the Warsaw ghettoes as experience by Jews during the Nazi regime. Yet it seems Israel is perpetrating exactly the same principles today.

A case of the oppressed becoming the oppressor.

I've been to Yad Vashem. I didn't see any connection between that experience and "ghettoization of the Palestinians by Israel." The Palestinians have their own government and territory of their own, and could have a state of their own if they were willing to live in peace with Israel. If you spend a little time learning history, you'd know the ghettoization of the Palestinians is self imposed

Israel and Palestinians have NOTHING in common with Germany and Jews.
 
The West Bank is divided into sections, ABC. In C, Palestinians have some control over their affairs but the IDF can come in at any time - which they do with monotonous frequency.

While I was in Zone C I could not help but notice the continual low flying IDF aircraft. No other nation state would accept such action.

There are Arabs living in Israel but they are surely being forced out.

Completely false.
 
If you spend a little time learning history, you'd know the ghettoization of the Palestinians is self imposed

Actually I was on a study tour and visited and spoke to numerous people, Jews, Muslims, Druze, Palestinians, Samaritans - and all the time had to negotiate the security check points at various places along the wall.

A Rabbi confirmed that the policy of Israel is to take over the West Bank completely.

Don't believe everything you read in the US newspapers.
 
when i want to debunk things of this nature i go to source,isreali newspapers and her goverment. the american media isnt really pro-isreal.being a jew i know this.

was said rabbi part of isreali goverment?.isreal or parts of her may want the west bank but until i hear otherwise i have doubts on your statements. i have been to a muslim nation it was a tour alright and well i will say this. if some know i was a jew i would have been killed. im sure amongst all them afghanis there were some that hated jews.if the nation of isreal wanted arabs out why then are the arabs in the idf who volunteer? whom also serve and are elected to the knesset?
 
Actually I was on a study tour and visited and spoke to numerous people, Jews, Muslims, Druze, Palestinians, Samaritans - and all the time had to negotiate the security check points at various places along the wall.

A Rabbi confirmed that the policy of Israel is to take over the West Bank completely.

Don't believe everything you read in the US newspapers.

I don't have to read the newspapers, I visit Israel frequently. I'm sorry you're study tour showed you such a biased view of Israel. The growth of the Arab population population is still higher than that of Jews, though the difference is narrowing.

Israel had complete control of the West Bank for decades, and withdrew completely, beginning in 2006. Thousands of settlers where removed and villages destroyed by the Israel givernment. Why do thin k that NOW the policy is to "take over" the West Bank?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Actually, this Israel/Palestinian issue seems a little off topic for this thread, don't you think? Perhaps someone needs to start a new thread, if he wants to see it discussed.
 
Back
Top