The Omnipresence of the Devil

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No believer can say they have no sin and be in truth. 1 John 1:8

And sin is in fact of the devil. 1 John 3:8

And, all have sin (present tense) and have sinned (past tense.)

So do the math. All it takes to be "honest" is to realize that the "tempter" operates between our own two ears. Where then does that place the "tempter?" No sense living in denial.

 

[OzSpen]

It might appear so, at least on earth:

1 John 5:19
And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

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The Scriptures affirm that this is not the case.

What is omnipresence? J I Packer (aged 89 and still alive), one of evangelicals foremost teachers, explained:

The word means that God knows exhaustively, and upholds and touches continually, every single item in the universe he has made, from the tiniest genes and electrons to the most massive stars in the expanding universe to the most complex mind-body interactions in the psyche of over 6 billion people. God is here, there, and everywhere, and his mind and hand are on everything. We are never out of his sight (Psalm 139), and we cannot get away from him (John 1). Wherever we are, he is there too. This is not simply a matter of transcending spatial confines. Strictly speaking, God has no spatial location at all, for space belongs to the created order and exists in him rather than he in it. Such is the omnipresence of God (Packer 2000).

James wrote, 'Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you' (James 4:7 ESV). Jesus practised this same teaching: 'And when the devil had ended every temptation, he departed from him until an opportune time' (Luke 4:13 ESV).

Therefore, both James and Jesus shatter the teaching that Satan is omnipresent. Satan is not with us all the time so he cannot be omnipresent.

I highly recommend this brief article by J I Packer, 'Is Satan omnipresent?'

Oz

Works consulted
Packer, J I 2000. Is Satan omnipresent? Christianity Today (online), 19 September. Available at: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/september4/36.115.html (Accessed 28 July 2015).

 

[OzSpen]

NO, the scripture is not telling us God is all places at once. David is Telling us God is always with him. Not only but Angels also are everywhere and report instantly to the Lord and David was anointed with the Holy Spirit, always having the presence and direct connection to the Lord.

Now if I say something is not in scripture, there is normally a good reason why I say these things.

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
(Eph 2:12)

If God is omnipresent all places at once, then these folks have God, they don't though.

Mike

Mike,

That is not my understanding of the omnipresence of God. As I've indicated above, J I Packer has provided an excellent explanation of omnipresence:

'The word means that God knows exhaustively, and upholds and touches continually, every single item in the universe he has made, from the tiniest genes and electrons to the most massive stars in the expanding universe to the most complex mind-body interactions in the psyche of over 6 billion people. God is here, there, and everywhere, and his mind and hand are on everything. We are never out of his sight (Psalm 139), and we cannot get away from him (John 1). Wherever we are, he is there too. This is not simply a matter of transcending spatial confines. Strictly speaking, God has no spatial location at all, for space belongs to the created order and exists in him rather than he in it. Such is the omnipresence of God' (Packer 2000).​

Or, we could define God's omnipresence as God not having 'size or spatial dimensions, and is present at every point of space with his whole being, yet God acts differently in different places' (Grudem 1999:78).

We know that God is present everywhere because of teachings such as Jeremiah 23:23-24 (ESV), 'Am I a God at hand, declares the Lord, and not a God far away? 24 Can a man hide himself in secret places so that I cannot see him? declares the Lord. Do I not fill heaven and earth? declares the Lord'.

As for Eph 2:12 (ESV), 'remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world', it is not teaching about God's omnipresence but about a people's relationship with God. Paul is telling Gentile believers in Ephesus that formerly they were 'alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise' and in such a situation they were without hope (Eph 2:12 ESV), but what are they now? Eph 2:13 (ESV) provides the answer: 'But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ'. Paul is teaching about the condition of people BEFORE they came to Christ and then providing the answer of redemption in Christ NOW that they are Christians.

Ephesians 2:12-13 (ESV) is not teaching about God's omnipresence but redemption in Christ.

Oz

Works consulted
Grudem W 1999. Bible doctrine. Leicester, England: Inter-Varsity Press.

Packer, J I 2000. Is Satan omnipresent? Christianity Today (online), 19 September. Available at: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/september4/36.115.html (Accessed 28 July 2015).

 

[OzSpen]

I have no idea Classik, he's an omniliar I can tell you that.

electrical,

Why don't you check out the Scriptures with us? Try this article as a starter: J I Packer, 'Is Satan omnipresent?'

 

[smaller]

smaller,

The Scriptures affirm that this is not the case.

What is omnipresence? J I Packer (aged 89 and still alive), one of evangelicals foremost teachers, explained:

I certainly wouldn't equate the Omnipresence of God to anything remotely similar to Satan.

That being said, the previous observations stand as noted.

Galatians 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil;

 

[OzSpen]

I certainly wouldn't equate the Omnipresence of God to anything remotely similar to Satan.

That being said, the previous observations stand as noted.

Galatians 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil;

So, are you still affirming the omnipresence of Satan? If so, would you please define that understanding of omnipresence for me to understand?

 

[Brother Mike]

Mike,

That is not my understanding of the omnipresence of God. As I've indicated above, J I Packer has provided an excellent explanation of omnipresence:

'The word means that God knows exhaustively, and upholds and touches continually, every single item in the universe he has made, from the tiniest genes and electrons to the most massive stars in the expanding universe to the most complex mind-body interactions in the psyche of over 6 billion people. God is here, there, and everywhere, and his mind and hand are on everything. We are never out of his sight (Psalm 139), and we cannot get away from him (John 1). Wherever we are, he is there too. This is not simply a matter of transcending spatial confines. Strictly speaking, God has no spatial location at all, for space belongs to the created order and exists in him rather than he in it. Such is the omnipresence of God' (Packer 2000).​

Well, I am a big Star Trek Fan, a hint by my avatar. Packer must be a Star Trek fan also, seeing how he concluded God has no spatial location, despite Jesus saying "My Father in Heaven" and "My Throne, and my Father's throne"

Thing is, I don't mix Science fiction with Scripture, I know the difference. When God says he comes down to see Babel, comes to see what Adam is up to, Comes to look at Sodom and find out if the cry of the sin, is matching the actions of man. That would be a good indication of God describing the fact He is not everywhere, and Mixing science fiction with Scripture makes one come off as a loon.

If one thing in scripture is true, and it is, then all others must match up, not taking one, but taking all.

Now give me a break.

Mike.

 

[smaller]

So, are you still affirming the omnipresence of Satan? If so, would you please define that understanding of omnipresence for me to understand?

Do I need to repeat? Please see my post # 25

"I certainly wouldn't equate the Omnipresence of God to anything remotely similar to Satan."

 

[Christ_empowered]

I don't think satan is omipresent. 1 Peter 5:8 seems to indicate that el diablo goes to and fro, rather than being omnipresent.

 

[OzSpen]

Well, I am a big Star Trek Fan, a hint by my avatar. Packer must be a Star Trek fan also, seeing how he concluded God has no spatial location, despite Jesus saying "My Father in Heaven" and "My Throne, and my Father's throne"

Thing is, I don't mix Science fiction with Scripture, I know the difference. When God says he comes down to see Babel, comes to see what Adam is up to, Comes to look at Sodom and find out if the cry of the sin, is matching the actions of man. That would be a good indication of God describing the fact He is not everywhere, and Mixing science fiction with Scripture makes one come off as a loon.

If one thing in scripture is true, and it is, then all others must match up, not taking one, but taking all.

Now give me a break.

Mike.

That's not dealing with the issues I raised with you. Chucking off at J I Packer doesn't address the omnipresence of the Lord God - the only person who is omnipresent. I've provided the Scriptures to demonstrate that and Eph 2:12-13 (ESV) to refute your view of Eph 2:12 (ESV).

You state, 'Jesus saying "My Father in Heaven" and "My Throne, and my Father's throne"' refutes the idea of God having no spatial location. Please tell me where in space is heaven. Where are Jesus' and the Father's thrones in space?

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Do I need to repeat? Please see my post # 25,

"I certainly wouldn't equate the Omnipresence of God to anything remotely similar to Satan."

I've already replied to #25. If you don't equate the omnipresence of God with the 'omnipresence' of Satan, then why did you say at #19:

It might appear so, at least on earth [that Satan is omnipresent]:

1 John 5:19
And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

There is only one person who is omnipresent and He is the Lord God Almighty and He alone. I've been trying to demonstrate that from Scripture. Do you agree or not that only God Himself is omnipresent?

Oz

 

[childeye]

The kingdom of darkness is built upon falsehood. Lies usurp from the Truth and have no substance of their own. There is one Truth that can live in all men, but thousands of lies that can live in one man.

 

[smaller]

I've already replied to #25. If you don't equate the omnipresence of God with the 'omnipresence' of Satan, then why did you say at #19:

There is only one person who is omnipresent and He is the Lord God Almighty and He alone. I've been trying to demonstrate that from Scripture. Do you agree or not that only God Himself is omnipresent?

Oz

The Omnipresence of God is significantly (read: beyond our descriptions or understanding)

Being the god of wickedness on the earth is considerably LESS than that. Does that make it easier?

Nevertheless what Satan does IS done within Gods Omnipresence.

 

[Brother Mike]

That's not dealing with the issues I raised with you. Chucking off at J I Packer doesn't address the omnipresence of the Lord God - the only person who is omnipresent. I've provided the Scriptures to demonstrate that and Eph 2:12-13 (ESV) to refute your view of Eph 2:12 (ESV).

You state, 'Jesus saying "My Father in Heaven" and "My Throne, and my Father's throne"' refutes the idea of God having no spatial location. Please tell me where in space is heaven. Where are Jesus' and the Father's thrones in space?

Oz

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
(Eph 2:12-13)

There is nothing in that scripture that says God is Omnipresent, in fact, omnipresent is not in scripture. In fact, you have no scriptures saying that, your making it up.

I will give a few scriptures for you though. Answer the questions...............

And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
(Gen 11:5)

If the Lord is Omnipresent why he have to go down to see?

And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
(Gen 18:20-21)

If the Lord is omnipresent, why he tell us he is going down to look, and then He will Know if the cry matches the sin?

I have lots more, but my hope is you take a hint and get in asking questions mode, and not refuting mode.

 

[OzSpen]

The kingdom of darkness is built upon falsehood. Lies usurp from the Truth and have no substance of their own. There is one Truth that can live in all men, but thousands of lies that can live in one man.

To whom are you replying? I do wish you would back-quote so that we know the material to which you refer.

 

[OzSpen]

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
(Eph 2:12-13)

There is nothing in that scripture that says God is Omnipresent, in fact, omnipresent is not in scripture. In fact, you have no scriptures saying that, your making it up.

I will give a few scriptures for you though. Answer the questions...............

And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
(Gen 11:5)

If the Lord is Omnipresent why he have to go down to see?

And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
(Gen 18:20-21)

If the Lord is omnipresent, why he tell us he is going down to look, and then He will Know if the cry matches the sin?

I have lots more, but my hope is you take a hint and get in asking questions mode, and not refuting mode.

Mike,

Please go back to #20 where you stated,

NO, the scripture is not telling us God is all places at once. David is Telling us God is always with him. Not only but Angels also are everywhere and report instantly to the Lord and David was anointed with the Holy Spirit, always having the presence and direct connection to the Lord.

Now if I say something is not in scripture, there is normally a good reason why I say these things.

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
(Eph 2:12)

If God is omnipresent all places at once, then these folks have God, they don't though.

It was you who cited Eph 2:12 in support of the lack of omnipresence. I demonstrated to you that Eph 2;12-13 (ESV) was dealing with God's relationship with a people and not not his omnipresence.

I'm not repeating the verses I've already used to demonstrate God's omnipresence. The word, 'omnipresence', may not be in Scripture, but the teaching of God's omnipresence most certainly is.

May you have a good day.

 

[childeye]

To whom are you replying? I do wish you would back-quote so that we know the material to which you refer.

Sorry Oz, I'm addressing the op of the thread.

 

[Brother Mike]

Mike,

Please go back to #20 where you stated,


It was you who cited Eph 2:12 in support of the lack of omnipresence. I demonstrated to you that Eph 2;12-13 (ESV) was dealing with God's relationship with a people and not not his omnipresence.

I'm not repeating the verses I've already used to demonstrate God's omnipresence. The word, 'omnipresence', may not be in Scripture, but the teaching of God's omnipresence most certainly is.

May you have a good day.

Eph 2:12 states There are people without God, as in God is not around.

However, you can't answer the questions, and you believe Scripture is not in line with all scriptures. You don't demonstrate one, and ignore 2, and I had more.

What a shame you think Scriptures contradict.

Mike

 

[OzSpen]

Eph 2:12 states There are people without God, as in God is not around.

However, you can't answer the questions, and you believe Scripture is not in line with all scriptures. You don't demonstrate one, and ignore 2, and I had more.

What a shame you think Scriptures contradict.

Mike

That's a red herring fallacy.

 

[Brother Mike]

That's a red herring fallacy.

Then answer the questions. If God is Omnipresent, then why He have to go DOWN and check Sodom out?
Why God have to go down and Look at Babel?

I have scriptures, and just getting started, you seem to have faltered with nothing. Now we can talk about this and get your doctrine fixed, or drop it. I put the Word first place, and there can be no contradictions. Your standards may not be that High, but mine are, and if your going to speak with me about scriptures, you need to raise the bar, or go quote other people but me. You need to pick who your just go and quote.