The Omniscience Of God Does God Know Everything ?

Lewis · Mar 25, 2011

Years ago I heard a pastor on the radio use the below passage to say that God does not know everything. In verse 12 God says that for now I know, this seems to say that God did not know until Abraham was getting ready to kill his son and God saw him moving to do it. I heard this around 96 or 97 and I have never talked about it before until now, so what do you all think ?

Genesis 22:11-12 (King James Version)

11And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. 12And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

Lewis · Mar 26, 2011

Nobody has anything to say ? Can God be everywhere at once, and does god know everything ? Can God know what is going on in your mind ?

handy · Mar 26, 2011

The text is a poor text to try to say that God doesn't know everything. God knew what Abraham would do, after all He caused the ram to be there...I think the phrase "now I know" doesn't refer to God's ignorance as much as Abraham's free will in this matter...God knew what Abraham would do...but Abraham was free not to do it...

Once Abraham did it...then God said, "Now I know..." not that He didn't have foreknowledge, just that it hadn't happened yet. God waited for the right time to make His declaration...

As for does God know what is going on in our minds...the Scriptures certainly teach that this is so:

1 Samuel 7:16 But the Lord said to Samuel, â€œDo not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him. For the Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.â€

Psalm 139:1 "O Lord, You have searched me and known me. 2 You know my sitting down and my rising up;
You understand my thought afar off.
3 You comprehend my path and my lying down,
And are acquainted with all my ways.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Lewis · Mar 26, 2011

I know Dora, but that is the text that the guy used, I never forgot that.

childeye · Mar 26, 2011

Since this was a type for the Christ, in 20\20 hindsight, God had to know. Had Isaac been killed the entire prophecy of the New Testament could not be fulfilled. I do noy attribute this to Abrahams "freewill" but to faith.

childeye · Mar 26, 2011

Lewis W said:
Nobody has anything to say ? Can God be everywhere at once, and does god know everything ? Can God know what is going on in your mind ?

The mind is different than the heart for sure. The mind is reasoning but the heart is feelings, Love. God knows everything. Say something and ones words reveal how they feel and what they think, but God created man and knows what was inside him from the begining, what was corrupted and how to fix it.

Elijah674 · Mar 26, 2011

handy said:
The text is a poor text to try to say that God doesn't know everything. God knew what Abraham would do, after all He caused the ram to be there...I think the phrase "now I know" doesn't refer to God's ignorance as much as Abraham's free will in this matter...God knew what Abraham would do...but Abraham was free not to do it...

handy said:
Once Abraham did it...then God said, "Now I know..." not that He didn't have foreknowledge, just that it hadn't happened yet. God waited for the right time to make His declaration...

As for does God know what is going on in our minds...the Scriptures certainly teach that this is so:

1 Samuel 7:16 But the Lord said to Samuel, â€œDo not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him. For the Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.â€

Psalm 139:1 "O Lord, You have searched me and known me. 2 You know my sitting down and my rising up;
You understand my thought afar off.
3 You comprehend my path and my lying down,
And are acquainted with all my ways.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Very good post material, thanks! :thumbsup

I find it very hard to to even imagine otherwise!

--Elijah

Lewis · Mar 26, 2011

This is what I always use to combat such thinking.

Ezekiel 11:5
And the Spirit of the LORD fell upon me, and said unto me, Speak; Thus saith the LORD; Thus have ye said, O house of Israel: for I know the things that come into your mind, every one of them.

Deavonreye · Mar 27, 2011

You know me,. . . . . . playing devil's advocate......

The problem is in the words, "now I know..."! If this god had been omniscient, his words would have been, "See, I knew he would have killed his son for me all along." And if this is the case, the test would be irrelevant . . . and pretty cruel to put a man through [asking him to "sacrifice his son"]. This story has a LOT more in it that could be touched on, but I will only talk to the OP question.

There is another place in the OT where it is clear that this god wasn't omniscient. I'll let you discover it. ;)

Lewis · Mar 27, 2011

Deavonreye said:
You know me,. . . . . . playing devil's advocate......

The problem is in the words, "now I know..."! If this god had been omniscient, his words would have been, "See, I knew he would have killed his son for me all along." And if this is the case, the test would be irrelevant . . . and pretty cruel to put a man through [asking him to "sacrifice his son"]. This story has a LOT more in it that could be touched on, but I will only talk to the OP question.

There is another place in the OT where it is clear that this god wasn't omniscient. I'll let you discover it. ;)

Come out with it, what are you hiding it for ?

jasoncran · Mar 27, 2011

Lewis W said:
Come out with it, what are you hiding it for ?

job 1

Lewis · Mar 27, 2011

Job 1 (King James Version)

Job 1

1There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
2And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
3His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.
4And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
5And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
7And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
8And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
9Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
12And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
13And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
14And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them:
15And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
16While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
17While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
18While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
19And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
20Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,
21And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
22In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

Deavonreye · Mar 27, 2011

Lewis W said:
Come out with it, what are you hiding it for ?

I just think it is more meaningful when a person discovers such things on their own.

And, no, . . . not the story of Job, . . . though the story of Job could be an example equal to Abraham and Isaac.

Lewis · Mar 27, 2011

http://www.christianforums.net/members/deavonreye/Deavonreye wrote
I just think it is more meaningful when a person discovers such things on their own.

And, no, . . . not the story of Job, . . . though the story of Job could be an example equal to Abraham and Isaac.

That statement you said does not make any sense whatsoever. Why would you make people look for something and you all ready have the answer, this is not a school test. Makes me wonder if you know at all. That reply you gave is no good to this board at all, people come here to share and learn among other things, and what you said is no help at all.

Deavonreye · Mar 27, 2011

Lewis W said:
Deavonreye wrote
I just think it is more meaningful when a person discovers such things on their own.
And, no, . . . not the story of Job, . . . though the story of Job could be an example equal to Abraham and Isaac.

That statement you said does not make any sense whatsoever. Why would you make people look for something and you all ready have the answer, this is not a school test. Makes me wonder if you know at all. That reply you gave is no good to this board at all, people come here to share and learn among other things, and what you said is no help at all.

Fine. Sodom and Gomorrah.

jasoncran · Mar 27, 2011

sodom and gommorah. that was a test to abraham. God does that with people. he knew who was righteous and was letting abraham wait to see the mercy of god.

i once watched men drown, and i asked God to spare them, and all them live. how do i knew he did it. He told me clearly because YOU asked i will spare them.

we are to stand in the gap for the lost. its called intercession. moses begged god to kill him rather then slay isreal.

Deavonreye · Mar 28, 2011

Yeah, . . . not the part.

There is also a hinting of non-omniscience in the 10 commandments story, but it isn't quite so obvious.

Isrealite144000 · Mar 28, 2011

Abraham was Gods friend, I looked into this very subject many years ago and came to the conclusion that God was trying to find out what it felt like as a human to sacrifice a firstborn Son. God felt the anguish and pain that Abraham went through and then stopped it. However God himself went through the same anguish at allowing the world to crucify his firstborn Son Jesus Christ on the cross.

Lewis · Mar 28, 2011

Deavonreye said:
Yeah, . . . not the part.

There is also a hinting of non-omniscience in the 10 commandments story, but it isn't quite so obvious.

Well I can see that you don't know what you are talking about, at all. And how can you when the Holy Ghost is not dwelling within you.

Mike · Mar 28, 2011

With all due respect to Deavonreye (and I mean that), I'm going into this thread with the goal of speaking with Christians; not defending it. I'm not surprised that a non-believer rejects God's Omniscience. I have been very surprised to see some very steep Christians do so.

He knows the hearts of all men. Proverbs 15:3 "The eyes of the LORD are everywhere, keeping watch on the wicked and the good.", Job 21:27 "I know full well what you are thinking, the schemes by which you would wrong me." and Deuteronomy 29:29 "The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law."

He also knows the past and the future. Isaiah 42:42 "See, the former things have taken place, and new things I declare; before they spring into being I announce them to you." Earlier in the previous chapter, Isaiah 40:4 "Who has done this and carried it through, calling forth the generations from the beginning? I, the LORDâ€”with the first of them and with the lastâ€”I am he."

I'm very surprised that fellow believers would put limitations on His Knowledge.

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