The order of events in one's salvation.("ordo salutis")

[Habak]

...the natural man can respond to the fact that Christ died for His sins and that he must repent and be converted and receive Christ as Lord and Savior.

1Co 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.
1Co 1:22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom,
1Co 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles,
1Co 1:24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.

...
Regeneration cannot possibly precede faith....
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:4-7).

Exactly!

Tit 3:3 For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another.
Tit 3:4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Tit 3:6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
Tit 3:7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[eddif]

Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Salvation took place in the beginning.
Or
From the very beginning salvation was accomplished.

The beginning and end is in Christ Jesus.

eddif

 

[for_his_glory]

I think regeneration precedes faith fits the Calvinist theme of being "dead in our trespasses" (can be used to line up w/ total depravity) and then regenerated by The Holy Spirit and made able and willing to respond to God's call to faith. Or...that's my take on it.

Are you going to believe what a man says by their own theories that are taught through traditions that lead to a false gospel or as you said Calvinist theme as theories are only speculations without proof. The word of God is our proof as we are certain of His truth through that of what God has already spoken. 2Timothy 3:16. We have to rightly divide truth and error by going to the word of God for our self to see what He has already said.

 

[WIP]

This may seem like a dumb question but I need clarification. When using the word Regeneration how is that being applied? When I look up the meaning of the word in a dictionary it sounds more like what Paul speaks of when he talks about "putting on the new man" or "being made new in Christ." Wouldn't this then happen after coming to know Him?

 

[Habak]

I gave scripture for this in post #4 .

I suppose that to sincerely respond I would have to believe that there are 5 prerequisites to salvation. I'm afraid that is a hill I can't climb.
God bless.

 

[for_his_glory]

May we take it that this is without scriptural support and does not take precedence over the spiritual ability of the natural man as declared in 1Cor. 2:14 quoted above.

The natural man knows nothing about Spiritual things nor could he ever know. In the natural I can say Jesus died for my sins, but if I do not act on faith, Hebrews 11:1, to believe that He did then I would not ever have the regeneration by the Holy Spirit upon confessing I am a sinner that needs Gods grace.

1Corinthians2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Jame 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

 

[for_his_glory]

This may seem like a dumb question but I need clarification. When using the word Regeneration how is that being applied? When I look up the meaning of the word in a dictionary it sounds more like what Paul speaks of when he talks about "putting on the new man" or "being made new in Christ." Wouldn't this then happen after coming to know Him?

you are correct,
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

[for_his_glory]

I suppose that to sincerely respond I would have to believe that there are 5 prerequisites to salvation. I'm afraid that is a hill I can't climb.
God bless.

Let me ask you a question. You say you are a Christian as it says yes by your name. How did you become born again?

 

[reba]

IT goes like this Jesus was the Lamb My salvation is in Him.

 

[Habak]

Let me ask you a question. You say you are a Christian as it says yes by your name. How did you become born again?

God came to me, by the Holy Spirit, and changed me; gave me a new heart that opened my eyes and ears to spiritual things.

 

[for_his_glory]

God came to me, by the Holy Spirit, and changed me; gave me a new heart that opened my eyes and ears to spiritual things.

And all that was done according to the five requirements I listed that you said was a hill you could not climb. It's not a hill, but a process as Salvation means to be whole mind, body and soul. God draws us to Him, John 6:44. First we recognize we are a sinner so we repent of our sin as by faith which is belief in Christ Jesus and the forgiveness of sin. After we repent God forgives our sin as His free gift of grace pardons us. Then we are Spiritually reborn again as we have faith to believe Jesus is the son of God and the finished works He did for us on the cross. The renewal that happens is a Spiritual renewal as he Holy Spirit now dwells in us and teaches us all things.

1. Confession - Acts 2:21; Romans 10:9, 10 - I am a sinner

2. Repentance - Mark 1:14, 15 - I am sorry for my sins

3. Faith - John 3:14-18 - I believe in whom Jesus said he was

4. Regeneration - John 3:3-8 - a renewal/rebirth of the inner man

5. Holy Scripture - 2 Timothy 3:15-17 - Study by allowing the Holy Spirit teach you

 

[reba]

Guess i will never understand why we will not have the faith of a child.. we got to make 'whatever' so complicated

 

[Habak]

Nope, wasn't like that at all.
I didn't experience it like that,
and I don't find anything in scripture to help me understand it like that.

To save creating even more confusion;
"First we recognize we are a sinner"
natural man doesn't do that; see above.

 

[Habak]

Guess i will never understand why we will not have the faith of a child.. we got to make 'whatever' so complicated

I don't know if it applies to the 'whatever' you have in mind, but just in case it might — I have said in the past "it only gets complicated when men try to be God"; meaning, He has told us as what we need to know to serve Him, when we try to know more and do more than that, it gets complicated.

 

[for_his_glory]

I don't know if it applies to the 'whatever' you have in mind, but just in case it might — I have said in the past "it only gets complicated when men try to be God"; meaning, He has told us as what we need to know to serve Him, when we try to know more and do more than that, it gets complicated.

Who is trying to be God? I for one would not want that responsibility. This is why we give scriptures so one can go learn what they mean by allowing the Holy Spirit teach them, John 14:26. We are only confused when we listen to all the different theories and doctrines without testing which ones are true, 1 John 4:1-6.

 

[Habak]

And all that was done according to the five requirements I listed that you said was a hill you could not climb. It's not a hill, but a process as Salvation means to be whole mind, body and soul. God draws us to Him, John 6:44. First we recognize we are a sinner so we repent of our sin as by faith which is belief in Christ Jesus and the forgiveness of sin. After we repent God forgives our sin as His free gift of grace pardons us. Then we are Spiritually reborn again as we have faith to believe Jesus is the son of God and the finished works He did for us on the cross. The renewal that happens is a Spiritual renewal as he Holy Spirit now dwells in us and teaches us all things.

1. Confession - Acts 2:21; Romans 10:9, 10 - I am a sinner

2. Repentance - Mark 1:14, 15 - I am sorry for my sins

3. Faith - John 3:14-18 - I believe in whom Jesus said he was

4. Regeneration - John 3:3-8 - a renewal/rebirth of the inner man

5. Holy Scripture - 2 Timothy 3:15-17 - Study by allowing the Holy Spirit teach you

I just realized, your list confused me (that happens regularly; my getting confused).
What you called "first", isn't first in your narrative. I highlighted the first thing. What do you call that?
And
Take a look at the scripture you cited for #4; why did Jesus ask the question in verse 10, "Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things?" What was missing to prompt that question? Was it not that Nicodemus was a natural, unregenerate, man and unable to properly understand that which he had studied all his life?

 

[for_his_glory]

Nope, wasn't like that at all.
I didn't experience it like that,
and I don't find anything in scripture to help me understand it like that.

To save creating even more confusion;
"First we recognize we are a sinner"
natural man doesn't do that; see above.

Everything I gave you in scripture does not come from me, but comes straight out of the mouth of Jesus. If scripture does not explain it to you then how do you know the Spiritual things of God. John 3:3-6; Romans 10:9,10; 1Corinthians 2:14; Titus 3:5 are very clear on what we have to do in order to enter the Kingdom of God as the natural man can never understand the Spiritual things, but can only use the logic rationalization of the carnal mind and the carnal mind that is in the natural man is enmity against God, Romans 8:7. These are not five steps I gave you, but a consecutive process that happens in us when we are Spiritually born again.

 

[Habak]

Who is trying to be God? I for one would not want that responsibility. This is why we give scriptures so one can go learn what they mean by allowing the Holy Spirit teach them, John 14:26. We are only confused when we listen to all the different theories and doctrines without testing which ones are true, 1 John 4:1-6.

Amen to that!

 

[Cygnus]

If regeneration precedes faith, and if faith is a condition for salvation, and if God wants ALL men to be saved, then that means that the whole world must be regenerated, which means that the whole world will be saved. Since that is Universalism, the first premise is false. Honesty about this issue is critical.

Regeneration cannot possibly precede faith. Only those who repent and believe, receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, and it is only upon receiving Him that a sinner is born again (a supernatural birth). It is the Holy Spirit who regenerates and renews.

But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:4-7).

The moment a sinner believes he is justified.
The moment he is justified he receives the Holy Spirit.
The moment he receives the Spirit he is born again.
The moment he is born again he receives eternal life.

I think regeneration precedes faith fits the Calvinist theme of being "dead in our trespasses" (can be used to line up w/ total depravity) and then regenerated by The Holy Spirit and made able and willing to respond to God's call to faith. Or...that's my take on it.

I think regeneration and faith happen at the same time.

We are regenerated and given the gift of faith. The gift of faith happens and we repent at the same time.

 

[reba]

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.