[_ Old Earth _] The Parting of the Red Sea.

[Asimov]

Very well, but why is it that his crossing sight is not in dispute? Both links you provide do not have anything archiological againstthe crossing site?

Where's the Archaeology proving that the Greek Gods did not live on Mt. Olympus. Where's the Archaeology that proves that King Menes of Crete did not have a Minotaur?

We do know that there is definitely no record in the Egyptian history that tells of a Pharoah who drowned, or of an exodus.

 

[Blazin Bones]

There is quite a difference between the Bible and the myths sited. The archiological and historical proof that supports the Bible is unequaled by the myths cited.

 

[Asimov]

There is quite a difference between the Bible and the myths sited. The archiological and historical proof that supports the Bible is unequaled by the myths cited.

No, not really. Troy existed, so does the island of Crete, Sparta, Greece....all these things are based on actual places and (possibly) actual people.

So far you have provided archaeological proof that Ron Wyatt is a liar.

 

[Blazin Bones]

No, not really. Troy existed, so does the island of Crete, Sparta, Greece....all these things are based on actual places and (possibly) actual people.

So far you have provided archaeological proof that Ron Wyatt is a liar.

http://www.bibleplus.com/discoveries/redsea.htm

The link I provided before suggests a contradictory Idea. Based on writtings from the Bible and Josephus, the location provided would be the Ideal location.

 

[Asimov]

No, not really. Troy existed, so does the island of Crete, Sparta, Greece....all these things are based on actual places and (possibly) actual people.

So far you have provided archaeological proof that Ron Wyatt is a liar.

http://www.bibleplus.com/discoveries/redsea.htm

The link I provided before suggests a contradictory Idea. Based on writtings from the Bible and Josephus, the location provided would be the Ideal location.

Possibly, that doesn't mean it actually happened. There are no known historical documents which provide corroboration to the exodus event.

 

[ThinkerMan]

No, not really. Troy existed, so does the island of Crete, Sparta, Greece....all these things are based on actual places and (possibly) actual people.

So far you have provided archaeological proof that Ron Wyatt is a liar.

http://www.bibleplus.com/discoveries/redsea.htm

The link I provided before suggests a contradictory Idea. Based on writtings from the Bible and Josephus, the location provided would be the Ideal location.

Look at this quote from this site...

The Bible also says that the Lord "made the wheels of their chariots come off so that they had difficulty driving" (Exodus 14:25) causing the Egyptian soldiers to become stuck. Expeditions diving along this underwater bridge discovered many coral encrusted chariots with their wheels detached. Some gold plated wheels were found indicating high level officials or priests were part of the group pursuing the Israelites. Also found were parts of skeletons of men and horses, all preserved by the coral covering them.

We hope to add some photographs here in the near future showing some of these underwater findings.

"We hope to add....."

Are you kidding me Brutus? Why don't they just add them now, so the archeological community and ourselves can take a gander?

No 24 hr developers in those parts? Is the scanner broken? Is AOL dial-up not working anymore?

If they have evidence....post it. If they don't, common sense says they have none.

I'm sorry Brutus, but to me this looks like simple conjecture and veiled promises of future "evidence".

 

[Blazin Bones]

Very well then. Let us move on to some less disputed sources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passage_of_Red_Sea

If I'm not mistaken, vorlon has used their site as a reference before. This link is merely another way to explain the discrepensies behind the story, and why these discrepencies themselves are reputable. Nothing greatly scientific.

http://redseacrossing.org/Exodus%20map1.17.html

If you search the pictures and captions given by this link, it show's some of the evidence not provided by my last link.

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

However, this hypothesis neglects the context of the story. Whatever "sea" the story refers to was clearly considered by the author of the Torah to be substantial enough to deluge Pharoah's army. It is hard to imagine the author relating a story of how the entire Egyptian army was drowned in six inches of water.

This uses the unsupported assumption that the entire Egyptian army had to have been killed in actuallity, there is little support from this in historical evidence, as Egypt would have almost immediately been invaded by Sudan had they sent so large a part of their army to die. More likely the Hebrew slaves who had been part of the Egyptian army hid in the swamp and ambushed the unit that was sent along behind them, if indeed such a thing happened.

Or perhaps even if they were crossing the Red sea at some fordable point, the heavier laden army simply sank into the muck.

 

[Blazin Bones]

Well, then again we have no real historical evidence that Sudan had any major authorities that would have risen up against the Egyptians. Neither is there any historical support for any powers being from the Region we know as Libya either. Part of the problem in trying to prove such a ponit of view as the Suddan Idea is that we don't have a date to set the events against.

 

[Asimov]

Well, then again we have no real historical evidence that Sudan had any major authorities that would have risen up against the Egyptians. Neither is there any historical support for any powers being from the Region we know as Libya either. Part of the problem in trying to prove such a ponit of view as the Suddan Idea is that we don't have a date to set the events against.

You're right, because conveniently, the bible gives no indication of what date it is.

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

Well, then again we have no real historical evidence that Sudan had any major authorities that would have risen up against the Egyptians. Neither is there any historical support for any powers being from the Region we know as Libya either. Part of the problem in trying to prove such a ponit of view as the Suddan Idea is that we don't have a date to set the events against.

Um...what about the numerous times that the Sudanese have attempted to take over Egypt during the times of Egyptian dynastic rule. The ancient sudanese did at one point take over some part of southern Egypt, IIRC and many times attempted to take Ethiopia, failing because of the nature of the region.

 

[Blazin Bones]

Um...what about the numerous times that the Sudanese have attempted to take over Egypt during the times of Egyptian dynastic rule. The ancient sudanese did at one point take over some part of southern Egypt, IIRC and many times attempted to take Ethiopia, failing because of the nature of the region.

You would still need to establish a time frame to continue such a theory. Records would need to be compared, dynasties of Suddan and Egypt would need to be established, and so forth.

 

[Asimov]

Um...what about the numerous times that the Sudanese have attempted to take over Egypt during the times of Egyptian dynastic rule. The ancient sudanese did at one point take over some part of southern Egypt, IIRC and many times attempted to take Ethiopia, failing because of the nature of the region.

You would still need to establish a time frame to continue such a theory. Records would need to be compared, dynasties of Suddan and Egypt would need to be established, and so forth.

So when did the Exodus occur?

 

[Blazin Bones]

Great question Asimov, unfortunately non of us were there so we can't be sure.

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

Great question Asimov, unfortunately non of us were there so we can't be sure.

Certainty comes in degrees, you're so sure that the universe is only 10000 years old, how can you not be sure of when moses lived.

Egypt kept some extensive records, there ought to be enough history to reconstruct when the time period was. What about the records of when the pharoh, reputed to have been the tyrant of the isrealites, lived. I think it may have been Ramses the second, I don't know however. Look up your own information.

 

[Blazin Bones]

Certainty comes in degrees, you're so sure that the universe is only 10000 years old, how can you not be sure of when moses lived.

Egypt kept some extensive records, there ought to be enough history to reconstruct when the time period was. What about the records of when the pharoh, reputed to have been the tyrant of the isrealites, lived. I think it may have been Ramses the second, I don't know however. Look up your own information.

Well then, if certainty comes in and you feel the universe is billions of years old, you should be able to use science to acruately plot out events as well, but you can't.

As for possible Exodus time frames, there are two heavily supported time frames. one would be around 1440 and the other sugfested time frame is 1240. Due to suggestions that the Biblical scrolls were updated in the time of the kings, many believe it would probably be around 1440.

 

[ThinkerMan]

I just saw this on the Daily Show last night (I've been trying to search the web without much success this morning for more information.)

In short, archeologists have found the tomb of Ramses II, traditionally thought of as the Pharaoh at the time of Exodus.

They also found the tomb of his oldest son, who Exodus 12:29 says was smote by God.

The skull of the son indicates he died of blunt force trama to the head, indicating either God didn't smite him, or Yahweh has a propensity for hammers.

Anyway, I know it neither "proves" nor "disproves" much, but I thought it was interesting.

The sources was the discovery channel, and it looks like it's airing this weekend.

 

[Asimov]

Certainty comes in degrees, you're so sure that the universe is only 10000 years old, how can you not be sure of when moses lived.

Egypt kept some extensive records, there ought to be enough history to reconstruct when the time period was. What about the records of when the pharoh, reputed to have been the tyrant of the isrealites, lived. I think it may have been Ramses the second, I don't know however. Look up your own information.

Well then, if certainty comes in and you feel the universe is billions of years old, you should be able to use science to acruately plot out events as well, but you can't.

As for possible Exodus time frames, there are two heavily supported time frames. one would be around 1440 and the other sugfested time frame is 1240. Due to suggestions that the Biblical scrolls were updated in the time of the kings, many believe it would probably be around 1440.

So we have (according to the biblical record) a period of 900 years between Noah's Flood, and the Exodus. Tell me...how exactly do we get from 8 people...to MORE than 2 million in the exodus, with distinct cultures, and so on, and so forth?

 

[Blazin Bones]

What source are you getting nine hundred years from?

 

[Asimov]

What source are you getting nine hundred years from?

According to YEC belief, Noah's Flood took place in 2400BC, using the time frame you provided of 1400BC, and we have approximately 900 years, depending on what years you use.