The Passover of God

[JLB]

Then should we not look first for the latter rain? It is not a rain like the first, but rather as in the beginning, when the Spirit of the Lord spoke with Adam in the cool of the day, when the morning dew watered the tender herbs.

Deuteronomy 32:1-3
Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak;
and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.
My doctrine shall drop as the rain,
my speech shall distil as the dew,
as the small rain upon the tender herb,
and as the showers upon the grass:
Because I will publish the name of the Lord:
ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

You do as the Spirit of God leads you, and you will do well.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I tell you to look for the coming of His Spirit; You look for the coming of a Man?

I already have the Spirit. Next is the return of Christ's physical body.

It's interesting to see you morph your doctrine as we expose the falseness of it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Because the revelation of Christ is a process. First you meet the man known as Jesus. Jesus introduces us to the Father who then demonstrates the power of the Holy Spirit given unto his Son. But the Son of Man came as a servant, even unto death. So if you await the coming of the Son of Man, what is it you are waiting to see? But the Glory of the Lord and his Salvation is known to us only through His Spirit, and that by FAITH.

The term "second" as it appears in Heb 9:28 simply means "afterwards." So if the people were just being introduced to Jesus, don't you think they would first have to believe, and then possibly prove themselves before that he would sent forth His Spirit afterward to those who look for his coming. The Day of Pentecost was certainly a fulfillment of the Holy Spirit being poured out, but it was a day in which it was poured out for a witness to them all who beheld it. But they like Thomas has the opportunity to believe because they had seen; But blessed are those who have not seen and have yet believed.

I tell you to look for the coming of His Spirit; You look for the coming of a Man?

Good grief, ezrider, in his letters to them Paul brags about the Thessalonians and their life in the Spirit, yet you say they still have yet to receive the second coming of Christ and that's why he makes note of their waiting for Jesus from heaven? Come on, dude.

9 For they themselves report about us what kind of a reception we had with you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God, 10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come. (1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 NASB)

 

[gracenote]

Wish we had a Like button....
(just sayin')

 

[WIP]

Let's remember to address the topic and not each other and keep in mind the guidelines for this forum. Questioning each others faith or otherwise demeaning where they are in their spiritual walk is a violation of the ToS 2.4.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Wish we had a Like button....
(just sayin')

If you're just sayin' what you wrote, then I'm just hearin' what I read. :wink

 

[ezrider]

I already have the Spirit. Next is the return of Christ's physical body.

It's interesting to see you morph your doctrine as we expose the falseness of it.

Jethro Bodine, there is no need to continue to try and declare what you don't understand as being false. The only thing that is being exposed is the folly of the doctrines of men. You have said in one of your previous posts that if you did not read your Bible, then your faith would certainly shrink. But I would have to ask if you place your faith in the words of a book or if you place your Faith in the Spirit of the living God?

I do not doubt that you have the Spirit of the Lord, but the question I would ask you is in what manner do you have the Spirit? For the Spirit of the Lord has always been present in the world, but the promise of Christ was that he would send for the Spirit to dwell within our hearts. This is the new creation, His Spirit joined with our spirit in one body, not as a Spirit who exists outside the body.

So when you say that you already have the Spirit does it remain outside of you, or do you possess the Spirit for yourself? If I were to look in the old testament, I could say that Moses had the Spirit of the Lord. Samuel had the Spirit of the Lord. David had the Spirit of the Lord, as did Isaiah, Jeremiah and the other of the prophets. John the Baptist had the Spirit of the Lord. But in each case they were anointed with the Spirit of the Lord and the Spirit did rest upon them like a mantle, but the one thing these all had in common was the Spirit of the Lord did not dwell within them, as they were still separated from the Lord.

You may know of the Spirit, but do you possess it for yourself? If you do not look for the Coming of His Spirit to come into your heart, then how can you truly know Christ? For greater is He that is in You than He that is in the world.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jethro Bodine, there is no need to continue to try and declare what you don't understand as being false.

What there is no need to continue to try to do is for you to try and teach your doctrine apart from the passage below. Nobody will understand this personal interpretation of yours that the second coming of Christ has occurred already until you explain how the Spirit-filled Thessalonian church was waiting for "His Son from heaven".

9 For they themselves report about us what kind of a reception we had with you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God, 10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come. (1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 NASB)

Please, no more explanations outside of this passage. If you can explain what this means according to your doctrine then maybe we'll all get it.

 

[ezrider]

What there is no need to continue to try to do is for you to try and teach your doctrine apart from the passage below. Nobody will understand this personal interpretation of yours that the second coming of Christ has occurred already until you explain how the Spirit-filled Thessalonian church was waiting for "His Son from heaven".

9 For they themselves report about us what kind of a reception we had with you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God, 10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come. (1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 NASB)

Please, no more explanations outside of this passage. If you can explain what this means according to your doctrine then maybe we'll all get it.

Before I try and take any more time trying to explain something that I doubt you are even trying to see for yourself, maybe I should ask you this: Have you taken it before the Lord and asked Him how can this be so, so that He might explain it to you?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Before I try and take any more time trying to explain something that I doubt you are even trying to see for yourself, maybe I should ask you this: Have you taken it before the Lord and asked Him how can this be so, so that He might explain it to you?

I have considered how it might be true.
I don't like to divulge how I debate doctrine, but I will tell you that I do it like a chess game. I always anticipate the person's rebuttal to my next move in the debate. I do that by walking through the various places they might try to go after I share something. And with your doctrine I have shared the passages of scripture that prevent you from moving your doctrinal chess pieces the way you are trying to.

When what we are 'hearing' is contradictory to what is written, we got a problem. And I've shown you where your doctrine contradicts plain scripture. Surely you remember that improperly dividing of the word thing we talked about? Your doctrine does that. It improperly lifts something out of the whole of scripture for examination and interpretation in a way that makes it violate the rest of the scriptures from where it came. We can claim 'we heard it from God' all day long, but if what we are heard contradicts the written word then what we heard didn't come from God.

 

[ezrider]

I have considered how it might be true.
I don't like to divulge how I debate doctrine, but I will tell you that I do it like a chess game. I always anticipate the person's rebuttal to my next move in the debate. I do that by walking through the various places they might try to go after I share something. And with your doctrine I have shared the passages of scripture that prevent you from moving your doctrinal chess pieces the way you are trying to.

When what we are 'hearing' is contradictory to what is written, we got a problem. And I've shown you where your doctrine contradicts plain scripture. Surely you remember that improperly dividing of the word thing we talked about? Your doctrine does that. It improperly lifts something out of the whole of scripture for examination and interpretation in a way that makes it violate the rest of the scriptures from where it came. We can claim 'we heard it from God' all day long, but if what we are heard contradicts the written word then what we heard didn't come from God.

Sorry, but I am not here to play games. The Pharisees liked to play games as well. I will have none of it! If you have considered how it might be true, then please share that. Otherwise I have nothing more to discuss with you on this matter.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Sorry, but I am not here to play games. The Pharisees liked to play games as well. I will have none of it!

But you are playing games. You're throwing all these distractions out instead of addressing the exact thing that is preventing your opponent from accepting what you claim you have received from God.

If you have considered how it might be true, then please share that. Otherwise I have nothing more to discuss with you on this matter.

See? A distraction designed to keep us talking about something else instead of the passage you should be addressing because it is the one that prevents me from accepting what you teach.

All by itself, improperly divided out from the whole of scripture, one could argue that the second coming of Christ is a spiritual coming that has already happened, not a physical one yet to come, by this passage:

16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot * receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. 18 "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 "After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also. 20 "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you." (John 14: 16-20 NASB)

So, you can rely on this as a diversion from talking about the passage that makes it so we can't interpret this as meaning Christ's return is a spiritual return, not a physical one, or you can directly address what is in my mind (the mind that needs convincing) the passage that negates your interpretation that Christ's return is a spiritual one and has already happened:

9 For they themselves report about us what kind of a reception we had with you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God, 10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come. (1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 NASB)

Since this is the sticking point for me, this is what you need to address directly if you want to convince me that the spiritual revelation you have received is the truth.

 

[ezrider]

All by itself, improperly divided out from the whole of scripture, one could argue that the second coming of Christ is a spiritual coming that has already happened, not a physical one yet to come, by this passage:

16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot * receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. 18 "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 "After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also. 20 "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you." (John 14: 16-20 NASB)

Properly divided in context with the promises of God as found in all of the scriptures, yes this is what I am speaking of; but it is not a coming that happened once, it is a coming that I would tell you happens for every generation. The coming of His Spirit to dwell in our hearts was the promise foretold by the Law and the Prophets to the generations to come. The second coming that you are expecting is the second death.

Since this is the sticking point for me, this is what you need to address directly if you want to convince me that the spiritual revelation you have received is the truth.

I will try and explain tomorrow. Perhaps if you would not have tried so hard to play a game, and had just come out and said that you can see what I am talking about according to John 14:16-20, but could I explain how that relates to 1 Thes 1:9-10; then I might have been more receptive to responding. But you have not even explained what contradiction you think that you see that you need me to explain in the first place. You just expect me to guess at which piece you moved on the board without revealing the piece that was moved. Maybe what you see and go after I consider to be a sacrificial piece. Or maybe sometimes we are just in denial and refuse to accept: Check Mate!

 

[JLB]

Jethro Bodine, there is no need to continue to try and declare what you don't understand as being false. The only thing that is being exposed is the folly of the doctrines of men. You have said in one of your previous posts that if you did not read your Bible, then your faith would certainly shrink. But I would have to ask if you place your faith in the words of a book or if you place your Faith in the Spirit of the living God?

I do not doubt that you have the Spirit of the Lord, but the question I would ask you is in what manner do you have the Spirit? For the Spirit of the Lord has always been present in the world, but the promise of Christ was that he would send for the Spirit to dwell within our hearts. This is the new creation, His Spirit joined with our spirit in one body, not as a Spirit who exists outside the body.

So when you say that you already have the Spirit does it remain outside of you, or do you possess the Spirit for yourself? If I were to look in the old testament, I could say that Moses had the Spirit of the Lord. Samuel had the Spirit of the Lord. David had the Spirit of the Lord, as did Isaiah, Jeremiah and the other of the prophets. John the Baptist had the Spirit of the Lord. But in each case they were anointed with the Spirit of the Lord and the Spirit did rest upon them like a mantle, but the one thing these all had in common was the Spirit of the Lord did not dwell within them, as they were still separated from the Lord.

You may know of the Spirit, but do you possess it for yourself? If you do not look for the Coming of His Spirit to come into your heart, then how can you truly know Christ? For greater is He that is in You than He that is in the world.

Wrong again.

They had the Spirit within them.

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11

JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The second coming that you are expecting is the second death.

No. The second death if for unbelievers.

6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
(Revelation 20:6,14 NASB)

Perhaps if you would not have tried so hard to play a game, and had just come out and said that you can see what I am talking about according to John 14:16-20, but could I explain how that relates to 1 Thes 1:9-10; then I might have been more receptive to responding. But you have not even explained what contradiction you think that you see that you need me to explain in the first place.

Why haven't you been understanding my posts?
This is probably the single most discouraging thing about this forum. People who want to debate you but who won't take the time to comprehend your posts.

 

[ezrider]

No. The second death if for unbelievers.

The Word was manifest in the flesh, and they beheld the glory of the only begotten of the Father (John 1:13-14). He came in the image of sinful flesh, and humbled himself and became a servant even unto death (Philippians 2:5-8). The image of his flesh is the Glory of His Death. If you await the appearance of His physical return, then you wait to glory in the image of his death, and you will find that you await the second death. For in that day he shall say unto you depart from me you workers of iniquity, for I never knew you (Matthew 7:21-23).

But I do not glory in his death, I Glory in His resurrection and the promise of everlasting life through His Spirit, for the Spirit of Christ is a quickening Spirit (1 Cor 15:45). For by His Spirit He has been made to appear within our heart apart from sin unto salvation (Hebrews 9:28), for God has chosen us from the begging to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit (2 Thes 2:13). He has not appointed us unto wrath, but unto salvation by the Spirit of Jesus Christ (1 Thes 5:9), and He has made known unto us the mystery that has been hid from all ages, and that is the knowledge of Christ is us (Col 1:26-27) by the Promise of the Father and the Word of the Son that He would send forth the Comforter whom He would come to dwell within our hearts in His Name if we look for His coming and we receive Him into our hearts (John 14:16-20)

And lest you forget yourself, there is a resurrection unto everlasting life, and a resurrection unto damnation (John 5:29). Will you Glory in the resurrection of His Life? Or will you Glory in his flesh and the Resurrection of Death?

Consider this my response to your other question on 1 Thes 1:9-10.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

..

The Word was manifest in the flesh, and they beheld the glory of the only begotten of the Father (John 1:13-14). He came in the image of sinful flesh, and humbled himself and became a servant even unto death (Philippians 2:5-8). The image of his flesh is the Glory of His Death. If you await the appearance of His physical return, then you wait to glory in the image of his death, and you will find that you await the second death. For in that day he shall say unto you depart from me you workers of iniquity, for I never knew you (Matthew 7:21-23).

But I do not glory in his death, I Glory in His resurrection and the promise of everlasting life through His Spirit, for the Spirit of Christ is a quickening Spirit (1 Cor 15:45). For by His Spirit He has been made to appear within our heart apart from sin unto salvation (Hebrews 9:28), for God has chosen us from the begging to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit (2 Thes 2:13). He has not appointed us unto wrath, but unto salvation by the Spirit of Jesus Christ (1 Thes 5:9), and He has made known unto us the mystery that has been hid from all ages, and that is the knowledge of Christ is us (Col 1:26-27) by the Promise of the Father and the Word of the Son that He would send forth the Comforter whom He would come to dwell within our hearts in His Name if we look for His coming and we receive Him into our hearts (John 14:16-20)

And lest you forget yourself, there is a resurrection unto everlasting life, and a resurrection unto damnation (John 5:29). Will you Glory in the resurrection of His Life? Or will you Glory in his flesh and the Resurrection of Death?

Consider this my response to your other question on 1 Thes 1:9-10.

Your evading your own doctrine. You say the second coming has already occurred in the giving of the Holy Spirit which the Thessalonians had received, and that there is no other second coming of Christ, so what son were the Thessalonians waiting for from heaven?

 

[ezrider]

..

Your evading your own doctrine. You say the second coming has already occurred in the giving of the Holy Spirit which the Thessalonians had received, and that there is no other second coming of Christ, so what son were the Thessalonians waiting for from heaven?

Tell me, in Matthew 24:34 were Jesus says verily I say unto you This Generation shall not pass... What generation was Jesus speaking of?

 

[ezrider]

Wrong again.

They had the Spirit within them.

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11

JLB

There you go again. Always looking to the scripture, looking to find something that you might use to accuse of false doctrine. But apparently that is all that you are interested in; false doctrines. You have your knowledge that comes from the scripture, and it is knowledge that you hold in unrighteousness because it does not come by faith (Rom 1:18). Tell me, how can you hear the Spirit of the Word of God when you sit in judgement over the word of God?

You think you have found something that proves me wrong, but all along I have been talking about the coming of the Spirit of the Lord in accordance with His Promises, so please explain the contradiction then when we read in the scriptures that all these died in the faith not having received the promises?

Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

[edited by staff]
Jesus was resurrected in a glorified body and went to the true Tabernacle in heaven (Hebrews 9:24 NASB). He went there in a glorified body, not as a ghost (Luke 24:39 NASB). And he will be coming back from heaven (Hebrews 9:28 NASB). His glorified body is the first fruits of the rest of us who will also receive glorified bodies at the resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:22-23 NASB). You say he has already come back yet none of us have those resurrected bodies. And if I'm understanding you correctly, you are calling the glorified body he now has a sinful body.