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The Pentacostal Movement

I think this is much more serious than human stupidity. The point I was trying to make in my first example was that a person who could not possibility be operating in the Holy Spirit was nevertheless able to manifest in other people the same physical demonstrations of what is accepted in the pentacostal movement as evidence of the Holy Spirit. The only answer in my mind is another spirit fooling some into thinking they are being moved by the Holy Spirit.


James Ch1
13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. 17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. 18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.


its gods church since when does he let demons run the show? If you begin to think that you have attributed them with immense power that they don't have. If you are going to fear demons remember there are angels too sorting it out.

I know that passage is about temptation but it talks about human nature being a factor you cant just blame it on demons entirely they may play a part but how do you tell?
 
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I have no idea what you are even trying to say unless you mean we should bury our heads in the sand so we do not notice anything wrong.

If we are worshiping with other believers and on the receiving end of ministry, what is one doing looking around at others? It's all about Jesus. We are to fix our eyes on Him, seek Him, receive from Him. Judging what Holy Spirit is doing in the room is counter Him doing anything in you.

If you were watching some sort of broadcast, same thing holds true.

People are entering into a deeper place with God and to simply observe and critique is not of God.
 
James Ch1
13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.†For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. 17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. 18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.


its gods church since when does he let demons run the show? If you begin to think that you have attributed them with immense power that they don't have. If you are going to fear demons remember there are angels too sorting it out.

I know that passage is about temptation but it talks about human nature being a factor you cant just blame it on demons entirely they may play a part but how do you tell?
I feel like laughting out of frustration, instead of you and Albaster trying to look down upon me from your great positions of wisdom and show me the error of my way(what egos)why not just address the actual issue???
When does God let demons run the show? Gal 1:6 I marvel that you are so soon removed from Him(Holy Spirit)that called you into the grace of Christ unto ANOTHER GOSPEL which is NOT another. 2Cor 11:4 or if you RECEIVE ANOTHER SPIRIT, which you have not received. Read the bible, the churches in the New Testament had pseudo christians who were operating under a spirit not of God and fooling some of the christians...and it IS happening today.
 
so, God doesnt show up because a sinner is in the room?
i have been to some awesome services, yet got nothing out of them because i sat back and didnt particpate.

you get what you put in. one doesnt need a body of men in a building to have church. that isnt to say that one doesnt or shouldnt attend a local body.i have gotten more outside of any church then in church.why? because when i really talked to god then i was in expercience his presence.one can be in church and not feel anything from god.i have done that in baptist, and charismatic churches.

and the opposite also has been the case as well.
 
James Ch1
13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.†For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. 17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. 18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.


its gods church since when does he let demons run the show? If you begin to think that you have attributed them with immense power that they don't have. If you are going to fear demons remember there are angels too sorting it out.

I know that passage is about temptation but it talks about human nature being a factor you cant just blame it on demons entirely they may play a part but how do you tell?

I really agree with you Chris. Calling something demonic is pretty much blasphemy and that is a terrifying thought! I know someone mentioned Todd Bentley in an earlier post.

I don't agree with his theology, nor do I listen to his teachings, but one thing I can say without a doubt is that many Holy Spirit God-loving Christians were getting healed at the Lakeland Revivals. It's not the person that does the healing, nor that takes the glory. It is God Almighty and God Almighty alone and He does it for His people!

Once I watched some videos about Todd Bentley on YouTube and was going around bad mouthing him. The Lord convicted me on that and I had to repent. Saul was in grave error against the Lord and yet David refused to touch one single hair on his head. This is what we all, myself included, (on this forum especially) must remember when talking about false prophets and teachers. We can't judge hearts, especially from YouTube videos. Nor even theology for that matter. I saw some quotes claiming one certain person to be a false prophet and yet the quotes were all taken out of context and misconstrued!

As far as laughing or mocking those who flip flop around like fishes or laugh hysterically. That is not something I'm willing to do.

I have a highly respected spiritual elder/mentor who once told me a little story. She thought that laughing hysterically was not of God and demonic. She was firmly against it. One day she was at a church meeting when this broke out amongst the people. Then suddenly this "Holy Spirit Laughter" fell upon her and made a believer out of her and caused her to grow in love in the Lord.

What she taught me was "DO NOT MOCK/JUDGE" because one day that could be you. And someone will be mocking and judging you for what you judged others for.

Scary thought!

I used to think being slain in the spirit was not of God. And then I watched a healer (at a healing service) not even touch someone (who is staunchly against being slain in the spirit) go straight down like a bullet. It certainly changed my mind because this person was such a strong resister of this practice.

I'm not sure about flip flopping or hysterical laughing, but I won't judge those who go that route. They desire God so much they are willing to humiliate themselves to seek closeness with them. That is not something that I can personally attest to. I don't want to be that person laughing hysterically in public. (I've done it in private, but I don't think it counts sense the Lord told me an extremely funny joke and I simply couldn't stop laughing lol) Those who laugh hysterically seem to do so for no reason or "the joy of the Lord" or something.

Anyways, a few of my rambling thoughts. Your posts are always very rooted in love, Chris. I appreciate your input. Whether things are demonic or not, only God can say, but I agree with you. Some of this stuff seems to come out of the flesh. For how can the Holy Spirit dwell with the demonic? A house divided falls.
 
I feel like laughting out of frustration, instead of you and Albaster trying to look down upon me from your great positions of wisdom and show me the error of my way(what egos)why not just address the actual issue???

Excuse me...I take a bit of offense at that one.


When does God let demons run the show? Gal 1:6 I marvel that you are so soon removed from Him(Holy Spirit)that called you into the grace of Christ unto ANOTHER GOSPEL which is NOT another. 2Cor 11:4 or if you RECEIVE ANOTHER SPIRIT, which you have not received. Read the bible, the churches in the New Testament had pseudo christians who were operating under a spirit not of God and fooling some of the christians...and it IS happening today.

God doesn't let demons run the show, but people do. We are to exercise the authority over them that Jesus has given us. If demons muddy the waters it's the people's fault.

However, when the Holy Spirit is welcomed and He is manifesting His presence, the enemy has left the building!
 
I really agree with you Chris. Calling something demonic is pretty much blasphemy and that is a terrifying thought! I know someone mentioned Todd Bentley in an earlier post.

I don't agree with his theology, nor do I listen to his teachings, but one thing I can say without a doubt is that many Holy Spirit God-loving Christians were getting healed at the Lakeland Revivals. It's not the person that does the healing, nor that takes the glory. It is God Almighty and God Almighty alone and He does it for His people!

Once I watched some videos about Todd Bentley on YouTube and was going around bad mouthing him. The Lord convicted me on that and I had to repent. Saul was in grave error against the Lord and yet David refused to touch one single hair on his head. This is what we all, myself included, (on this forum especially) must remember when talking about false prophets and teachers. We can't judge hearts, especially from YouTube videos. Nor even theology for that matter. I saw some quotes claiming one certain person to be a false prophet and yet the quotes were all taken out of context and misconstrued!

As far as laughing or mocking those who flip flop around like fishes or laugh hysterically. That is not something I'm willing to do.

I have a highly respected spiritual elder/mentor who once told me a little story. She thought that laughing hysterically was not of God and demonic. She was firmly against it. One day she was at a church meeting when this broke out amongst the people. Then suddenly this "Holy Spirit Laughter" fell upon her and made a believer out of her and caused her to grow in love in the Lord.

What she taught me was "DO NOT MOCK/JUDGE" because one day that could be you. And someone will be mocking and judging you for what you judged others for.

Scary thought!

I used to think being slain in the spirit was not of God. And then I watched a healer (at a healing service) not even touch someone (who is staunchly against being slain in the spirit) go straight down like a bullet. It certainly changed my mind because this person was such a strong resister of this practice.

I'm not sure about flip flopping or hysterical laughing, but I won't judge those who go that route. They desire God so much they are willing to humiliate themselves to seek closeness with them. That is not something that I can personally attest to. I don't want to be that person laughing hysterically in public. (I've done it in private, but I don't think it counts sense the Lord told me an extremely funny joke and I simply couldn't stop laughing lol) Those who laugh hysterically seem to do so for no reason or "the joy of the Lord" or something.

Anyways, a few of my rambling thoughts. Your posts are always very rooted in love, Chris. I appreciate your input. Whether things are demonic or not, only God can say, but I agree with you. Some of this stuff seems to come out of the flesh. For how can the Holy Spirit dwell with the demonic? A house divided falls.
this poster is most unemetional in church. oh yes i feel them but i dont shout,dance and sing out loud.thats fine others are. neither are wrong.i have been slain in the spirit and also have moments of laughter.
 
this poster is most unemetional in church. oh yes i feel them but i dont shout,dance and sing out loud.thats fine others are. neither are wrong.i have been slain in the spirit and also have moments of laughter.

This is exactly why I am not willing to judge anyone in these matters. Your fruit on this forum bare the fruit of the Spirit and you are a Spirit filled believer. Imagine if I condemned the Holy Spirit laughing thing? I would be literally condemning the Holy Spirit. That thought alone makes me want to run away, and hide myself in shame.

And correct me if I'm wrong Chris, I know you were recently slain in the Spirit, but that before that you did not believe in this practice and that God made a believer out of you? Did I get that right? Again, if I had condemned being slain in the Spirit I would literally have condemned the Holy Spirit because you are another Spirit-filled believer bearing Spirit fruits.

Ahhhh, scary stuff!!!

I can honestly say, that these type of things make me uncomfortable. I don't want to experience them myself. But I refuse to judge those who are, lest I provoke God and find myself flopping around on the floor like a fish.

Respect for the Brethren :yes
 
This is exactly why I am not willing to judge anyone in these matters. Your fruit on this forum bare the fruit of the Spirit and you are a Spirit filled believer. Imagine if I condemned the Holy Spirit laughing thing? I would be literally condemning the Holy Spirit. That thought alone makes me want to run away, and hide myself in shame.

And correct me if I'm wrong Chris, I know you were recently slain in the Spirit, but that before that you did not believe in this practice and that God made a believer out of you? Did I get that right? Again, if I had condemned being slain in the Spirit I would literally have condemned the Holy Spirit because you are another Spirit-filled believer bearing Spirit fruits.

Ahhhh, scary stuff!!!

I can honestly say, that these type of things make me uncomfortable. I don't want to experience them myself. But I refuse to judge those who are, lest I provoke God and find myself flopping around on the floor like a fish.

Respect for the Brethren :yes

hmm. should i or should i not?that be the question.

what i'm refering too is how the charismatic movement has gone of the deep end and claims thing that arent of God.

i hate that junk. one musnt put the gifts above the giver of them. some churches teach that one groans in the spirit like an orgasm! that isnt of god at all. grunting like that i dont see it that way.i have never heard that in any of the charismatic churches i have been in.
 
Fear of people I guess, Todd Bentley was knocking people off their feet(no absolute proof of healings) and he entered into adultery and then married the woman and then continued to knock people off their feet. Is anyone so totally out of the realm of the knowledge of God as to believe that God would continue an anointing after such a sin against God? O yeah, after breaking covenant with God, Samson went right out and slew the enemy...don't think so...and Samson knew not that the Lord had departed from him.
My point was that if the anointing continued after the adultery then it could not be God...is that hard to understand or does anyone actually read and believe the bible in this forum? Are christians really that deceived today, God would not help the people of Israel because one man sinned!!! For crying out loud, if someone is breaking the commands of God and operating in an anointing then it is not of God.
 
Fear of people I guess, Todd Bentley was knocking people off their feet(no absolute proof of healings) and he entered into adultery and then married the woman and then continued to knock people off their feet. Is anyone so totally out of the realm of the knowledge of God as to believe that God would continue an anointing after such a sin against God? O yeah, after breaking covenant with God, Samson went right out and slew the enemy...don't think so...and Samson knew not that the Lord had departed from him.
My point was that if the anointing continued after the adultery then it could not be God...is that hard to understand or does anyone actually read and believe the bible in this forum? Are christians really that deceived today, God would not help the people of Israel because one man sinned!!! For crying out loud, if someone is breaking the commands of God and operating in an anointing then it is not of God.
sin free? what sin have you repented of just now? i dont base experciences without the bible.but what makes me believe you?

i can also happen in any baptist church or non-charismatic. sure theres quacks

didnt solomon repent. he was into idolatry when he wrote parts of the bible according to some as he wrote the book of eclessiates late in life. but how could that be? didnt he turn from the lord?
 
Excuse me...I take a bit of offense at that one.




God doesn't let demons run the show, but people do. We are to exercise the authority over them that Jesus has given us. If demons muddy the waters it's the people's fault.

However, when the Holy Spirit is welcomed and He is manifesting His presence, the enemy has left the building!
Or has he??? That is the purpose of this post. After years of being in this movement I am beginning to see(from the Lord)that not everything that looks like a rose is a rose...it is time we take a little closer look and ask God to open our eyes...Jesus said that those having a false anointing would be in the church in the last days, they are here, we can start to recognize it or we can embrace it and be a part of it,many are already a part of it.
 
Or has he??? That is the purpose of this post. After years of being in this movement I am beginning to see(from the Lord)that not everything that looks like a rose is a rose...it is time we take a little closer look and ask God to open our eyes...Jesus said that those having a false anointing would be in the church in the last days, they are here, we can start to recognize it or we can embrace it and be a part of it,many are already a part of it.

I do not preclude that fact that there could be a very real possibility that a person or persons who are demonized are in attendance. In fact, I have witnessed a demonic manifestation in church a couple times.

The point is, we have been given the authority to deal with it.

I trust the discernment God gives and the authority He gives to deal with any demonic sabotage. Normally, the presence of the Holy Spirit is a repellent, except sometimes some religious demons play up to Him.
 
Ah I see it was your opinion that demonic involvement was the culprit not so much measurable evidence of any sort. I am not picking on you but am very curios how Christians steadfastly claim the work of demons accurately substantiate the claim. (we should know this in case opponents of our faith challenge us to an explanation) I am still trying to work out how myself for the same reason.

1 Thessalonians 5 NLT

19 Do not stifle the Holy Spirit. 20 Do not scoff at prophecies, 21 but test everything that is said. Hold on to what is good. 22 Stay away from every kind of evil.



sorry bout being a fussy pain I was just doing that.

Rather than just agree because its in a forum- yup it must be a demon coz someone said it.

Things must be weighed and measured correctly rather than just assume.

It seems everything has the right to be fairly tested.

We must hold onto good things rather than reject everything just in case.
Well then we need to establish some basic rules for determining the truth. Rule no 1) God will not tell you something contrary to the scripture he has already given.
Rule no 2)
 
Fear of people I guess, Todd Bentley was knocking people off their feet(no absolute proof of healings) and he entered into adultery and then married the woman and then continued to knock people off their feet. Is anyone so totally out of the realm of the knowledge of God as to believe that God would continue an anointing after such a sin against God? O yeah, after breaking covenant with God, Samson went right out and slew the enemy...don't think so...and Samson knew not that the Lord had departed from him.
My point was that if the anointing continued after the adultery then it could not be God...is that hard to understand or does anyone actually read and believe the bible in this forum? Are christians really that deceived today, God would not help the people of Israel because one man sinned!!! For crying out loud, if someone is breaking the commands of God and operating in an anointing then it is not of God.

You're growing increasingly hostile, judgmental, and condemning and you honestly think people will take you seriously?

"no absolute proof of healings"

How do you know? Do you have absolute proof of this? Did you question every single one of the thousands of people who attended the Lakeland meetings?

IMO, you are playing in dangerous ground staunchly condemning things in the manner you are doing.

I am no Todd Bentley supporter, and as for me and my house we will not be under his teachings or attend his meetings.

I'm simply saying I will not condemn a man I do not know. Only God can look into someone's heart.

Sin is disgusting before God, but the New Testament shows a God humbling Himself to an angry, sexually immoral, mocking, bunch of sinners so He could save their souls. Mercy and Grace overflow on the earth so that none will turn away from the gift of Salvation (not so with the Old Testament period. Where sin is grace does much more abound. That is one of the most profound statements the Lord could ever make.
 
hmm. should i or should i not?that be the question.

what i'm refering too is how the charismatic movement has gone of the deep end and claims thing that arent of God.

i hate that junk. one musnt put the gifts above the giver of them. some churches teach that one groans in the spirit like an orgasm! that isnt of god at all. grunting like that i dont see it that way.i have never heard that in any of the charismatic churches i have been in.

I agree Jason. There is stuff out there that scares me. But I take it to the Lord. The leaders will stand before God if they are or are not operating in the flesh or operating in the Spirit. I just don't want to usurp the throne from God and judge them before their time.

But however crazy stuff gets, the heart of the sheep I see as pure before God, which is why you see the Holy Spirit move even when the leaders are operating in the flesh. When Todd Bentley sinned and was exposed to the world, the Lakeland meetings stopped.

The Body of Christ is sincerely seeking their Lord with purity in their hearts and are willing to humiliate themselves knowing that other Christians condemn them as operating in the demonic! And, yet they don't care! Their hearts are so earnest for the Lord they are willing to be mocked and laughed at.

This is why I'm not willing to judge, mock, or laugh. What a terrifying thought to do this to a humble servant of the Lord.

David accidentally exposed himself because of his pure worship for the Lord. Michal judged and condemned him and was cursed barren until the day she died.

Scary stuff....
 
Irrational fear has probably done more to hinder this movement than all the many screwups.
 
And here I thought the beginning of all wisdom was the fear of the Lord.

I don't expect anything less from you, though, Hitch :lol
 
I agree Jason. There is stuff out there that scares me. But I take it to the Lord. The leaders will stand before God if they are or are not operating in the flesh or operating in the Spirit. I just don't want to usurp the throne from God and judge them before their time.

But however crazy stuff gets, the heart of the sheep I see as pure before God, which is why you see the Holy Spirit move even when the leaders are operating in the flesh. When Todd Bentley sinned and was exposed to the world, the Lakeland meetings stopped.

The Body of Christ is sincerely seeking their Lord with purity in their hearts


How do you know? Do you have absolute proof of this?\\ Well ???
and are willing to humiliate themselves knowing that other Christians condemn them as operating in the demonic! And, yet they don't care! Their hearts are so earnest for the Lord they are willing to be mocked and laughed at.

This is why I'm not willing to judge, mock, or laugh. What a terrifying thought to do this to a humble servant of the Lord.

David accidentally exposed himself because of his pure worship for the Lord. Michal judged and condemned him and was cursed barren until the day she died.

Scary stuff....
How do you know? Do you have absolute proof of this


Whats the matter Lords cant you be asked the same questions you put out? What makes you special?
 
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