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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
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The Pentacostal Movement
- Thread starter Sam21
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #42
christians willing to HUMILIATE themselves?, telling people they need the Holy Spirit up their butt is self humilation but not something of the Lord. Why would God through Paul tell the church to do EVERYTHING decently and in order? No one is mocking or laughing, but we need to recognize that if we do not follow what is in scripture then satan will make a fool out of us. The reason a tattoo,earring, fast talker was there in the first place was because no one checked out anything he said to see if it were true or not. Surprise,surprise,he dumped his wife and got a younger one and CONTINUES RIGHT ON, and O my, we should not judge him...christians today are so deceived because they do not know the bible or the mind of God by reading the bible. And by the way, the bible does not say David EXPOSED himself, it says that his wife despised him and SHE said that he exposed himself(derogatory remark).
theLords
Member
- Sep 12, 2010
- 4,720
- 1
Is the servant above the Master? Was Christ not willing to humiliate Himself for our sake? Was He not stripped naked, mocked, and humiliated before the Jews and the Romans for the sake of our salvation?
2 Samuel 6:21-22 (NIV)
"David said to Michal, “It was before the LORD, who chose me rather than your father or anyone from his house when he appointed me ruler over the LORD’s people Israel—I will celebrate before the LORD. I will become even more undignified than this, and I will be humiliated in my own eyes. (*and obviously in the eyes of others) But by these slave girls you spoke of, I will be held in honor.”
I did not say anything about the leaders who say such things like "You need the spirit up your but" except that I was not willing to condemn them for I am not God who can see inside of their hearts and souls.
What I did address where those honest Christians who get caught up in this movements because of their pure desire to seek the Lord. He protects them. I used to watch all the Christian networks when I was a baby Christian. They fed me, and you know what? God protected me from defiled theology. He told me that I could no longer watch those networks one day and I have been obeying that command. I didn't understand why God said this until I began to grow in the Word.
The Bible says that David did uncover himself:
However that is not a literal meaning. Showing your undergarments was the same as being exposed naked in Jewish culture. (Ezekiel? The father in the parable of the prodigal son?)
And as far as judging. I'm going to stick with what Christ has to say on the matter lest I reap chastisement of God on my head.
Matt. 7:1 (NIV)
Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
Galatians 6:7 (NIV)
Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
The Bible says to test the spirits, not condemn them. Even archangel Michael refused to condemn Satan. He knew his place.
There is a difference between discerning things that are not of God and condemning or judging a person. A person in what is apparently a very public ministry says we need to shove the Holy Spirit up our butts (or however that was said) and we are not supposed to question this? That is blind!
Is the person also still committing adultery, or has he repented of it? (Sorry for my ignorance, but I no longer watch any of the televised ministries. Not that they are all bad, I just don't happen to watch them. So I'm not up on who's currently sleeping with who, etc.) We all sin, and when we repent, ask forgiveness, and turn back to God, He can still use us, although sometimes in different ways. But if this is an ongoing, unrepented sin in this minister's life, and it actually is adultery, not just someone who doesn't like him falsely accusing him of adultery, it is hard to imagine God continuing to bless his ministry while he is setting an example of unrepented sin.
Is the person also still committing adultery, or has he repented of it? (Sorry for my ignorance, but I no longer watch any of the televised ministries. Not that they are all bad, I just don't happen to watch them. So I'm not up on who's currently sleeping with who, etc.) We all sin, and when we repent, ask forgiveness, and turn back to God, He can still use us, although sometimes in different ways. But if this is an ongoing, unrepented sin in this minister's life, and it actually is adultery, not just someone who doesn't like him falsely accusing him of adultery, it is hard to imagine God continuing to bless his ministry while he is setting an example of unrepented sin.
theLords
Member
- Sep 12, 2010
- 4,720
- 1
Again, I didn't say that. I really wish my words would not be misconstrued, and would appreciate it if if you responded to my own words instead of the words of another poster accusing me of saying this. I never at any point addressed this butt comment floating around.
Honestly, I would really like to see/hear this statement at this point, otherwise we are simply gossiping on hearsay. My google search found nothing.
A
Alabaster
Guest
I think it is most likely the old YouTube video of Benny Hinn's ex-wife from years ago, where she brought up the notion of an enema.
If it bothers people so much, leave it alone. Unless this troupe comes to their particular church, where they would have a say in the matter if they are members, then they need to stop making judgments and leave them alone.
We are responsible to God for how we behave toward Him and how we allow the Holy Spirit to manifest.
Watching old snippets of videos and making disdainful comments on what may or may not be the truth of a matter is not really wise behaviour and it does constitute gossip and in some people, murmuring.
What in the world are you talking about? I didn't quote you and wasn't even responding directly to anything you said! Maybe I would appreciate it if you didn't misconstrue my words! My comments were about the thread and what seems to be it's general trend, It was not about you. If anything, I was responding to Sam's repeated astonishment that no one seemed to be questioning someone in a public ministry that makes a comment like that.
theLords
Member
- Sep 12, 2010
- 4,720
- 1
Your post was underneath mine, and Sam was the one of accusing me exactly what you said "and we are not supposed to question this? That is blind!"
I was not being hostile towards you, but gently asking you to not misconstrue my comments because I perceived you were for the reasons mentioned above. There's no need to grow hostile about it.
I have no control over where my comment gets placed in the thread. If you as a moderator, can move it, please move it to wherever you feel I should have placed it.
No, this does not come across as "gently asking" when I never mentioned you and wasn't even responding to you or to anything another poster said about you. Especially coming from a mod, this comes across as a false accusation and not gentle at all.
You've been upset at a couple of other posters here as well. Perhaps we should both leave this thread alone until tomorrow, then come back to it with a fresh outlook to hear what others have to say about the original post. At least that's what I'm going to do.
C
Chris
Guest
Thank you so much for your nice post I see god in you too it comes out through your words in all your posts. I have encountered the holy spirit quite a few times The slain in the spirit thing I didn't even know what it was before it happened, I got told later after what happened to me. what I do know after it happened I was unable to resist prayer and doing things for god. It lasted about a week before I went back to normal It was like when you first become a christian again. Nothing seemed odd at all In the service it was revering to god and the holy spirit. If that could make me go on the ground when I was resisting maybe filling dudes with the holy spirit might do it different ways too.
If I saw weird stuff I would be skeptical too especially requesting a holy enima. I would soo make fun of that if I was there, how could you resist that! that would be the brunt of all jokes for months lol.
Poor Sam is getting picked on a bit and i hope it wasn't because of me. Sam you are entitled to an opinion even if it differs from some of ours.
All I was pointing out was if we attempt to claim evil supernatural involvement its going to be really hard to prove effectively. I thought we owe it to ourselves to be able to know for sure, with the best evidence we can. I wasn't trying to pick on you I was trying to work this out myself as well.
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theLords
Member
- Sep 12, 2010
- 4,720
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This is not the issue. Many members respond to a post above theirs without quoting with the understanding that they are responding to the post above theirs. I incorrectly thought you were addressing my post in this manner.
I don't know how much more gentle "I'd appreciate it if" can be? I sincerely thought you were replying to me for the reasons I have already specified. You stated your words in exactly the same manner someone else did so I put 2 and 2 together and thought you were addressing me. As I mentioned in my other post. I perceived this, and perception is not fact.
You thought I was falsely accusing you, and so you got defensive and then proceeded to respond accordingly. Which surprised me, as I was being respectful in my statement despite it being based on an incorrect perception that you were addressing me.
I am not upset with anyone. So I don't know where you are getting that comment from? You're making that assumption and I don't appreciate it. It's rather unfair, no? Would you appreciate someone talking to you this way?
At any rate. There is no need to continue this discussion further. I already stated I incorrectly perceived your statement as being towards me.
I am simply asking for the same respect that I have shown you.
theLords
Member
- Sep 12, 2010
- 4,720
- 1
That's very kind of you. It's wonderful that God receives all the praise and glory for who we can be when operating out of love. :D
I think this is a delicate balance as well. How can we be Bible Bereans, rooted in love, non-judgmental yet still discerning while also taking a stand in righteousness anger.
It's difficult, but it's possible! If only we could figure it out.
I simply think (not addressing leaders) the Bride of Christ is so thirsty for knowledge of her Bridegroom she is willing to make herself lowly for Him. I think God honors that.
- Thread starter
- #54
So many folks trying to straighten me and everyone else out that the point was not even considered. My point was that there seems to be a false anointing in the pentecostal movement today and people are accepting it. I just used a couple of outlandish examples in order to make the point that what was happening could not be the anointing of the Spirit of God yet it was being accepted as such and appeared similar.
There may be some in here who feel that God would move on Mrs Hinn is such a way that she would move about like a beast in a cage and tell people that they need the HS up their butt(I feel scared even writting that) and then flop on the floor. If you cannot discern that the spirit moving her was not of the Lord then you are part of the problem not the answer. This is not mocking or laughing at Mrs Hinn, I have great respect for her as a human being and mocking is not my style, however it is obvious that christians in this movement ARE yeilding to "another spirit"and it is sad to see other christians strive to defend the ridiculous.
When we read the BIBLE we find Paul telling the believers not to meet and all speak in tongues because of how it would appear to the lost or ungifted, Paul was that concerned about being decent and in order. Christians need to wake up and recognize that the pentecostal movement has the move of God at times and mixed right in it other spirits...iron mixed with clay.
There may be some in here who feel that God would move on Mrs Hinn is such a way that she would move about like a beast in a cage and tell people that they need the HS up their butt(I feel scared even writting that) and then flop on the floor. If you cannot discern that the spirit moving her was not of the Lord then you are part of the problem not the answer. This is not mocking or laughing at Mrs Hinn, I have great respect for her as a human being and mocking is not my style, however it is obvious that christians in this movement ARE yeilding to "another spirit"and it is sad to see other christians strive to defend the ridiculous.
When we read the BIBLE we find Paul telling the believers not to meet and all speak in tongues because of how it would appear to the lost or ungifted, Paul was that concerned about being decent and in order. Christians need to wake up and recognize that the pentecostal movement has the move of God at times and mixed right in it other spirits...iron mixed with clay.
jasoncran
Member
- May 17, 2009
- 38,271
- 185
all the reasons i dont post much on these things.:bigfrowntoo some i would be a very quiet pentacostal.i dont buy it all , but i do know when the holy ghost shows up and operates as my pastor lives the life before.i have never, nor will go to a hinn.copeland et all meeting. dont need to. the church if a true charismatic type should have the same acess to God for the healings and gifts and the wisdom to use them.
i dont like hinn nor copeland but that is another thread.:bigfrown
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i dont like hinn nor copeland but that is another thread.:bigfrown
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A
Alabaster
Guest
It was a short 2 minute space of time where a woman spoke with boldness about getting busy and tell the world about Jesus Christ without fear! You don't know the full context there. You need to exercise mercy, for fear of being judged. YouTube videos like that are put together to make certain Christians look like idiots---by taking them out of context.
If Jesus was there in person, he'd have had that kind of boldness and He'd be telling us all that we need a stick of dynamite power up our butts too! The time is short!
Order, yes, but we need the boldness of Christ that can only come from the power of the Holy Spirit.
Stop pointing fingers. Jesus warns us of judging with a critical spirit.
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- Jun 21, 2009
- 10,783
- 414
My greetings to those who share at the table of our Lord and Almighty God!
I do so love our ability to continue together as we grow in the Lord. Let us be clear here though. None have matured to the stature of the mark that is set for us -- and each one has room to grow. We are at His Table. Where two or three of us gather, there also gathers our/my/your Lord. I would like to enter this conversation with the joined request that the One upon whom we depend come and sit with us here, in thread --as we continue to share what He has provided to us. "My sheep know my voice," and it is my hope that united here we can listen to hear Him whom we love.
There are a couple things that I may want to say later, but the blessing over our meal and request that we are able, not by might nor stength but by His Spirit able --> to accomplish His will come first.
Amen, and pass the peas (lol). I really do love this forum. It's a growing affection that we share.
~Little brother, Sparrow
I do so love our ability to continue together as we grow in the Lord. Let us be clear here though. None have matured to the stature of the mark that is set for us -- and each one has room to grow. We are at His Table. Where two or three of us gather, there also gathers our/my/your Lord. I would like to enter this conversation with the joined request that the One upon whom we depend come and sit with us here, in thread --as we continue to share what He has provided to us. "My sheep know my voice," and it is my hope that united here we can listen to hear Him whom we love.
There are a couple things that I may want to say later, but the blessing over our meal and request that we are able, not by might nor stength but by His Spirit able --> to accomplish His will come first.
Amen, and pass the peas (lol). I really do love this forum. It's a growing affection that we share.
~Little brother, Sparrow
- Thread starter
- #58
My original statement was meant to be a premise,a postulate,it was an idea formed by years of observation of the pentecostal movement and a knowledge of the bible and how God moves, and also a knowledge of how satan can move. What I was hoping for was some honest feedback to see how many other christians have noticed some of this and their thoughts on the subject. A lot of what I got was condescending judgmental lectures against myself for even looking into this area. I was not a little surprised because we are instructed from the word of God to judge these things.
Anyway, I did receive a couple of helpful comments. My premise is that when the pentecostal movement first started that it was a mixture of christians actually receiving the Spirit of God and of other christians who actually received other spirits, the possible reason could be that the former were truly seeking God and the latter were seeking an experience. Also I believe that this movement has always had this "iron mixed with clay" and it has become so acceptable that when the clay is blaringly obvious christians are afriad to point it out for fear it may be iron. Such fear is because of a lack of knowledge of the bible and God,to know the bible and to know God is to know that some of what is demonstrated today is not of God but of a different spirit. A Baptist fellow named Justin Peters has exposed some of what has been happening in the pentecostal movement. Now folks, I am not against the pentecostal movement, only the deception that has been part of it.
Anyway, I did receive a couple of helpful comments. My premise is that when the pentecostal movement first started that it was a mixture of christians actually receiving the Spirit of God and of other christians who actually received other spirits, the possible reason could be that the former were truly seeking God and the latter were seeking an experience. Also I believe that this movement has always had this "iron mixed with clay" and it has become so acceptable that when the clay is blaringly obvious christians are afriad to point it out for fear it may be iron. Such fear is because of a lack of knowledge of the bible and God,to know the bible and to know God is to know that some of what is demonstrated today is not of God but of a different spirit. A Baptist fellow named Justin Peters has exposed some of what has been happening in the pentecostal movement. Now folks, I am not against the pentecostal movement, only the deception that has been part of it.
- Thread starter
- #59
OK,now you need to stop judging me(and you are)and actually study what happened and the scriptures...judge the premise...NOT ME!
theLords
Member
- Sep 12, 2010
- 4,720
- 1
all the reasons i dont post much on these things.:bigfrowntoo some i would be a very quiet pentacostal.i dont buy it all , but i do know when the holy ghost shows up and operates as my pastor lives the life before.i have never, nor will go to a hinn.copeland et all meeting. dont need to. the church if a true charismatic type should have the same acess to God for the healings and gifts and the wisdom to use them.
i dont like hinn nor copeland but that is another thread.:bigfrown
I agree Jason. Things seem to have gotten blown out of proportion very quickly in this thread. Too much condemnation has been passed around due to miscommunication.
It's a difficult position to lovingly discern something without being judgmental.
And as far as that one comment, about the Holy Spirit and body part, what was truly said was something along the lines of:
"You all need a Holy Spirit enema, up your rear ends..."
that greatly differs from:
"You need the Holy Spirit up your butt."
Look at how quickly this statement was taken out of context. I think that Mrs. Hinn chose her words very poorly, but I understand what she is saying even though I think it was said in poor taste.
This is why it is so important not to judge so quickly. This misconstruing of words is the absolute perfect example. :yes