sojourner4Christ
Member
I replied specifically to those comments of yours that I quoted. What is the question presently on the table?
BTW, Romans 13 is a beautiful .passage describing the absolute sovereignty of Godly authority!
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The Police Officer
- Thread starter iLOVE
- Start date
BTW, Romans 13 is a beautiful .passage describing the absolute sovereignty of Godly authority!
Northman
Member
What was this for?
K
Kenny_ms
Guest
That sums up the problem with the present worldly authority, and why believers are not to partake of it.
But we have to partake of it.
Sure the system is of the world but that doesn't mean God doesn't have control of the laws. Not sure if it was this thread where I mentioned it or not but I think towards the latter days, the laws will be allowed to get ridiculous but in general I still feel God has his hands on the laws of the land. Even if the society is mostly heathen and you need to note, it's not all heathen, Christians are part of that society, but even if the governing powers did rule, God has complete control of the laws and when I look at the laws, it makes perfect sense the way they are set up.
God allows sin within the Governmental law but it seems if our sin is going to adversely affect someone else, it's not allowed. Man Has to be allowed to sin within reason and it's not because, IMO anyway, the heathen set the laws up to allow sin, it's because God did.. For instance, killing is not allowed, stealing is not allowed, fornication is allowed, taking the Lords name in vane is allowed, and yes there may be laws against fornication/taking the Lords name in vane in some states but they are likely over looked. To me anyway, just looking at how the Government laws are set up, I have no problem at all believing God has a hand in it or for that matter complete control. Heathen or not, he is powerful enough to have complete control.
But we have to partake of it.
Sure the system is of the world but that doesn't mean God doesn't have control of the laws. Not sure if it was this thread where I mentioned it or not but I think towards the latter days, the laws will be allowed to get ridiculous but in general I still feel God has his hands on the laws of the land. Even if the society is mostly heathen and you need to note, it's not all heathen, Christians are part of that society, but even if the governing powers did rule, God has complete control of the laws and when I look at the laws, it makes perfect sense the way they are set up.
God allows sin within the Governmental law but it seems if our sin is going to adversely affect someone else, it's not allowed. Man Has to be allowed to sin within reason and it's not because, IMO anyway, the heathen set the laws up to allow sin, it's because God did.. For instance, killing is not allowed, stealing is not allowed, fornication is allowed, taking the Lords name in vane is allowed, and yes there may be laws against fornication/taking the Lords name in vane in some states but they are likely over looked. To me anyway, just looking at how the Government laws are set up, I have no problem at all believing God has a hand in it or for that matter complete control. Heathen or not, he is powerful enough to have complete control.
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K
Kenny_ms
Guest
I replied specifically to those comments of yours that I quoted. What is the question presently on the table?
I guess you replied in a way you considered specific.
For starters, address the bold. Address what I said in detail and not just an overall opinion of why you feel I'm wrong....please.
That is the first glitch in your interpretation. No, it does not answer who the higher "powers" (plural) are, it answers who the higher "power" (singular) is. Best I can tell, that still leaves it open for the "powers" to be defined as the governments. Also "there is no power but of God", as I see it, means that power "of God" is the government. .
I guess you replied in a way you considered specific.
For starters, address the bold. Address what I said in detail and not just an overall opinion of why you feel I'm wrong....please.
That is the first glitch in your interpretation. No, it does not answer who the higher "powers" (plural) are, it answers who the higher "power" (singular) is. Best I can tell, that still leaves it open for the "powers" to be defined as the governments. Also "there is no power but of God", as I see it, means that power "of God" is the government. .
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sojourner4Christ
Member
.
Thanks for clarifying your post.
If we want to walk in truth, then we need to stick with scripture. Our opinions count for nothing.
.
Thanks for clarifying your post.
If we want to walk in truth, then we need to stick with scripture. Our opinions count for nothing.
Why do you see it that way? i.e. What scripture supports your opinion?
.
K
Kenny_ms
Guest
That IS the scripture and why I see it that way is because that's the way it's written and I think it's as reasonable for me to understand it as I do as it is to understand 1+1 to be 2. But if you think I'm wrong, say why you think that.
And I used the KJV so there is no mistake.
If you are going to change a long accepted meaning to the Bible, and again, I'm not saying you are wrong as we've been taught wrong meanings before and just accepted them, but to refute it, it's a must to study every detail of how the verse is written.
And I used the KJV so there is no mistake.
If you are going to change a long accepted meaning to the Bible, and again, I'm not saying you are wrong as we've been taught wrong meanings before and just accepted them, but to refute it, it's a must to study every detail of how the verse is written.
2 points from the TOS : Admin
not completely directed at any one member...
2.2: Discussions of conspiracy theories often lead to slander and hostile debate. Therefore, discussion of conspiracy theories is prohibited.
2.4: Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.
not completely directed at any one member...
2.2: Discussions of conspiracy theories often lead to slander and hostile debate. Therefore, discussion of conspiracy theories is prohibited.
2.4: Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.
then he knows the truth. what I said is indeed true. I was with a bunch of guys that were at gitmo. your nephew is an mp or marine?
sojourner4Christ
Member
.
However, most folks can’t get past their worldly conditioning. Anything and everything they do not understand, gets rejected out-of-hand and dumped into the conditioned “conspiracy“ bin, thereby pre-empting any further serious discussion of the issue, effectively shutting it down.
That’s why evangelical Christianity is presently in freefall. That’s why, re: the OP, there’s a de facto police state in USA Inc. today, and degenerating daily. That’s why the majority reading this are, on average, $14,000 in debt bondage and facing foreclosure and worse, in violation of the scriptural imperative to not borrow, etc. etc.
No one wants to hear that striking hands with heathen, entering into contracts with the ungodly, is a violation of scripture. Now I’ve already posted quite a bit a scripture on this, in response to your posting of one. verse. My post #53, with 15 scriptural references, is the scriptural rebuttal to the opinion that all. “government,” including ungodly authority, is ordained of God and thus should be obeyed.
Perhaps a scriptural discussion of why. God allows ungodly authority to exist will help clarify.
So why does God “allow” ungodly “governments?” What is the purpose of man's law? It is God's rod of correction. God uses man's law to chasten his people. God uses heathens to chasten his people.
We are to place ourselves under God’s jurisdiction, living in God’s kingdom. And we're not going to be perfect, we may fall and do wrong, but we are to check everything that we're doing. And if we do something that's against God's word, we repent immediately to renew our mind. That's how we renew our mind, by repenting to the King and saying, "I'm sorry. I did not want to do that. It's a habit, it's the way that I learned in the world. Help break me of that." And he does help us if our heart is truly after him. And if you don't repent, he has the natural man right there as a rod of correction for you, and that's what man's codes, rules and regulations are all about.
If we be without chastisement, we would not be his sons. But he loves us, so God uses a rod of correction to wake the sleeping disciple and get him back on course.
Proverbs 22:15, "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."
Proverbs 23:13, "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die."
We’re talking about the civil idolatry of man's law. As we know, everything the Lord allows to exist is for his purposes. So why does man's law exist? Why do people look to it for truth? It's simply because they've turned their backs on the Lord and his Law.
In the plan of God, the humanist has always been God's rod to wake the sleeping disciple and get him back on course. If man is the center of 'the world,' and he created all these legal personalities, then the police power is God's rod of correction to get you out of the world, to make things a hotbed of coals to where it is uncomfortable for you to stay there re: the OP. So, if you're going to come out of the world, then you shed, what is called, all those legal personalities that the world has placed upon you, and you do not answer to them anymore, because your mind has been renewed in the mind of Christ (Ephesians 4:23, Colossians 3:10).
An officer does need a warrant in law to do what he is doing. However, if you're in the wrong place, doing the wrong thing, and partaking of the unclean things, then that man (who you say is ungodly, doing ungodly things against you) is actually God's rod of correction to drive you back to where you should be. If you're not chastened by our Father, then you're a bastard, meaning you're a son of the world, and you will not share the privileges of God's children.
Hebrews 12:8, "But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons."
Job 5:17, "Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:"
Again, what is the purpose of man's law i.e. ungodly authority? It is God's rod of correction. God uses man's law to chasten his people. God uses heathens to chasten his people.
Psalms 125:3, "For the rod of the wicked shall not rest upon the lot of the righteous; lest the righteous put forth their hands unto iniquity."
Psalms 106:39-48, "Thus were they defiled with their own works, and went a whoring with their own inventions. Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance. And he gave them into the hand of the heathen; and they that hated them ruled over them. Their enemies also oppressed them, and they were brought into subjection under their hand. Many times did he deliver them; but they provoked him with their counsel, and were brought low for their iniquity. Nevertheless he regarded their affliction, when he heard their cry: And he remembered for them his covenant, and repented according to the multitude of his mercies. He made them also to be pitied of all those that carried them captives. Save us, O LORD our God, and gather us from among the heathen, to give thanks unto thy holy name, and to triumph in thy praise. Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting: and let all the people say, Amen. Praise ye the LORD."
Ezekiel 31:11, "I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness."
Ezekiel 39:27-28, "When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations; Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen..."
So, even though you may be righteous and you're following his ways, as soon as you put your hands into iniquity, "the rod of the wicked" (that's his rod) will be there to drive you back to him.
2 Samuel 7:14, "I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son. And when he happens to transgress, then will I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the sons of men:"
Even though we're his son, if we walk away from his Law, he will use "the rod of men" to chasten us and drive us back to him. Gentile and Pagan armies may be God's armies. For example, the Chaldeans who destroyed Zion are called "his army" (Joel 2:11); the Assyrians are called "the rod of mine anger" (Isaiah 10:5); and the Medes under Cyrus are termed God's "sanctified ones" and "mighty ones" for his anger (Isaiah 13:3, 17). Likewise, Jacob (i.e. the nation of Israel) is the Lord's "battle ax" and "weapons of war" that he uses to chastise other nations (Jeremiah 51:20).
Proverbs 22:15, "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."
It is foolish to partake of the ways of the world, and "the rod of correction" will drive that from us. What's interesting is that scripture shows us how God will use the ungodly as a rod of correction, but the natural man doesn't realize that they're there for God’s purpose. Isaiah 10:5-15 shows that even though God will use the king of Assyria to drive God’s people back to him, the king doesn't know it. He boasts about how powerful he is and attributes everything to himself, but he's actually God's rod of correction, just like all governments are.
Jeremiah 5:3, "O LORD, are not thine eyes upon the truth? thou hast stricken them, but they have not grieved; thou hast consumed them, but they have refused to receive correction: they have made their faces harder than a rock; they have refused to return."
So, we see his rod of correction is to return us to him. And we also see from this passage that there are many who will not be driven back to him by it. But don't despise his chastening.
Proverbs 3:11-12, "My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction: For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth."
It is important to understand that the purpose of God allowing "Caesar" (i.e. ungodly government) to be in power is to test and prove his children, to see if they will keep the Laws of God or the laws of the heathen (Judges 2:21; 3:4).
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? (Romans 6:16)
You mixed the truth with your opinion to come up with a blend of the two.
That’s scripture.
That’s not scripture; that’s your opinion.
You do seem to understand there are counterfeit versions of the truth out there. There are also counterfeit forms of government.
I’m not going to. We know the majority has always been wrong. In fact, the majority is hell bound; it’s scripture (Mat. 7:13).
Yep. Tons of them. Took me a long time to accept some of what the Lord was revealing to me.
I agree! And in context.
However, most folks can’t get past their worldly conditioning. Anything and everything they do not understand, gets rejected out-of-hand and dumped into the conditioned “conspiracy“ bin, thereby pre-empting any further serious discussion of the issue, effectively shutting it down.
That’s why evangelical Christianity is presently in freefall. That’s why, re: the OP, there’s a de facto police state in USA Inc. today, and degenerating daily. That’s why the majority reading this are, on average, $14,000 in debt bondage and facing foreclosure and worse, in violation of the scriptural imperative to not borrow, etc. etc.
No one wants to hear that striking hands with heathen, entering into contracts with the ungodly, is a violation of scripture. Now I’ve already posted quite a bit a scripture on this, in response to your posting of one. verse. My post #53, with 15 scriptural references, is the scriptural rebuttal to the opinion that all. “government,” including ungodly authority, is ordained of God and thus should be obeyed.
Perhaps a scriptural discussion of why. God allows ungodly authority to exist will help clarify.
So why does God “allow” ungodly “governments?” What is the purpose of man's law? It is God's rod of correction. God uses man's law to chasten his people. God uses heathens to chasten his people.
We are to place ourselves under God’s jurisdiction, living in God’s kingdom. And we're not going to be perfect, we may fall and do wrong, but we are to check everything that we're doing. And if we do something that's against God's word, we repent immediately to renew our mind. That's how we renew our mind, by repenting to the King and saying, "I'm sorry. I did not want to do that. It's a habit, it's the way that I learned in the world. Help break me of that." And he does help us if our heart is truly after him. And if you don't repent, he has the natural man right there as a rod of correction for you, and that's what man's codes, rules and regulations are all about.
If we be without chastisement, we would not be his sons. But he loves us, so God uses a rod of correction to wake the sleeping disciple and get him back on course.
Proverbs 22:15, "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."
Proverbs 23:13, "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die."
We’re talking about the civil idolatry of man's law. As we know, everything the Lord allows to exist is for his purposes. So why does man's law exist? Why do people look to it for truth? It's simply because they've turned their backs on the Lord and his Law.
In the plan of God, the humanist has always been God's rod to wake the sleeping disciple and get him back on course. If man is the center of 'the world,' and he created all these legal personalities, then the police power is God's rod of correction to get you out of the world, to make things a hotbed of coals to where it is uncomfortable for you to stay there re: the OP. So, if you're going to come out of the world, then you shed, what is called, all those legal personalities that the world has placed upon you, and you do not answer to them anymore, because your mind has been renewed in the mind of Christ (Ephesians 4:23, Colossians 3:10).
An officer does need a warrant in law to do what he is doing. However, if you're in the wrong place, doing the wrong thing, and partaking of the unclean things, then that man (who you say is ungodly, doing ungodly things against you) is actually God's rod of correction to drive you back to where you should be. If you're not chastened by our Father, then you're a bastard, meaning you're a son of the world, and you will not share the privileges of God's children.
Hebrews 12:8, "But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons."
Job 5:17, "Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:"
Again, what is the purpose of man's law i.e. ungodly authority? It is God's rod of correction. God uses man's law to chasten his people. God uses heathens to chasten his people.
Psalms 125:3, "For the rod of the wicked shall not rest upon the lot of the righteous; lest the righteous put forth their hands unto iniquity."
Psalms 106:39-48, "Thus were they defiled with their own works, and went a whoring with their own inventions. Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance. And he gave them into the hand of the heathen; and they that hated them ruled over them. Their enemies also oppressed them, and they were brought into subjection under their hand. Many times did he deliver them; but they provoked him with their counsel, and were brought low for their iniquity. Nevertheless he regarded their affliction, when he heard their cry: And he remembered for them his covenant, and repented according to the multitude of his mercies. He made them also to be pitied of all those that carried them captives. Save us, O LORD our God, and gather us from among the heathen, to give thanks unto thy holy name, and to triumph in thy praise. Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting: and let all the people say, Amen. Praise ye the LORD."
Ezekiel 31:11, "I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness."
Ezekiel 39:27-28, "When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations; Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen..."
So, even though you may be righteous and you're following his ways, as soon as you put your hands into iniquity, "the rod of the wicked" (that's his rod) will be there to drive you back to him.
2 Samuel 7:14, "I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son. And when he happens to transgress, then will I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the sons of men:"
Even though we're his son, if we walk away from his Law, he will use "the rod of men" to chasten us and drive us back to him. Gentile and Pagan armies may be God's armies. For example, the Chaldeans who destroyed Zion are called "his army" (Joel 2:11); the Assyrians are called "the rod of mine anger" (Isaiah 10:5); and the Medes under Cyrus are termed God's "sanctified ones" and "mighty ones" for his anger (Isaiah 13:3, 17). Likewise, Jacob (i.e. the nation of Israel) is the Lord's "battle ax" and "weapons of war" that he uses to chastise other nations (Jeremiah 51:20).
Proverbs 22:15, "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."
It is foolish to partake of the ways of the world, and "the rod of correction" will drive that from us. What's interesting is that scripture shows us how God will use the ungodly as a rod of correction, but the natural man doesn't realize that they're there for God’s purpose. Isaiah 10:5-15 shows that even though God will use the king of Assyria to drive God’s people back to him, the king doesn't know it. He boasts about how powerful he is and attributes everything to himself, but he's actually God's rod of correction, just like all governments are.
Jeremiah 5:3, "O LORD, are not thine eyes upon the truth? thou hast stricken them, but they have not grieved; thou hast consumed them, but they have refused to receive correction: they have made their faces harder than a rock; they have refused to return."
So, we see his rod of correction is to return us to him. And we also see from this passage that there are many who will not be driven back to him by it. But don't despise his chastening.
Proverbs 3:11-12, "My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction: For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth."
It is important to understand that the purpose of God allowing "Caesar" (i.e. ungodly government) to be in power is to test and prove his children, to see if they will keep the Laws of God or the laws of the heathen (Judges 2:21; 3:4).
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? (Romans 6:16)
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I am not sure it was one of those goofy things. He was a Marine but then he wasn't then he was... stuff i dont understand .. He retired a major
K
Kenny_ms
Guest
You mixed the truth with your opinion to come up with a blend of the two.
No sir, I gave my interpretation of the exact verse, just as you did several times, yet you call mine opinion and yours truth?
You can write all day long but until you explain just the first hole I find in your "opinion" of what it all means, we'll get nowhere. Why is what I say, not so?
Calling it a simple blend of truth and opinion does not address it.
No sir, I gave my interpretation of the exact verse, just as you did several times, yet you call mine opinion and yours truth?
You can write all day long but until you explain just the first hole I find in your "opinion" of what it all means, we'll get nowhere. Why is what I say, not so?
Calling it a simple blend of truth and opinion does not address it.
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sojourner4Christ
Member
Thanks, Kenny_ms. Any time you'd like to discuss the relevant scriptures I posted, I'd be honored to participate.
K
Kenny_ms
Guest
That's what I thought.
See? we were discussing the relevant scriptures.
See? we were discussing the relevant scriptures.
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sojourner4Christ
Member
.
From the OP:
.
From the OP:
In short, because the police power is not following God’s Law.
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Obadiah
Member
Since not all Africans are black and most blacks in America were born here, not in Africa, I assume you are talking about black Americans vs white Americans. If they see race differently, I think it's because they are either white or black. I don't think it's because they are Christians that they see it differently. I think it has more to do with the communities they were raised in and the type of life they grew up with as their "normal". Same thing happens between rich and poor, people of the same race but from different cultures, etc.
ah an officer, ok so he went enlisted and commissioned under the navy as a marine officer, then finished as such.
Obadiah
Member
And the citizens ARE???
