The Preterist Position - I have a Question

[parousia70]

Aww heck... who am I trying to kid? I can't wait for your answer.....

Without questiuon, Obdiah is warning of the "soon coming" judgment against Edom.
Obadiah 1-9 parallels Jeremiah 49:7-22 and the passage in Jeremiah dates from the fourth year of the reign of Jehoiakim (604 B.C.)
1. Edom's destruction began with the Babylonian invasion under
Nebuchadnezzar (ca. 600 B.C.)
2. It continued into the fourth century B.C. with the invasion of
the Arabs known as the Nabataeans, forcing them to a region
south of Judah
3. In the second century B.C., the Maccabees brought them under
subjection when Judas Maccabeus slew twenty thousand of them
4. John Hyrcanus (134-104 B.C.) forced the remnant to accept
circumcision and the Law

So, Let’s “tally the score.â€Â

* Edom was overthrown as a nation.
* The nation and city have become a desolation, as Ezekiel 25:13; Ezekiel 35:4,7 and Isaiah 34:11-13 predicted.
* It has never been populated again as Jeremiah 49:18 predicted.
* It has had bloody history as Ezekiel 25:13 and 35:6,8 predicted.
* Edom became populated with wild animals and birds (instead of people) as Isaiah 34:11, 13-15 predicted.

So...That "Day of the Lord" event came to pass NEAR after the Prophet's warning, exactly as prophesied.

Next?

 

[turnorburn]

The Preterits Position - I have a Question, O.k. have we answered your question? Where is the OP?
Besides I need know what a Preterits is? :naughty

turnorburn

 

[parousia70]

Besides I need know what a Preterits is? :naughty

turnorburn

Preterist = Christian who affirms scripture's 1st century application of eschatological passages.

Indeed, ALL Christians are preterist, we only vary by degree.

 

[Osgiliath]

[quote:3a836mpj]Originally posted by parousia70
Answer my question first.
C'mon Os, I have been more than fair responding to your queries, throw me a bone here.
what do YOU think?
Day of the Lord = one time event at the end of time or, a Biblical term used to describe any number of judgment events that have taken place throughout history?

Tell me your position FIRST, then we'll debate the minutia

Aww heck... who am I trying to kid? I can't wait for your answer.....[/quote:3a836mpj]

I was getting to it; calm down. I do have other things to do......... on occasion :D. It is a pointless question anyway? You already know my answer. When it comes to "the day of the Lord", I believe the eschatology of both the Old and New Testaments converge. Even if a case can be made for the occurrence of a double, archetypal, or partial fulfillment of apocalyptic expressions, if ALL criteria is not met within the given prophecy, the "day of the Lord" must be understood to be a future event.

Isaiah 2:11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.

Now I must sleep, and then go to work tomorrow - make good money/five dollars a day.......
made any more I might move away ay hay hay ay ay. I'll be back, this is getting good. To be continued.

BTW, read your reply in the Preterist Challenge thread. Doesn't cut it. Smoke & mirrors. Go back to the opening post; you're drifting .

 

[parousia70]

When it comes to "the day of the Lord", if ALL criteria is not met within the given prophecy, the "day of the Lord" must be understood to be a future event.

Yet you don't consider the "When" to be part of the criteria....

Now I must sleep, and then go to work tomorrow - make good money/five dollars a day.......
made any more I might move away ay hay hay ay ay.

It's true what they say....We are everywhere

 

[Osgiliath]

OK; where were we?

Originally posted by parousia70
It's true what they say....We are everywhere

Indeed. That's a scary thought, huh?

Originally posted by parousia70
Without questiuon, Obdiah is warning of the "soon coming" judgment against Edom.
Obadiah 1-9 parallels Jeremiah 49:7-22 and the passage in Jeremiah dates from the fourth year of the reign of Jehoiakim (604 B.C.)
1. Edom's destruction began with the Babylonian invasion under
Nebuchadnezzar (ca. 600 B.C.)
2. It continued into the fourth century B.C. with the invasion of
the Arabs known as the Nabataeans, forcing them to a region
south of Judah
3. In the second century B.C., the Maccabees brought them under
subjection when Judas Maccabeus slew twenty thousand of them
4. John Hyrcanus (134-104 B.C.) forced the remnant to accept
circumcision and the Law

So, Let’s “tally the score.â€Â

* Edom was overthrown as a nation.
* The nation and city have become a desolation, as Ezekiel 25:13; Ezekiel 35:4,7 and Isaiah 34:11-13 predicted.
* It has never been populated again as Jeremiah 49:18 predicted.
* It has had bloody history as Ezekiel 25:13 and 35:6,8 predicted.
* Edom became populated with wild animals and birds (instead of people) as Isaiah 34:11, 13-15 predicted.

Here we go again......more presumptions painted with a broad brush. Convenient hypothesis, but it is not accurate. How do you account for verse 1:18:

Obadiah 1:18 "And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it."

It is clear that the house of Jacob would/will utterly destroy the Edomites, to a point that there would be none remaining of the house of Esau (Edom). There is a difference between all of the "remaining" (there should not be ANY remaining) inhabitants of Edom being forcibly converted to Judaism, and "there shall not be ANY remaining of the house of Esau". If fact, Herod the Great was an Edomite and the Herodian Dynasty took over in 37 BC. So with so many "remaining" of the house of Esau, including a dynasty led by an Edomite, how has Obadiah 1:18 been fulfilled? Once again, broad generalizations without acknowledging the specifics. When God says "there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau", we have no choice but to believe what He says.

Originally posted by parousia70
Yet you don't consider the "When" to be part of the criteria....

Of course I do; and that is part of the reason we are analyzing this; isn't it? We know the prophecy in Obadiah concerning the day of the Lord was not fulfilled with the invasion of the Babylonians, or the infiltration of the Nabataeans, because Edom was still alive and well in the second century. But even if all of the Edomites were wiped off the face of the earth following the Maccabean Revolt and the conquests of Hyrcanus (which they were NOT - as shown above), those events ranged from 450 to over 500 years from when the prophecy was given. I would hardly consider that amount of time "near", or "at hand" (by your own definition). Even if the subjugation of Edomites in the second century BC was the day of the Lord prophesied in Obadiah (and it certainly WAS NOT), your "time" arguments (i.e. near, shortly, at hand) become meaningless; because by your own explanation, near and at hand are in fact NOT near and at hand, they are 500 years in the future. Anyway you slice it, your theory collapses on all fronts.

NEXT......

 

[parousia70]

Before we continue, Is your contentiontion that Hyperbole is not used in scripture?