The Primacy of Peter

[jaybo]

And what are Jaybo's opinions, if not those of a mere man?

And what are your opinions, if not those of a mere man? I base my thoughts on God's word, not the teachings of Catholic priests. In other words, I believe God is true and every man a liar.

Romans 3:4, "Absolutely not! Let God be proven true, and every human being shown up as a liar, just as it is written: “so that you will be justified in your words and will prevail when you are judged.” NET

"God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged." KJV

 

[jaybo]

For someone who believes in scripture alone you post a lot of opinions and add to scripture. Paul never called Peter deeply flawed. That is your own invention.

You keep going on about apostles to gentiles and Jews, but as I showed Paul went to both Jews and gentiles, and Peter went to both Jews and gentiles. But whatever the truth of that it is irrelevant to this topic. Whter they went to Jews of gentiles is a matter of mission not leadership.

I showed from many scriptures that Peter was appointed leader of the apostles by Jesus and he was accepted as leader by others. You just keep ignoring them.

In the next post I will go more deeply into one of them.

Oh, I can't wait! (Sarcastic).

Paul never called Peter deeply flawed? Galatians 2:11-14, "But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he had clearly done wrong. Until certain people came from James, he had been eating with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he stopped doing this and separated himself because he was afraid of those who were pro-circumcision. And the rest of the Jews also joined with him in this hypocrisy, so that even Barnabas was led astray with them by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not behaving consistently with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “If you, although you are a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you try to force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”

There are multiple criticisms of Peter: a) he had clearly done wrong; b) he was afraid of those who were pro-circumcision, c) he was hypocritical, and d) he was not behaving consistently with the truth of the gospel. If you don't consider that Paul considered Peter deeply flawed, that is your Catholic misinterpretation of the Bible.

a) done wrong, b) was afraid of others' criticism, c) hypocritical, and d) not behaving according to the gospel. In other words, he was deeply flawed.

 

[Niblo]

In other words, I believe God is true and every man a liar.

Your blanket condemnation of all other folk reminds me of a tale I heard a long while ago:

One day, a traveller was walking from Leeds to York. As he was approaching the city, he noticed a farmer tending the ground beside the road. He greeted the farmer, and said: ‘Do you mind if I ask you a question?’

“Fire away!’ replied the farmer.

‘I’m moving to York, from Leeds’ said the traveller, ‘and I was wondering if you could tell me what sort of people I’ll find there?

‘Tell me,’ said the farmer, ‘what sort of folk live in Leeds?’

‘Dreadful,’ replied the traveller. ‘To be honest, I am glad to be away from the place. The city is full of hypocrites and liars; every last one. Completely untrustworthy, and altogether horrible!’

‘I’m very sorry to tell you,’ said the farmer, ‘but you will find that the folk of York are equally bad.’

The traveller hung his head despondently, and walked on.


A few months later, another traveller was journeying down the same road. He also came upon the farmer.

‘I’ve decided to up-stick and move from Leeds to York,’ said the traveller. ‘Any idea what sort of folk live there?’

‘Indeed I do,’ replied the farmer. ‘But first, tell me of the folk in Leeds.’

‘Ahh,’ said the traveller. ‘Wonderful people! Trustworthy, reliable and honest. They don’t always get things right, for sure; but they try hard, and are very supportive of each other. I shall miss them greatly.’

‘Put your mind at rest!’ said the farmer. ‘You will very quickly find that the folk of York are exactly the same.’

 

[jaybo]

Your blanket condemnation of all other folk reminds me of a tale I heard a long while ago:

One day, a traveller was walking from Leeds to York. As he was approaching the city, he noticed a farmer tending the ground beside the road. He greeted the farmer, and said: ‘Do you mind if I ask you a question?’

“Fire away!’ replied the farmer.

‘I’m moving to York, from Leeds’ said the traveller, ‘and I was wondering if you could tell me what sort of people I’ll find there?

‘Tell me,’ said the farmer, ‘what sort of folk live in Leeds?’

‘Dreadful,’ replied the traveller. ‘To be honest, I am glad to be away from the place. The city is full of hypocrites and liars; every last one. Completely untrustworthy, and altogether horrible!’

‘I’m very sorry to tell you,’ said the farmer, ‘but you will find that the folk of York are equally bad.’

The traveller hung his head despondently, and walked on.


A few months later, another traveller was journeying down the same road. He also came upon the farmer.

‘I’ve decided to up-stick and move from Leeds to York,’ said the traveller. ‘Any idea what sort of folk live there?’

‘Indeed I do,’ replied the farmer. ‘But first, tell me of the folk in Leeds.’

‘Ahh,’ said the traveller. ‘Wonderful people! Trustworthy, reliable and honest. They don’t always get things right, for sure; but they try hard, and are very supportive of each other. I shall miss them greatly.’

‘Put your mind at rest!’ said the farmer. ‘You will very quickly find that the folk of York are exactly the same.’

Why not take it up with God? Romans 3:4, "God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged." KJV or "Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.” NIV

BTW, your story is unScriptural and irrelevant.

 

[Mungo]

Correct. I believe the Bible, not your personal opinions. Sola scriptura!

And I take no notice of your personal opinons. A mere man's opinons.

 

[Mungo]

And what are your opinions, if not those of a mere man? I base my thoughts on God's word, not the teachings of Catholic priests. In other words, I believe God is true and every man a liar.

Romans 3:4, "Absolutely not! Let God be proven true, and every human being shown up as a liar, just as it is written: “so that you will be justified in your words and will prevail when you are judged.” NET

"God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged." KJV

You base your opinions on your personal and fallible interpretation of God's word.

 

[Mungo]

Oh, I can't wait! (Sarcastic).

Paul never called Peter deeply flawed? Galatians 2:11-14, "But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he had clearly done wrong. Until certain people came from James, he had been eating with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he stopped doing this and separated himself because he was afraid of those who were pro-circumcision. And the rest of the Jews also joined with him in this hypocrisy, so that even Barnabas was led astray with them by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not behaving consistently with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “If you, although you are a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you try to force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”

There are multiple criticisms of Peter: a) he had clearly done wrong; b) he was afraid of those who were pro-circumcision, c) he was hypocritical, and d) he was not behaving consistently with the truth of the gospel. If you don't consider that Paul considered Peter deeply flawed, that is your Catholic misinterpretation of the Bible.

a) done wrong, b) was afraid of others' criticism, c) hypocritical, and d) not behaving according to the gospel. In other words, he was deeply flawed.

But he didn't call Peter deeply flawed. That just your invention. A mere man's opinion.

 

[jaybo]

And I take no notice of your personal opinons. A mere man's opinons.

Actually, you do take notice of my personal opinions. You refute them with Catholic (erroneous) thoughts, which I judge to be primarily unScriptural and invariably wrong. And what's with the sexism? Aren't women forbidden to be priests?

 

[Mungo]

Thank you Niblo.
Sadly jaybo will take no notice and dismiss them as opinions of mere men.

And as I predicted jaybo ignored my posts ~35, #36.
He doesn't really believe God's word - only those bits that he thinks agree with his opinions.

 

[jaybo]

You base your opinions on your personal and fallible interpretation of God's word.

At least my opinions are based on Scripture, not the teachings of fallible men, from the (unScriptural) Pope on down. Tell me, when did God's word lose primacy in your denomination?

 

[Niblo]

Why not take it up with God? Romans 3:4, "God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged." KJV or "Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.” NIV

BTW, your story is unScriptural and irrelevant.

'God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written...'

Let us assume that every man is indeed a liar; by which is meant that no man's word can be trusted.....not at any time.

Paul was a man. Why then should we trust him?

 

[jaybo]

And as I predicted jaybo ignored my posts ~35, #36.
He doesn't really believe God's word - only those bits that he thinks agree with his opinions.

If you think that I have nothing better to do than reply to every one of your post, you are delusional. I have a life! (do you?)

BTW, I believe the Bible 100%, unlike yourself and the rest of the deluded Catholics. I believe God, you believe your clergy. Hint: they're not God!

 

[Niblo]

And as I predicted jaybo ignored my posts ~35, #36.
He doesn't really believe God's word - only those bits that he thinks agree with his opinions.

He gives that impression, for sure.

 

[jaybo]

'God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written...'

Let us assume that every man is indeed a liar; by which is meant that no man's word can be trusted.....not at any time.

Paul was a man. Why then should we trust him?

Because he was supernaturally chosen directly by Jesus to be an apostle.

Your assumption that "every man is a liar" must include Peter, the rest of the apostles, the Pope -- all Popes -- and the rest of your clergy.

 

[jaybo]

He gives that impression, for sure.

You Catholic Brits stick together, eh? Very telling!

 

[Niblo]

You Catholic Brits stick together, eh? Very telling!

I am a Muslim (former Catholic). I have no doubt at all that Mungo would not hesitate to oppose any statement of mine that contradicts a teaching of the CC...in spite of being fellow Brits. Rest assured, I would have no hesitation in pointing out any error on his part concerning Catholic dogma. Thus far, he has made no such error.

I regret to say this, but the tone of your entire correspondence with Mungo is strongly suggestive of one who simply will not - cannot - permit the truth to stand in the way of a cherished prejudice. Maybe you should grasp the opportunity to learn from one (Mungo) who knows the teachings of the CC better than you do. No one is expecting you to agree with him; after all, you are not a Catholic!

 

[Niblo]

Because he was supernaturally chosen directly by Jesus to be an apostle.

Your assumption that "every man is a liar" must include Peter, the rest of the apostles, the Pope -- all Popes -- and the rest of your clergy.

He claimed to be.....but states that every man is a liar!

I do not assume....and have never stated....that 'every man is a liar'. These are not my words. For sure, we are all capable of lying, but it is not my experience that every person is a corrupt and habitual liar.

 

[jaybo]

I am a Muslim (former Catholic). I have no doubt at all that Mungo would not hesitate to oppose any statement of mine that contradicts a teaching of the CC...in spite of being fellow Brits. Rest assured, I would have no hesitation in pointing out any error on his part concerning Catholic dogma. Thus far, he has made no such error.

I regret to say this, but the tone of your entire correspondence with Mungo is strongly suggestive of one who simply will not - cannot - permit the truth to stand in the way of a cherished prejudice. Maybe you should grasp the opportunity to learn from one (Mungo) who knows the teachings of the CC better than you do. No one is expecting you to agree with him; after all, you are not a Catholic!

Why would I should grasp the opportunity to learn from one (Mungo), with whom I disagree? I have the Bible as my source of truth; Mungo has the Catholic church as her source of truth. Why would I (or anyone else) believe the latter of the former. One is from God, the other is from men.

The tone of your correspondence is strongly suggestive of one who simply will not - cannot - permit the truth to stand in the way of a cherished prejudice.

BTW, what caused you to leave the Catholic church in favor of Islam? Did you see the error of their dogma?

 

[jaybo]

He claimed to be.....but states that every man is a liar!

I do not assume....and have never stated....that 'every man is a liar'. These are not my words. For sure, we are all capable of lying, but it is not my experience that every person is a corrupt and habitual liar.

I agree with you. I don't think that every man is a liar. However, you wrote this...

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written...'

Let us assume that every man is indeed a liar; by which is meant that no man's word can be trusted.....not at any time.

Paul was a man. Why then should we trust him?

... so you are contradicting yourself.

 

[Mungo]

If you think that I have nothing better to do than reply to every one of your post, you are delusional. I have a life! (do you?)

BTW, I believe the Bible 100%, unlike yourself and the rest of the deluded Catholics. I believe God, you believe your clergy. Hint: they're not God!

jaybo,
I believe the Bible 100%. But I don't believe many of your personal interpretation of it.
It seems to me that you avoid many of my posts that demonstrate the truth from the Bible because they contradict your erroneous beliefs.
As I have said before - no Catholic doctrine (properly understood) contradicts Scripture (properly interpreted).

I'm going to leave it here.
I've given you the truth in many posts.
If you don't want to follow them that is your choice.
And the consequences are your responsibility.
I have done my part.