The Rapture is wrong !

[jasoncran]

really so the whole verse is happened. what is the lake of fire to you? is hades that. notice is says the sea, the dead and also hades. where is death? still happening. man don't that quick to be right. I thought I was bad.so the jugdement has happened. he came back? oh satan is where? in hell or on the earth?

 

[JLB]

really so the whole verse is happened. what is the lake of fire to you? is hades that. notice is says the sea, the dead and also hades. where is death? still happening. man don't that quick to be right. I thought I was bad.so the jugdement has happened. he came back? oh satan is where? in hell or on the earth?

Hell is hell where the rich man was burning in torment at the time of Jesus' story.

The lake of fire is the lake of fire that Satan and his angels will be cast into along with hell and death.

The lake of fire is not hell.

As the scriptures teach.


JLB

 

[jasoncran]

really. hell is called hades? why would the bible writers translate sheol to hades knowing that hades is hell?. which means we need to do a study on the differences. the word hades, sheol are nothing like hell. hades from the greek ideas has a place of torment and also a place for the heroes. sheol (which I disagree but I see why) also has a similar idea due to the logic of the closest words to translate

so jesus didn't go to sheol? so Jonah went into hell as well the kjv translate that as hell which was simply the belly of the fish.
Jonah 2 akjv. funny I didn't think you believe in purgatory nor the idea of that we could be taken from hell to life or heaven.

Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish’s belly, 2 and said,
I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord,
and he heard me;
out of the belly of hell cried I,
and thou heardest my voice

 

[Guest]

paul means that we shall not all be dead when he returns. what is sheol? answer that or ignore it and weaken your argument.

you're changing the subject, we're talking about soul sleep. why should i weaken my argument after post#144. ;)

you then have weakening your argument as sheol has no implication of sleeping souls in it but men in torment depending on what level they are at. some if did have the righteous there as a purgatory and also the worst of worst locked in torment for the final judgement. you have failed there.

Ok, now this site makes sense..http://www.letusreason.org/7thad22.htm

When talking about heaven/hell/soul sleep we need to separate the words soul spirit/body. It is the BODY that sleeps and will be resurrected. Now this makes sense. The BODY will be in the grave, but our soul and spirit will be with the Lord and the unrighteous soul and spirit will also be in hell. After judgment day, our BODIES will be resurrected into our souls and spirit which we took with us after we die. Genesis 35:18 And as her soul was departing (for she was dying), she called his name Ben-oni;7 wbut his father called him Benjamin. So whenever you see the word "sleep" in the Bible, it's talking about their BODY, not their soul and spirit.

Now it's all clicking. With that said, I can't wait to see the Lord!!! Soul sleep is false, unless you're only speaking about the BODY. My apologies. Blessings jasoncran.

 

[JohnD]

No such thing as soul sleep.

In death...

Body sleeps (appears to sleep) and decays back into the dust
Spirit goes to be with the Lord in heaven for believers or Sheol for unbelievers
Soul ceases to exist (it is only a buffer between the two realities of body and spirit when they are together)

This is how the Bible describes all three events in death.

 

[Guest]

[MENTION=96720]JohnD[/MENTION] Very interesting. I love it when scripture starts to click. Hey, does scripture say what our spirit will be doing with the Lord between (after death and judgment day?)

 

[Brother Mike]

What JBL said........... We are spirits, Sleep means the body is up pushing daisy's, dead, bought the farm, not moving on earth anymore, has no part of anything under the sun, kaput, history and so on.

Your spirit man does not die, does not sleep, is in a body, in hell, or with the lord.

When Jesus went to raise lazzy out of the tomb, he said....... Lazzy is just sleep'in guys........ (But really meant he had died) sleep is body is dead.

Mike.

 

[JLB]

What JBL said........... We are spirits, Sleep means the body is up pushing daisy's, dead, bought the farm, not moving on earth anymore, has no part of anything under the sun, kaput, history and so on.

Your spirit man does not die, does not sleep, is in a body, in hell, or with the lord.

When Jesus went to raise lazzy out of the tomb, he said....... Lazzy is just sleep'in guys........ (But really meant he had died) sleep is body is dead.

Mike.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-15

JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-15

JLB

Sleep is deceased right? As in the body is not gonna move anymore?

 

[JLB]

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-15

JLB

Sleep is deceased right? As in the body is not gonna move anymore?

Sleep is body deceased, but God brings with Jesus those who sleep to receive their resurrection body at that time.

Those who are alive and remain are transformed into their immortal resurrection bodies.


JLB

 

[Guest]

[MENTION=7377]Brother Mike[/MENTION] & [MENTION=96720]JohnD[/MENTION]

1. Do you think after we die, being with the Lord is instant? Any scripture?
2. Also, does scripture speak about having temporary bodies until resurrection?
3. Does our spirit go to be with the Lord, or does our soul also go too?

Blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

paul means that we shall not all be dead when he returns. what is sheol? answer that or ignore it and weaken your argument.

you're changing the subject, we're talking about soul sleep. why should i weaken my argument after post#144. ;)

you then have weakening your argument as sheol has no implication of sleeping souls in it but men in torment depending on what level they are at. some if did have the righteous there as a purgatory and also the worst of worst locked in torment for the final judgement. you have failed there.

Ok, now this site makes sense..http://www.letusreason.org/7thad22.htm

When talking about heaven/hell/soul sleep we need to separate the words soul spirit/body. It is the BODY that sleeps and will be resurrected. Now this makes sense. The BODY will be in the grave, but our soul and spirit will be with the Lord and the unrighteous soul and spirit will also be in hell. After judgment day, our BODIES will be resurrected into our souls and spirit which we took with us after we die. Genesis 35:18 And as her soul was departing (for she was dying), she called his name Ben-oni;7 wbut his father called him Benjamin. So whenever you see the word "sleep" in the Bible, it's talking about their BODY, not their soul and spirit.

Now it's all clicking. With that said, I can't wait to see the Lord!!! Soul sleep is false, unless you're only speaking about the BODY. My apologies. Blessings jasoncran.

yes, I can agree with that. the body is part of the soul but not all of it.

 

[Deborah13]

No such thing as soul sleep.

Your graphic of spirit, soul, and body is exactly how I have tried to explain it.

 

[Brother Mike]

1. Do you think after we die, being with the Lord is instant? Any scripture?
2. Also, does scripture speak about having temporary bodies until resurrection?
3. Does our spirit go to be with the Lord, or does our soul also go too?

Paul said he believed even to the saving of our soul or our minds. The brain is just an organ that connects to our soul, it's pretty fascinating. To die is to be with the Lord, that is a scripture and with the Lord your the same as you were when you left down here. I don't know about those "Temporal bodies" folks have in heaven but from accounts everyone seems recognizable when you get there. I suspect the "New Body" will remove many limitations since Earth is Physical and spirits are in heaven. The spirit man is also a body so everything is in tact, not sure what it would look like to use though..

Mike.

 

[Deborah13]

1. Do you think after we die, being with the Lord is instant? Any scripture?
2. Also, does scripture speak about having temporary bodies until resurrection?
3. Does our spirit go to be with the Lord, or does our soul also go too?

Paul said he believed even to the saving of our soul or our minds. The brain is just an organ that connects to our soul, it's pretty fascinating. To die is to be with the Lord, that is a scripture and with the Lord your the same as you were when you left down here. I don't know about those "Temporal bodies" folks have in heaven but from accounts everyone seems recognizable when you get there. I suspect the "New Body" will remove many limitations since Earth is Physical and spirits are in heaven. The spirit man is also a body so everything is in tact, not sure what it would look like to use though..

Mike.

I think our bodies will be like Jesus' was. He was raised from the dead, ascended to the Father, and then appeared to those He wanted to appear to. Thomas, touched Him for sure and I imagine some of the others did as well. He said He was flesh and bone, but He could do things the regular earthly body cannot. And He ate and drank with them.
And then they watched Him ascend into the clouds.

 

[Brother Mike]

I think our bodies will be like Jesus' was. He was raised from the dead, ascended to the Father, and then appeared to those He wanted to appear to. Thomas, touched Him for sure and I imagine some of the others did as well. He said He was flesh and bone, but He could do things the regular earthly body cannot. And He ate and drank with them.
And then they watched Him ascend into the clouds.

Well, Jesus with His new body (John said when he shall appear we shall be like Him) was able to zip to Earth and zip back. Walk through doors, eat and be solid. Seems to be a lot of ability to zip back and fourth from heaven to earth. Urk asked what will we have to walk around in if we died right now without the bodily resurrection, but with the Lord. There is a bodily resurrection which death is finally put under the Lord's feet being the Last enemy, we given a real physical body (Our old one with better features)

The only thing I have is peoples accounts of visiting heaven. Everyone looks like everyone so our spirit is us, but I don't know.

Mike.

 

[Guest]

[MENTION=7377]Brother Mike[/MENTION] two more questions..

1. Do you think after we die, being with the Lord is instant? Any scripture?
2. Does our spirit go to be with the Lord, or does our soul also go too? You had mentioned the brain?

Blessings.

 

[JLB]

[MENTION=7377]Brother Mike[/MENTION] two more questions..

1. Do you think after we die, being with the Lord is instant? Any scripture?
2. Does our spirit go to be with the Lord, or does our soul also go too? You had mentioned the brain?

Blessings.

6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:6-8

JLB

 

[Guest]

And then they watched Him ascend into the clouds.

I saw this on The Bible epic miniseries. Do you have scripture about this, his prophets watching him ascend. I would feel honored to read. Ty [MENTION=90220]JLB[/MENTION] Blessings.

 

[Brother Mike]

1. Do you think after we die, being with the Lord is instant? Any scripture?
2. Does our spirit go to be with the Lord, or does our soul also go too? You had mentioned the brain?

Blessings.

Sorry Urk, I will try to be more complete for you.

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We are Spirits, our Soul is our thinking, emotions, mind, personality. We live in a body to move around on earth in.

Heb_4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The Word of God divides our mind, soul, thinking, from what is in our spirit man. The Holy Spirit speaks to our spirit, the Word separates our thoughts, from what our spirit knows. The word helps us compare what is coming from God through our spirit and what we are just thinking. It keeps the information separate. If we don't keep our spirit fed with the Word, then our own thinking is hard to distinguish from what is coming from out spirit, and it's through our spirit the Holy Spirit speaks to us.

Soul:

Soul had two applications in the Bible. One a whole person.

Jas_5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Lost souls, and happy soul, and so fourth.

Soul also is our mind, or personality.

Jas_1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

The Word of God contains power in it to save our souls. Our souls are not saved when we make Jesus Lord, but we are told to be transformed by the renewing of our minds and prove what is the will of God. James says the Word can save our souls or get our thinking in line with what our spirit man is getting from the Lord. If we walk after the spirit we will not fulfill the lust and desires of the flesh. Our born again spirit with the Holy Spirit can be in control of our own thinking and desires.

Saving our soul......

Heb_10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Paul here I believe believed that it was completely possible to save our soul and retain everything about us we are now.

So, this is what Paul believed that the soul will be with us and retain everything we are in Heaven.

1. Do you think after we die, being with the Lord is instant? Any scripture?

Php 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

Rom_14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

If there was "soul sleep" these folks would not be crying out. They are with the Lord and waiting.

2Co_5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

So to not be in your body, you are present with the Lord. No soul sleep!!! that is new age stuff.

Mike.