The rapture keeps coming back

[for_his_glory]

You may read up on this.I say start with Matthew henry,Adam clarke

I would say start by asking the Holy Spirit teach you through what the scriptures speak to us.

 

[Edward]

Jocor/...This passage is about the resurrection. The indignation refers to Yahweh's wrath against the wicked during the Day of Yahweh (Day of the LORD). That Day begins after the Great Tribulation ends (Mt 24:29; Joel 2:31). The people of Isa 26:20 are poetically hiding in their graves..../

I'll chew on that and read 'em when I get home and edit in a reply...

 

[jasonc]

I would say start by asking the Holy Spirit teach you through what the scriptures speak to us.

Again, I did that.I was lead to them by Him.I was a die hard futurist.Reba and Hitch and Stormgrove? Taught me.context is everything.

 

[for_his_glory]

We are taught that we will suffer for Christ, however, there's this curious verse...

Luke 21:36

Both sides of the rapture debate can make a very good case for their views. I'm on the fence about it.

Luke 21:36 says to watch and pray always that we may be accountable to escape all these things that shall come to pass. (Nothing about a pretrib there, but to only be accountable so Gods wrath does not fall on us).

We escape all these things of Gods great wrath against those who refuse to repent during the last and greatest tribulation the earth has ever seen and nor never see again, Matthew 24:21, because we are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30.

Jesus spoke in Matthew 24:15 that when we see the abomination of desolation that Daniel spoke of as who ever reads what Daniel spoke of let them understand what he said, that we are to stand in the Holy place. The Holy place is our faith that is Christ Jesus as we stand before Him as He shelters us from all that has to come before He returns for us.

 

[jocor]

We are taught that we will suffer for Christ, however, there's this curious verse...

Luke 21:36

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.​

One way to escape all these things that are coming is through death.

Isa 57:1 The righteous perisheth (via death), and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away (via death) from the evil to come.​

 

[for_his_glory]

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.​

One way to escape all these things that are coming is through death.

Isa 57:1 The righteous perisheth (via death), and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away (via death) from the evil to come.​

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
I find it kinda selfish that we would rather want to escape before Gods final wrath on the nations as it would be a greater pleasure if we could witness Christ to others and see them saved in the end before Jesus returns.

 

[Malachi]

The rapture keeps coming back

The Rapture is not supposed to keep coming back. Once you're gone, there's no coming back!

 

[reba]

I would say start by asking the Holy Spirit teach you through what the scriptures speak to us.

When people say things like this i wonder why? Because most people who say this consider their words as teaching, which is no different then Matt henry, gill, wiggleworth and any other commentary

 

[jasonc]

When people say things like this i wonder why? Because most people who say this consider their words as teaching, which is no different then Matt henry, gill, wiggleworth and any other commentary

Thank you

 

[Malachi]

The Rapture is a relatively recent idea in church history, as well as a minor theme in Scripture:

The only response to this is "Good Grief!" "Relatively recent" and "a minor theme". Looks like someone has been promoting anti-Rapture propaganda, and someone else is buying it.

Since the Rapture has been embedded in Scripture for over 2,000 years, it is definitely not recent. And since the Rapture is the CULMINATION OF SALVATION for the saints, it is a very major theme for God.

God takes vile sinners and saves them from Hell. But His ultimate goal is to make them exact replicas of Christ (not "little gods" as some teach falsely but perfected and glorified saints). That is each and every one shall be perfected. So how in the world can this be "a minor theme in Scripture"? Someone has no clue about God's plans and purposes.

 

[Malachi]

If the rapture is real, then when does it happen?

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15).

 

[reba]

Different opinions are just that different opinions ... lets not accuse others of not studying because our opinions are different

 

[jocor]

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
I find it kinda selfish that we would rather want to escape before Gods final wrath on the nations as it would be a greater pleasure if we could witness Christ to others and see them saved in the end before Jesus returns.

The death I mentioned is brought upon the righteous by Yahweh, not via suicide if that is what you meant. The Almighty takes the righteous away from the evil to come. He does not rapture us away, but takes us away in death. Many saints will die in the Great Tribulation until a predetermined number have died (Rev 6:11). Then the Day of Yahweh will begin as He pours out His wrath upon the wicked.

 

[Malachi]

He does not rapture us away, but takes us away in death.

This is totally incorrect and actually controverts Scripture. Death is the Enemy, and the last enemy to be destroyed will be Death (1 Cor 15:26).

 

[Malachi]

Different opinions are just that different opinions ... lets not accuse others of not studying because our opinions are different

Reba,
That is an exhortation, not an accusation. Evidently this matter has not been studied through (as seen in some of the posts). And if Bible truth is merely a matter of opinion, then we are of all men most miserable.

 

[reba]

you and i disagree so my response to you should be you have not studied.? No we come to different conclusions

We are not all in the same school grade ... some Christians will need milk until He returns.. Some may look at much of His Word in an intellectual slant... Some think every body must learn Greek.. as if God didn't we would speak english
Besides that we need to adhere to the TOS around here...

 

[jocor]

This is totally incorrect and actually controverts Scripture. Death is the Enemy, and the last enemy to be destroyed will be Death (1 Cor 15:26).

It is appointed unto all men to die once (Heb 9:27a). Yahweh gives life and He takes it away (De 32:39). Yahweh can choose to hasten the precious death of one of His saints in order to spare them from the evil to come.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The only response to this is "Good Grief!" "Relatively recent" and "a minor theme". Looks like someone has been promoting anti-Rapture propaganda, and someone else is buying it.

Since the Rapture has been embedded in Scripture for over 2,000 years, it is definitely not recent. And since the Rapture is the CULMINATION OF SALVATION for the saints, it is a very major theme for God.

God takes vile sinners and saves them from Hell. But His ultimate goal is to make them exact replicas of Christ (not "little gods" as some teach falsely but perfected and glorified saints). That is each and every one shall be perfected. So how in the world can this be "a minor theme in Scripture"? Someone has no clue about God's plans and purposes.

Hi Malachi, I am the one who should be saying "good grief".
The rapture you are talking about in Thessalonians is nearly 2,000 years, not over 2,000 years.
Yes, saying over 2,000 years does sound more impressive, but are you trying to impress here or teach what you believe to be the truth?

The word rapture, or rapio, or rapturo, is Latin.
It's from the Latin Vulgate.
It was written by Jerome in the year 405.
It is hardly likely anyone used the word before then.

Except for one questionable sentence in the writings of psudo-dionysius about the year 500, no one talked about such a doctrine until 1830.
With the lapse of seventeen centuries with no teaching by Bible scholars or our esteemed church fathers, it certainly must be viewed as an obstacle to accepting it's reliability.

Information obtained from the book "Essentials of New Testament Doctrine" by Ernest L. Martin


more later

 

[JLB]

Again, I did that.I was lead to them by Him.I was a die hard futurist.Reba and Hitch and Stormgrove? Taught me.context is everything.

Rightly dividing the word, also helps.

 

[JLB]

If the rapture is real, then when does it happen?

At His coming, and just a moment after the resurrection.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

The time marker for the rapture is just after the resurrection, whereby the dead in Christ, and those who are alive and remain, will be caught up together.

Caught up together.

Now all you have to do is study to see when the resurrection will take place.

We know it's at His coming.

When is coming and the resurrection take place?

Here is a clue about His coming.

Every eye will see Him.

7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. Revelation 1:7

As lightning strikes in the east and is seen in the west, so shall it be at the coming of the Son of man.

For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Matthew 24:27

All the tribes of the earth we see Him.

30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30


If this all happened before the tribulation, and everyone saw the real Christ, who would follow the antichrist?


Jesus personally destroys the lawless one with the brightness of His coming.


8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8


His coming is not invisible.





JLB